Am in Greece, and I am feeling all kinds of things. Last night I was so pissed off that he didn't call just to discuss whether we are going to the village we are meant to go to today or tomorrow. This is so typical of him at the moment - doesn't know how to pick up the phone and SPEAK! Is this person actually human?
OK. I'm fed up. Can you tell?
I am not sure how this thing will go. I've had growing anger myself this past week and am rapidly losing patience. I'm beginning to entertain that it is ok that he takes all the time in the world, and I am not going to stick around. I'm getting used to the idea of being another statistic.
I can understand your frustrations, (here's my but) but don't detach yourself too much, sometimes people judge a scenario wrongly, like your H might have thought if I make a call it might feel like I'm being annoying, I'll just wait for her to call. Just a plausible example of many possibilities.
What I'm saying is, that it is normal to feel impatient, just don't act on it & leave yourself open to possibilities of positive interactions without expectations & see what happens.
Remember if you are closing the door to possibilities, you'll never know what might or might not have happened.
You must, must, must enjoy yourself though - that's an order!!
Bill
Me 34 W 32 D 9 S 6 M: 9 years T: 12 Bomb: 02/11/12 EA/PA: 12/17/11 - ongoing Moved out: Oct 2012 Joint Filed for D: 2/11/13
YC - I agree with everyone - I hope you can find your center and enjoy the beautiful surroundings (and the FOOD!!). Smell the metaphorical roses, if you will. You can do it Can you enjoy the trip without thinking about H's motives/actions?
Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone. I guess I was venting. SS, I didn't call him because when I do he sounds bothered. I've learned not to call him lately. I also wanted to see how far he would take this 'no calling' thing. In the end what happened, was that on the day that they were all arriving (he was coincidentally travelling with my mother, brother, and another family member on the same flight), my mother called me. Yep, my mother called me on her mobile and said, "Here, let me give the phone to H." i found it to be silly for my mother to have to call me just to hand the phone over. Later that day when they all arrived, I called him to ask about something, and he was sounding ever so nice and happy and open. I was like, Wow, this is a change! And then he realised (and said) he thought I was my mother. I said, "Oh, that's why you are sounding so nice to me." He didn't say anything, but carried on being jolly and open.
So, anyway, everyone arrived and in good spirits. We had a GREAT weekend. So, very good. He was being his normal self and it was just lovely to be around that. I too was very relaxed and happy.
There was no touching or physical affection on the first day. The second day, once again - really lovely, and enjoyable - almost back to our old active and bouncy dynamic. At night on the second day, he held my hand in bed - something he used to do a lot when we were together. Slowly, affection was rising.... I definitely recognized my H again. We talked and discussed everything as we always did, and I felt we had such a good relationship. My own feelings were right at the surface. In fact, I was beginning to wonder why at all we had split up - great friendship, dynamic, attraction, and I could feel his own feelings and love coming up to the surface too. He even said a couple of times to people here, "I am with my wife." I was like WOW.
I could see us dating again back home, and continuing to have a good time.
Again, a really fantastic active third morning. We ML twice and it has been fantastic.
So we went out fishing, and had a great morning again. When we got back, we sat down with my parents and had a long morning talk about this that and the other. After that discussion, something changed in him. He grew quiet, and stayed that way for the rest of the day. He retreated into his cave, and I could feel him thinking, thinking, thinking. I asked him if he wanted to talk about anything, and all he said was, "I'm just pondering." Subsequently, his affection decreased and he was 'separate' again.
The only thing I could think of which might have set him off was that we were talking about my cousin's upcoming wedding in Italy. My parents asked me if I was going and I said I really should. I didn't ask him if he wanted to go simply because I don't know what our official status is yet (we haven't talked about any of his issues at all - there has been no R talk whatsoever). Other than that, we were just talking politics, the economy and so forth. Nothing personal or major in any way that I could see.
I don't feel it as deeply (his change of moods) as I used to. He was always somewhat moody, but this was a little more than usual. So anyway, that is a nice surprise. I remain affectionate, but it does make it hard when it's not being reciprocated.
It is Monday now and we have 5 days of time together. I am making the most of it, and we shall see.
Thank you all for your encouragement and words of wisdom I'll let you know how it goes.
Sounds like a lot of good stuff is happening on your trip to Greece.
A couple of things that you mentioned about your H and your family in that post and in a few previous posts, got me thinking a little.
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on the day that they were all arriving (he was coincidentally travelling with my mother, brother, and another family member on the same flight), my mother called me. Yep, my mother called me on her mobile and said, "Here, let me give the phone to H." i found it to be silly for my mother to have to call me just to hand the phone over.
You are right about this not being a coincidence, your H travelling with your mother. If I remember right your H has had dinner at least once or twice with your mother recently, so he's rekindled that R with your mother, why?
IMO he's laying some groundwork, now it might not be the conventional way or type of groundwork that you'd hope for, but he's doing a couple of things here.
1. By getting close to your mother, he'll feel accepted within the family group dynamic, family occassions spent together will be more enjoyable (he won't think he's being judged or over-analysed).
2. I really think he sees this as a step to getting closer to you, and that he can leverage mum's influence to move things along (positively move things along)without any R talk.
OK now back to the trip
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There was no touching or physical affection on the first day. The second day, once again - really lovely, and enjoyable - almost back to our old active and bouncy dynamic. (a slow start - but progress every day)At night on the second day, he held my hand in bed - something he used to do a lot when we were together. Slowly, affection was rising.... I definitely recognized my H again. We talked and discussed everything as we always did, and I felt we had such a good relationship. My own feelings were right at the surface. In fact, I was beginning to wonder why at all we had split up - great friendship, dynamic, attraction, and I could feel his own feelings and love coming up to the surface too. He even said a couple of times to people here, "I am with my wife." I was like WOW.
