Hello, I just found this board lastnight. Seperation has been on my mind for a few weeks now and after discovering that my C wants H to read Divorce Busting, I'm concerned that maybe D is inevitable in our situation. I don't want a D, I do want things to change... but I'm not sure that it's a realistic possibility. I'm afraid that we might be getting set up for a huge bill in councelling and that we'll both be beating our heads against the wall.
I'll try to be as brief as possible. Our sex life was wonderful in the beginning. Then shortly after his marriage proposal my drive gradually diminished. For years I thought I had a hormone problem or issues with my body image, even though I felt comfortable with myself. Very confusing. I decided enough was enough last month and started seeing a C to figure out why I have such a LD and no desire to even try to initiate.
Things were going well, and I was progressing! H and I had some excellent heart to hearts and he finally seemed to understand and really hear what I was saying. He apologized and even cried, vowing to never hurt me again. We agreed that I would initiate from now on until I was healed and could take his initiations in the proper context.
I was able to initiate twice in one week, which hadn't happened in years. For some reason, this triggered H to jump to the conclusion that I was "better" and reverted back to initiating. After a few nights of my rejections, he did what he vowed not to. Just as he's done numerous times over the years, he waited until I was asleep and then had sex with my limp, unwilling body. I woke up and was so devastated. I jumped out of bed and was shocked that he could be so selfish and totally erase what progress I had made.
He is now seeing my C and it's become clear that it's going to take a long time to repair damages. How am I supposed to try to save our M and work on my LD when I can't even imagine ML anymore. How can he ever make me trust him again? How can he be so sure that he can make me fall in love with him again?
I'm so dead. I'm here for our young children and because I can't afford to go anywhere. I love him, but I honestly feel it's just because I don't want a D and don't want my children to have a split family. The thought of H with an OW makes perfect sense, as he needs someone with a HD, but at the same time, the thought makes my skin crawl when my children enter the picture.
Thank you for reading. I'm sorry for being so long-winded. I just don't know what I'm doing and hope to hear from anyone who's been in similar circumstances or can help me forgive and forget.
Ouch. Reading your story made me cringe. Partly because I have been guilty of "feeling up" my wife when I thought she was awake (at least partially) and consenting, and it turned out she was actually asleep. I apologized profusely but I don't know if she believed me or not. Is there any possibility that he thought you might have consented? I say this because, as I started to touch my wife, she made sounds of enjoyment, and her body clearly was responding. I reacted to the sounds. Mainly because the sound I usually hear when I touch her is "NO!", but that's another story. Anyway, I just wanted to ask you to make sure if he knew you were asleep, or if he thought you might be at least partially awake and consenting. If he knew you were asleep, then that's really bad. As for what to do next...I think I'll let somebody else chime in.
Quote: Is there any possibility that he thought you might have consented?
Not at all, unfortunately. I am a very deep sleeper and this happens when I've clearly not had any interest in sex at bedtime. He is aware of the fact that "feeling me up" turns me off. I was dateraped (and gangbanged by my date's friends) as a teenager, so sex is delicate for me. I must be a willing participant, otherwise I get defensive and shut down. This is especially hard to deal with because the daterape ocurred with use of a pill, so I was in and out of consciousness... much like being asleep...
He has explained that over the years he's been reading all he can on how he can arouse me, etc. He thought I didn't love him anymore. The problem is, as I can see it right now (without having read DB yet), is his love language must be physical and I'm not sure what mine is. I used to think it was touching but I haven't really touched him in years; not like I used to when I was in love with him.
Thank you Hairdog, I appreciate your support. H is aware of the seriousness of his actions, NOW. He says he's willing to do whatever it takes, and I believe him. Our M has been good outside of our bedroom. He has always treated me as his equal, except for this very dark "habit" he has. I honestly want to believe he will change. At the same time, I'm scared that deep down he doesn't respect me. How else could he treat me like that? Am I foolish to try. Can this kind of damage be undone?
BTW it's not like I was rejecting him every single time. Before our kids came along, we had sex at least once weekly. After the kids though, we'd go a few months, and just as I'd be getting close to initiating, he would "wake me up". It's rather difficult to feel like initiating when you're in a pattern of trying to ignore hints because you know that sex follows. What I'm trying to say is that i stopped cuddling with him in bed, kissing him goodnight, etc. because if and whenever I did, he thought it meant I wanted to ML.
