So much to say, So little room

[RoofTop]

First things first - Too late for pictures. I can't say I fully care. S12 will be almost 13 if not 13 if lawyers get involved and he can easily vouch for what my W took. He's constantly mouthing off about how she took everything, but he calms down when he sees how excited I am about the few new things we've bought together. Yes, We sat on the floor to eat for almost a week since she took everything. She said she'd take the fish tank, but hasn't and I was kind of hoping she would have. Eh....details.

I had spoken to a lawyer for an initial consultation, a lawyer that specializes in protecting fathers. In my state, I'm fudged - period. I document each day that the kids are sleeping in my house, but that's all I can do since she can't make her own car payments so I have to do it and it only further proves she can't support herself. I'm fudged, but it's only money and I can only give what I can give. I found myself thinking about that book - "The Giving Tree" and I finally understood what the story was really about.

My W has this image of me sitting on a pile of money and holding out on her. Eh, go ahead and call your lawyers since you don't believe me. I really could care less at this point. So the retirement fund will get depleted a bit more in order to fix my car and repay the $500 to the utility company I forked out the other day for her. When that's gone, so goes her control over me. You can't squeeze blood from an orange and I have no intention of being anything but cordial to her and explain quite simply that I have no money.

It does totally stink, but I think I should be okay once all of the finances get sorted out and I know what I'm dealing with so I can develop a plan and stick with it. I'm not a control freak, but having ADD and not realizing the role that's played in my life/marriage until recently, I've come to realize that I need to build routines so that I don't get overwhelmed with stuff I forgot about. It really helps me with balance and stress.

Moving on, the kids and i went on a road trip yesterday to go buy furniture several hours away. The cost of a rental car, the dining room set and bedroom set cost less that having to finance a dining room table and chairs here in town. It was totally worth it. I got what I wanted and the kids and I had a great time, even though we spent 9 hours in the car that day. There was no complaining and they got along really great for sitting in a car that long.

W called S12 while we were on our way home. I don't think she was happy since she called the day before to tell me she took a vacation day and the kids would be with her, but I informed her I had taken the day off and told the kids about it a few days back - Thursday they're at my house with me anyway so I felt there was no reason to go into detail on my plans. When W asked him about what we were doing, she went through 20 questions with him. I know she had plans to do something with the kids that would have been more kid friendly, but that's because she wouldn't believe us if we told her that we really had a lot of fun.

S12 told me he wouldn't tell her what we got because it's none of her business and she was getting angry with him and ended the call. S12 is protecting me. He wicked P.O.'ed at his mom. He went on a rant about her for over an hour today. How all she wants is my money ( what money? ) and how he's heard her talking to her friends. He's mad at me for letting her take advantage of me because she's telling him and her friends how I'm the bad guy in all this. That she knows I love her and she's taking advantage of me. He told me that he didn't care about her or what she does with her life because it's all about her and her friends. It was sad to hear him say that, then he said he was going to get us back together. I told him that his cause was noble, but that if his mom and I are ever to come together in the future, I would need to let go and give up on her. I reminded him to never say never.

I'm generally happy as of late since I started getting things for the house. My W does manage to poop on my happy parade still with her hostile tone w/ me. I just have to grin and bare it. I'm a bit thrown off by S12. My W dropped them off at the house the other day so she could pick up a few more things ( as if there's anything left ) and I made an effort to not be there. When I came home, my bedroom door was closed and S12 said he closed it because what I had done to my bedroom was none of her business. I don't even talk about his mom and when I do, I'm not hostile, just indifferent because I know he's worried about me.

You're right though, it's important to maintain my sense of humor. I'm doing pretty good about that. Had a hard time at the in-laws last weekend, feeling like the elephant in the closet. They were very warm and caring and none of us talked about my W or about how I was feeling, but it was just below the surface of conversation regardless of how much I smiled and avoided the subject. Makes me all that much more excited about going back in 2 weeks. I don't want too, but I'm obligated. I will let go and let God sort it out for me as I did this past weekend. It worked out pretty good this last time so I'm sticking with "if was meant to be, it will be", for when I get back up there in a few. Things just kind of work out sometimes and that was not lost on me at all last weekend. Things just seemed to work out better than they had for me in a long time.

[AJM]

and I have no intention of being anything but cordial to her and explain quite simply that I have no money.

Funny, I had the same intentions when mine did this. Very similar (she left the cat she said she'd take, but took much more than we discussed as well). You're right, it's only money. And it is fun to get some new things which also help with the new memories, and so on. It's really a better outcome than it would be otherwise. But I highly suggest you let her figure out the money. Her perspective right now is that she has nothing and you owe her. I'm not saying that's a correct perspective, but it's what she is thinking or will be shortly as the pressure grows. Others are bound to reinforce that at some point. Let her talk to the lawyer. She won't believe you and you'll be wasting your breath.

Your son concerns me. A 13 year old protecting his father - not that you can stop that, but he does need some sort of outlet that allows him to be a kid. You're doing well to show him how to deal with it, but keep an eye on that right?