Yankee!! I can't emphasise the significance of this... This is your H saying to Joe public, we are an item, this is my wife - he was happy, you were happy - things were working out organically on their own - no R talk - this is awesome!!
I could see us dating again back home, and continuing to have a good time.
Again, a really fantastic active third morning. We ML twice and it has been fantastic.
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When we got back, we sat down with my parents and had a long morning talk about this that and the other. After that discussion, something changed in him. He grew quiet, and stayed that way for the rest of the day. He retreated into his cave, and I could feel him thinking, thinking, thinking. I asked him if he wanted to talk about anything, and all he said was, "I'm just pondering." Subsequently, his affection decreased and he was 'separate' again.
The only thing I could think of which might have set him off was that we were talking about my cousin's upcoming wedding in Italy. My parents asked me if I was going and I said I really should. I didn't ask him if he wanted to go simply because I don't know what our official status is yet (we haven't talked about any of his issues at all - there has been no R talk whatsoever).
OK Yankee, you need to put H's shoes on for a minute and look at what actions he's been taking. It's really important for him to feel included within your family, he invited himself round for dinner, happy to take a long flight with your mother etc.
Things are going great on this trip, it feels like you are back together in some ways, for your husband it also feels like he's accepted again & part of the family group... Then wham!!
A future family wedding is discussed in Italy and you put the brakes on and excluded him, because you haven't had verbal confirmation in an R talk where you stand.
He must have been scratching his head thinking, 'I thought things were going great, maybe I read it wrong'. Now his head is focused on that instead of enjoying the moment, because the future in the form of an event was discussed & he wasn't in the picture.
To change this picture, and if you want your H to go to that wedding anyway, bring up the conversation again... but play it safe & bring it up when you are having a meal with your mother together & just act casual & say something like, 'It will be lovely, hey you can take me out for some real Italian food H'.
This way you aren't directly inviting him, it's a familiarity that will give your H some needed reassurances, which if it were me I would respond positively.
R talks are all well & good, but actions mean much more, you might feel like things are being brushed under the carpet at the moment, but don't worry about that. You need to enjoy this moment - make your trip a positive memory & deal with the R talk if you need to later.
Hope the rest of the trip goes well.
Bill
Me 34 W 32 D 9 S 6 M: 9 years T: 12 Bomb: 02/11/12 EA/PA: 12/17/11 - ongoing Moved out: Oct 2012 Joint Filed for D: 2/11/13
Thanks so much for the feedback! Yes, he likes my parents and has gone for dinner a couple of times with them recently.
Yes, it does seem to be going very well, and everyday we are connecting in a nonverbal way - as if there is nothing to talk about at all. Back home, he kept saying that he wanted to come on this trip to be able to talk more than anything else. I just hope he leaves feeling like he has resolved a few things without talking about anything. Today I was thinking, Maybe this is the guy way of resolving things - not talking!
So yeah, thank you very much for your support and your objective perspective. Thank you for your suggestion on the Italy wedding. I will bring up the Italy wedding in a casual manner - maybe when we next have a dinner with my parents.
I'm sure by the end of the trip you'll feel like some things have been resolved without discussing them.
I think a lot of guys like dealing with issues this way.
In a way it's like him showing you how he wants things to be and what kinds of interactions make him happy, without talking about them.
When you respond positively and show your happiness - that's so much better than discussing stuff that has caused you both so much pain over the last couple of years.
You are doing good Yankee, it sounds like you are having a great time on this trip - keep us posted!!
Bill
Me 34 W 32 D 9 S 6 M: 9 years T: 12 Bomb: 02/11/12 EA/PA: 12/17/11 - ongoing Moved out: Oct 2012 Joint Filed for D: 2/11/13
I have a bit more time this morning to consider and respond since my H went out fishing on his own while my skin recovers from yesterday's sun.
I was rereading your comments from a couple of days ago and I agree that H is laying the groundwork. And it's been really interesting observe his actions and a relief not to have an ongoing R talk going on. It's a good thing I read, "How to fix your marriage without talking about it". Thank you so much for interpreting his actions into something I can understand, as it is a different kind of language than what women themselves do.
Male and female communication styles are quite different and it's interesting to me now to see them very clearly. These last 7 months - I've been thinking - have helped to clear out some old patterns that weren't working and it feels like starting over again. But, I mustn't count my chickens before they hatch.
So, yesterday - another grand day. Went out boating a bit and he asked simply, "Are you happy?" I said, "Oh yes, I'm really enjoying myself, having a great time!" A few minutes later I said it again, and later in the day again. I was in fact feeling very happy indeed. I love our routine, and we share much of the same attitudes towards a lot of things. We are so well cut out for each other, and I admit, I do feel a lot more relaxed and easygoing than I ever have in the past. I feel more mature. I am sure GALing has helped tremendously with that.
At dinner yesterday we were ordering food. The waiter says, 'Mrs ___" - calling me by my maiden name. It's because the waiter knows my father and so just calls me that. My H picked up on that and said, "Did he just call you Miss or Mrs (maiden name)?" I said, "He called me Mrs maiden name. Why?" My H said, "Because you're a Mrs not a Miss." I said, "Yes, I am a Mrs. I think we have to establish your name here because they all just call us all by my family name, but they also all know you are my dad's son in law and they refer to you that way. I think it's just because they don't know our surname." He seemed satisfied with that.
My dad has been coming here to this town for AT LEAST 30 years, and so everyone knows my dad which makes things simple.
We stayed up playing board games and having some good laughs.
The one thing I didn't mention which is of significance to this trip is that I separated from my H the first time ever 2 years ago here in this very town. So yeah, this is the site of the original 'car crash'.
Can you enjoy the trip without thinking about H's motives/actions?