Just read your post, thanks for looking at the sitch from that angle. I can see so many positives for you guys, oh and don't worry about this R talk possibly happening - whatever is discussed his actions are already saying he wants back in IMO.
I wish I could step back from my own sitch & work out what is happening sometimes, but it's too close to home I suppose & it doesn't come so easily, I guess that's why this forum works so well.
Had to pick this out...
Quote:
The one thing I didn't mention which is of significance to this trip is that I separated from my H the first time ever 2 years ago here in this very town. So yeah, this is the site of the original 'car crash'.
Well I think you two might have put a few demons from that occassion to the sword & replaced them with some new, positive ones
Quote:
We stayed up playing board games and having some good laughs.
This is just awesome & I am so jealous, I really miss stuff like that.
Keep having fun & stay positive, we are definitely rooting for you!!
Bill
Me 34 W 32 D 9 S 6 M: 9 years T: 12 Bomb: 02/11/12 EA/PA: 12/17/11 - ongoing Moved out: Oct 2012 Joint Filed for D: 2/11/13
I hope everything is working out for you and you continue to be the best woman you can be! I'm so jealous that your H wants to talk about your R!!! You are so strong! I yearn for my H to want to talk about our R...I guess we're at the 6 month mark of him still wanting out!
Best wishes to you!!!!
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!) EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12 H introduces OW to his fam: June H moves ALL stuff out: July
Thank you so much for your support and encouragement! I really really appreciate it.
So, H left and we had two days of talks. My head is about to explode, haha! I feel utter exasperation and frustration as well - I'm eating a sandwich even though I'm not hungry to get some tension released!!
So, the talk was simply more of the same old, same old. Again, nothing I hadn't heard before, and him looking for reasarrances that certain things would not ever happen again. For example, that he should be able to go out whenever he feels like it and for however long he wants and that I should be ok with that. Well, I am not and will not pretend like I am. I deserve and expect common courtesy at the very least. So, that's where I stand on that.
Seems the whole marriage is breaking down on the area of social life.
I am beyond furious. We had such a good first 4-5 days here, such a wonderful time. But noooooo. He puts it down to us being on our best behaviour. I said to him, "You are speaking for yourself. Not me. I am real. I let myself feel and let myself have a good time." He didn't say anything to that.
He says he is fearful of me getting angry and upset about various things - again - related to social life. He's afraid of the patterns starting up. He said he's also afraid to open up again just to be slammed down.
I said to him that fear only begets more fear and acting on anger and fear doesn't go anywhere. There is always regret when decisions are based on fear and anger. There is a lot about us that is good and that works very well, in fact so well that to base breaking down a marriage on social life, is insanity.
Everything I said, he had a counter for it. In the end, I said "I feel I can't win. No matter what I say or what I explain in terms of how I felt, my own insecurities and fears - it makes no difference to you. You seem to be set in your mind in which case I'm not sure why you came here. I feel deceived."
He explained that he came to just see how he felt and to talk.
I did much of the talking. In fact, when he said he wanted to talk and that we should talk, that's all he would say. I would stay quiet because I wanted to hear him talk. In the end, he wouldn't talk. So, I did the vast majority of the talking.
I reminded him that I brought up us dating a while ago and that he immediately dismissed it. So, I was all out of ideas on how to move forward.
So at the end before he left, I said, "Ok, so we are back in London and what then? More of the same?" He said that the dating idea is a possibility, but that he wants no expectations, and wants it to be open.
I'm not happy with 'open'. I'd rather wipe the slate clean and start fresh. I didn't tell him that, but that is how I feel. I know myself well enough to know that I am not going to be happy with that and I will build resentment - and then I might as well call it quits.
My mother made an interesting observation about how stuck he gets. For example, he went fishing everyday. Everyday, he used the same size lure. Everyday, he caught nothing. My dad said to him, "Next time, go with a simple line and a piece of bread, and lower your expectations of what size of fish you will catch." My dad caught a fish that way and he caught a small fish. My H didn't change anything and he ended up catching nothing. My mom said then to me, "See how stuck he gets in his mind? He can't even change the size of the lure. That's the way he is now in this situation."
Despite examples and evidence, he'll carry on doing the same thing over and over again. Cheeseless tunnels.
I have a few more days here on my own. I have promised myself that I will make a decision by the time I leave. I think I will not do any dating with him, but will do my own dating now. I won't go to the lawyers just yet - still want to let a bit of time pass before I make such a major step. But I will start dating others as I don't see much changing on this front. I feel a bit more settled with that idea.
I don't have a desire to be in touch with him now.
yc, i respect your decisions. it sounds as if you've made up your mind to carry on without him.
however, if there's still a chance, i wanted to ask you about your conversation with him.
in the above example, it seems that when he spoke about his fears, your response was to invalidate them. he spoke, you pushed back and advised him, to an extent, his fears were made not valid and not justified. it's frustrating when someone does this.
Everything I said, he had a counter for it. In the end, I said "I feel I can't win. No matter what I say or what I explain in terms of how I felt, my own insecurities and fears - it makes no difference to you. You seem to be set in your mind in which case I'm not sure why you came here. I feel deceived."
you felt it, too. the back and forth of justification gets people nowhere. there is no "winning" by justifying or invalidating, only by listening and empathizing and being "open" to his feelings and he to yours.