It does totally stink, but I think I should be okay once all of the finances get sorted out and I know what I'm dealing with so I can develop a plan and stick with it.

Right. Exactly. But it will take a while. The thing about divorce is that people are unreasonable. Once the lawyers get involved, it gets uglier. It's what they do. Generally, you'll both walk away feeling like you didn't get what you "deserved". That's just how it is. But you have a really good approach - it is what it is, now how can I make it better. And it's only money. Keep that approach, and you'll be right as rain before you know it - financially. You might be surprised to see how a PMA helps you in all aspects of life - you may already know

When W asked him about what we were doing, she went through 20 questions with him

funny how they do that. They leave, and still watch us like hawks... Go figure. Mine is getting remarried and as recently as a month ago went out of her way to let me know she knew things about me. Bizarre to me but what do I know? (actually, I know that I need to ignore her until she finally goes away the rest of the way to finish her trip; didn't get that for a long time I would have to be the one to leave; I'm a slow learner

It was sad to hear him say that, then he said he was going to get us back together.

If he means that, then plan on getting him into therapy before too long. A few months or so before the winter holidays. If he's just saying that to express himself, perhaps he'll get things worked out, but I'd plan on getting him to talk to a specialist he can confide in.

Your W is way out of line. No question. Your S should not have to hear her conversations at her hen pecking parties. Your W will find out as soon as you cut the cord and let go, exactly what the blue skies, butterflies, and rainbows she bought into look like. For your son's sake and yours, do it sooner. Don't pay her bills. Don't help her. In any way. Remember how she talks about you and how that looks to your son before you act because it shows him things he will later repeat.

Have a great fourth!

AJ

[RoofTop]

I would agree that my W believes I owe her. I can't deny that for several years, she picked up most of the slack as far as daily expenses are concerned. We didn't often take many trips out of my account. I may not have paid many utilities or groceries over the years, but I never skirted the rent or mortgage. I handled the big monthly bills such as car(s) and house and kids activities. The kids play club sports so I'm in the tank for about $8K a year on S12 alone for one sport. He loves it, so I do it.

I'm not without guilt, but we've covered that already. I did what I did with what little I knew and I don't have regrets. I'm passed that. I sleep fine at night and I don't much think about my W sleeping alone or with someone else. She's a bit of a pill these days so I have no thoughts of wanting.

The money is amusing. I will let her figure it out on her own when we sit down and work through the separation of bills. I know where she's coming from. She's looking at what she was able to do for years on 1/3 of what I make now and while that makes sense, she's never seen a bill from S12's club sport career and rarely ever paid for the hotel and never any of the equipment. She's not known a car payment in 6+ years or paid auto/health/home insurance. These things add up to a bit more than the water/gas/electric bills, which I've been paying for the past year now. I've picked up enough bills over the past year with my last promotion and she's not had to work a second job anymore, which she got as a way to get away from me and finance her early MLC party outings.

She's had the support of newer friends, who've encouraged her to pull the trigger on our marriage. I can only imagine the picture she painted of me. Never in my life have I endorsed anyones feelings of leaving their spouse, with or without kids. Again - I lose no sleep over this. I know that misery attracts similar company so these people don't interest me. The one couple that I know that are simply amazing, and helped finance my W's departure, will follow the others my W has met and lost. They will grow tired of her misery and self pity party like all the others she's been inclined to spend too much time around - except for EM/EA who is even more miserable.

I don't know what to think about divorce yet. I do wonder if I'll feel as though I didn't get what I deserved. I'm not asking for anything and I really did want my W to take everything but the house. I suppose this is why I'm more amused than upset that what she did leave me was poop and she got the good stuff. She said she tried to divide things up so I wasn't left with nothing, but there's a huge gap in the quality of the few things she left vs. what she took. I don't much care because I don't want any of it. I like making a house a home as a reflection of myself. I actually found it enjoyable being outside today in the heat and pulling weeds, imagining what I'm going to do next spring to make the house look nice from the outside. I've never grown anything successfully in my life until this year and I'm already naive enough to think I can plant a jungle.

I'm taking things 1 room at a time. Bedroom is mostly done except for a new duvet. Next is the bathroom, then kids rooms. While all this is going on I need to find money to decorate the walls since there's just about nothing on them now. So far its been helpful to focus my energy elsewhere. I'm not wanting my W back if part of the bargain would be her bringing all that stuff back with her. I understand the emotional connection to the things handed down to her from her deceased family member, but I also believe it to be part of the reason she's a runner. Never give all of yourself, always keep your stuff close so you can leave and not have to start over from the absolute beginning. It makes sense now. It also explains why I feel like the only difference between me and her last two "serious" relationships is our kids and if we didn't have any, I'd never hear from hear again.