I just checked out that sexual aversion link from another thread. Very interesting. I'm going to read through it again and try the exercises.
You say you have a good marriage outside of bed. Don't throw that away, especially for the children. I have a LD wife and I have been in the same boat as Hairdog, where my wife has fallen asleep during foreplay and I did not know it. Then she wakes up startled and angry. I will rub her feet and legs and back and she will act like it is slowly turning her on, when in fact it is puting her to sleep, or into a near sleep state, and us poor guys don't know it!! Then we get blamed for trying to have sex when we thought we were turning our ladies ON! Wrong! So maybe give him the benefit of the doubt.
You need counselling for the rape, and marital counselling as well. After you do the sexual aversion routine, here is a link for how to change "Willingness" for sex into "Desire" for sex. Read the whole thing, it links to 8 other pages. Change "Willingness for Sex" into "Desire for sex".
Let me tell you from another HD mans perspective, the MOST important thing you can ever do for your husband is to INITIATE sex with him, it will give him the greatest feeling he can possible get. Most HD men have one primary goal in life, to be DESIRED by their LOVER.
Another helpful hint, everytime you reject his sexual advances, he will interpret that as a rejection of HIM PERSONALLY. It is better to tell him when and where rather then to reject him.
CeMar: I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt for the past 6 years! After so many times of having his wife wake up in a rage, don't you think that staying in the marriage qualifies? Am I supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt yet again, when he did it a few days after apologizing for it and vowing to never do it again?
I AM in therapy. I started seeing a counsellor last month because I thought my LD to ND was completely my problem and wanted to get help so I could be a complete wife. I've been fighting bouts of depression feeling extremely guilty for rejecting H. Thank you for the "willingness vs. desire" link. Considering my past abuse, I've done remarkebly well and DO desire sex when I feel wanted, loved and respected. Our sex life was wonderful and now that I look back, I know that his disrespecting me this way is what triggered my LD to ND. I know you mean well CeMar, but your defense of H and pointing out my problems makes me think you need to re-read what I've posted and try to imagine where I'm coming from.
Honeypot: Yes, he is awake and I'm fast asleep when this happens. In the past, he's said that he can't help it. He's said that he's half asleep and didn't realize he was doing it. He's even said that he hoped he would turn me on and that I'd wake up and join in. He says he feels disgusted with himself now and that it just isn't like him to do such a thing to someone he loves. He tells me I'm everything to him and everything he ever wanted in a wife. He misses me and wants our intimacy back.
Now that he's finally aware of how bad his behaviour has been, and how damaging it is to our sex life, he's committed to getting help and changing. I just wanted to start this discussion to get a feel for what spouses of any drive make of this.
Quote: I have a LD wife and I have been in the same boat as Hairdog, where my wife has fallen asleep during foreplay and I did not know it. Then she wakes up startled and angry.
This just jumped out at me. I think part of the problem (in general) is the fact that H only seems to engage in foreplay in bed. I've told H many times how much I would love to fall asleep to his caresses without any sexual pressure, but he has seldom ever allowed me to do so without regretting it. He says that he gets turned on by caressing me and can't help it. To him, he sees caressing me to sleep as foreplay... while I on the other hand, have always seen it as tenderly caressing me; not necessarily foreplay. If the LD wakes up upset, doesn't that just make sense?
LD: I think you need to firmly and lovingly set boundaries with him. If he is caressing you in bed, and you do not want it to turn sexual, then tell him RIGHT THEN "This feels so good. If I fall asleep, please don't take it personally and please let me continue to sleep."
I think that he takes your rejection of him so intensely personally (all HD people do, this is not your H being strange) that he is living in a state of rage. He acts out in this way, while you are asleep, both because he NEEDS you so badly to respond sexually to him and also because he is trying to get back at you for your rejection.
I don't think anyone here is trying to defend your H's actions--they are despicable. But we are trying to help you see his side of the sexual equation. It is so helpful to do that...to step out of your own shoes and really LOOK and LISTEN to the other side and see if you can gain any insight. Right now I think you are so mad at him that you are not willing or able to see his side of anything.
I don't know how you can forgive him for years of this selfish behavior. You will have to find it in yourself if you want this marriage to work out. GOOD LUCK with that endeavor; we are all hoping that it turns out okay and we are here to listen.