M:63 H:53 S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23 M:15 T:16
Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways." H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12 12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing
i feel like i'll eventually be where you are in your sitch. it's good that you are starting to move ahead, not forcing anything or going to the lawyer, but starting to move on. it gives me hope.
good luck with everything!
M:29 H:30 M:2.5 years T:13 years No kids EA:11/2011 PA:01/2012 Bomb:02/2012 H starting another EA, I had enough and we seperate: 03/08/2012 Trying to decide what I want for a change...
scaredsilly, thanks for your feedback. I agree. I was not entirely validating of his feelings. I tried very hard though. I did agree with many things he said along the way but I know it was not enough. I wasn't 100% validating, nor was I even 70% validating. I would say I was 40% validating - which is not enough.
I realised this too at some point in our conversations and searched my heart for how to be more validating. All the things I've read and all the things I've practiced - honestly my mind drew a blank. I couldn't even recall a snippet of advice on 'how to validate'. I remember repeating back to him things he would say to me - which was part of validation. It wasn't enough though, I agree, and nor did it seem to be enough for him.
I did ask him what he wanted from me, what kind of assurances he was looking for, how could I say that to him other than what I had already said. I was asking him how I needed to communicate with him for him to understand. He just said he wanted assurances in words, but more so in action. I then asked how in action if we spend little time together. Plus, we had 5 wonderful days here now together - truly wonderful. Doesn't that count? He didn't have much to say about that.
In my mind, the thing was going in circles.
Out of the blue, he even brought up some time AGES and AGES and long forgotten ago when I got irritated when he would pull the 20 questions scenario on me. There was a brief period of that. He asked me why I got irritated with him.
I was blank. Could barely remember the time of that. He pressed me for an answer.
In exasperation, I said, "Ok, now you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. I can barely remember that time as it was so long ago and it was all resolved and sorted way back when." He continued to want an answer and finally I said, "I really don't remember that time all that clearly. I can't give you an answer for that now. We cleared it up back then."
In my mind, I thought, OMG!! This is never going to end. He's not looking for a way out of the misery, he wants to get stuck in the misery! He keeps piling it on - and why? To justify? To understand? To move on? To do what? Why?
Anway, I do agree - I need to improve my validation skills a lot more. Lessons anyone?
Ok, update - Scaredsilly, you will like this a lot!
I just had a grand opportunity to validate just now.
My H called when he arrived back home. I wasn't expecting that. We chatted a bit about bills that arrived and other little practical things that needed taking care of.
Then he asked me how I was. I said I was fine. I asked him, and he went quiet. I could hear him cry, and my heart just opened up to him and I stayed quiet out of respect. He finally managed to say he felt sad and he missed everyone.
He said that if he comes back to me and the same complaints start happening, that he will just kick himself hard for being such a fool, but if he breaks it off and goes away that he will also kick himself for not trying again.
I said that I know I have work to do still, and that I am trying and doing my best. I validated him that I have not been perfect in my delivery of my complaints and he has every right to be angry and upset. I agreed with him that I was not a good communicator, and that I was sorry for that. That I hear him loud and clear that he just cannot take my outbursts. I said again that I am working on that and I know that I have more work to do, and will continue to work on myself.
He said that I was good on the phone call front up until I moved to my new place and then after that some of my phone calls to him were negative and difficult. I said I agree that I made some bad calls, and once again, I am sorry and working hard on that. I asked how many calls - and he said 4 were difficult. I said, OK, that for the next 3 months I promise not to call him with negative/difficult messages and that it is a goal I can work towards. He said it was the unpredictability of the phone calls more than anything. Yes, that I can do that as a promise to him so that he can relax and he can expect only positive phone calls from me.
He liked that idea.
It was then that I realised that I can set these kinds of benchmarks and I like these types of goals. It's concrete and doable, and I can feel I will achieve something solid.
We then talked about other little things, and then the phone started running out of juice so we had to hang up.
It makes me think that maybe what he was doing here was testing me. Maybe he was pushing all my buttons to see when/if I would crack and have an outburst beyond all proportions. The thought did cross my mind briefly. I also remember my mother's sage advice that no matter what happens, she said, don't have an outburst. No matter what, she said, don't shout. She said to me, "He will try to get you to react. Just don't do it. Don't give him a leg to stand on."
And you know what, as frustrated, as exasperated and as angry as I felt, I did not once shout. NOT ONCE!! My emotions were running high these last two 'talk only' days, and what I found I did was go REALLY quiet and usually cry because the energy was so intense at times. I have never been the kind to walk away anyway, so that is not an issue with me. It was an interesting development.
Good for you, im sure most of us who are apart from their spouses are waiting on that call. I too deal with outbursts and have worked dilligently to ensure they won't happen, but our spouses have to give us the chance to show them that.
Just make sure when you set a goal and especially when you make that goal known to your spouse that you achieve it at all costs. The absolute worst thing that they can see is failure on something as small as a couple of months when their looking toward returning for a lifetime.
YC, I'm just catching up on your sitch. I see lots of positive things happening for you!
I also like the benchmark idea, but I don't think you should tell your H when you decided on them. It's basically telling him that you've changed. Just make the changes, and believe me he'll notice.
Just keep doing what you're doing. I see good things coming!