AJ - I do get that I have to be the one to leave. I know that's kind of a driving force behind my wanting to meet a new circle of friends and my rush to change the code on the garage and make over each room in the house. This is what I want, but I also feel a dual purpose, to reclaim what I've lost and to show her I don't need her. We both lost sight of each others needs over the years, but I chose to try and flourish and not run away. As it stands, I'm in no mood to share my new bed with her or anyone, but I do want to share my thirst for life and my pride in what I've learned and accomplished. But your story stops me short in some cases. You sound like where I think I'm headed, but I don't understand your ex-W. How long was it before she found the OM or announced marriage? I know we're not supposed to be able to make sense of an MLC-er, but if we made our spouses miserable and they new person fans their flames, why do they keep coming at us?

My W isn't coming at me, but I don't expect her too until the divorce is finalized. I can tell my indifference is annoying her greatly since she's used to my sarcasm and reacts to me as though I'm being sarcastic about everything even if I'm not. Sounds strange I suppose, but I can see it. She sounds strained when she talks or text's me and it feels like she hates having to communicate with me. Maybe I just notice it more since I've been going about getting my house in order and finding satisfaction in my efforts. When did your W start coming at you? When did you notice she was making note of your life? I saw in another thread you talk some about this and it left me thinking her desire to get married is a way to get back at you. I can't say that with any authority since I've not read your full story.

[AJM]

LOL. Arty, you amaze me with your insight. I don't know that I consciously thought the same things prior to writing some of those other posts, but honestly I do think part of it is to "get back" at me. I think part of it is also because of her mother's urging and most definitely because of her pride. When she took that first step, I don't think she meant for it to get like this...
When did she start having a go at me? When she met the new friends. That was before she moved out the first time. It got really bad after she gave me the ilybnilwy speech. That was right after her nephew killed himself. I was thinking it was part of that grief because I hadn't seen the emails at that time. I know better now.

How long before the OM? I don't really know. I know it was about 6 months after the speech when I discovered the valentine card from another man. To my knowledge she only really dated one man; the one she is marrying. He's been around for a very long time now although she swears they were "just friends" until she moved out. Don't really know about others but suspect one or two one-night stands. She targeted married men that were contemplating divorce from "crazy" women so dating was not a healthy alternative. Neat how it all works when looking from a distance.

Is my ex angry? Well, she comes across that way. Wants to be a single parent, wants to drag OM into the email conversations, plays games if I let her, tells my daughter twisted truth to help keep her angry and on her side (that part seems normal for a divorce although sick and really cruel to the kids), won't look at me, etc. Swears she is not angry though

When I read your posts, I'm worried you'll see similar anger. Something tells me you'll handle it very well though. You have a very good approach and perspective and really only seem to need a chance to vent and be heard. But I think you see things very clearly and know what you are about.

I suspect there is a lot more I could learn from you. Please keep posting and watch out for the changes as they may affect more than just you.

AJ

[RoofTop]

AJ - This last post of yours is something I've not read from you before. I beg your forgiveness since I have ADD, although a mild case, I lose focus as I go through old posts and tend to ignore or forget them. I read this last post of yours and I'm left asking What & Why, but I don't know how to formulate the questions correctly to get the right response.

I know my W very well, but without having read several books about marriage, love and MLC, I'd be sulking on a daily basis like my first year living with MLC. I still remember the last time my W told me she loved me and how the way she said it moved my world. I still remember feeling as though she was telling me she loved me as though there was nobody she would rather be with if the world was ending in minutes ( it ended 1.5 months later ). Granted, it's memories with such detail like this that contributed to me not knowing I have ADD until a year ago. June 19th, 2010. Nothing she's said to me since going into MLC matters more than her baring her soul to me on June 19th.

It's why I've paid her biological fathers grave a few visits these past few years. She comes off as a B$$ch to a lot of people and always has, but I've seen her heart. My last visit to her fathers grave was to tell him I was sorry I failed and to please let me go.

I speak of detachment and I believe in it and my progress towards it. Problem is, I can't let go completely. Not in a " I want her back" kind of way, but in a "I can't abandon her like everyone else when she needs me most" kind of way. I think this is why I have no complaints or guilt and I will give her what she wants - within reason. I'm not holding on to her coming back into our marriage w/ me, but perhaps more along the lines of my desire for her to one day see me again on my terms as the person I always wanted to be, with or without her. As much as I don't focus on my W, I can't stop analyzing this experience, from her to me to the kids. All the answers are there, we just have to open our eyes.

My W isn't doing anything that's come as a suprise to me. I've read it all and matched it up with what I know of her and I'm not suprised at all. I often find myself thinking God is involved in her life just as much as mine in that he keeps giving her chances to stop and reflect, but she's not listening or accepting. All her good relationships (friends wise) are expiring faster than her unhealthy relationships. She's met some good folks that have helped her realize her desire to move out and pursue a divorce and move conveniently close to the EA/OM. I'm not upset about this at all as it seems like it's a higher power putting her on the fast track. She wouldn't listen to the signs, so now she's getting exactly what she wants.

I can be wrong on this. I'm not a fool, but I've learned how to just give up and roll w/ whatever is meant to come my way as God wants it. I'm not really all that religious, I just believe what I'm seeing. I pray nightly for the strength to forgive and the courage to make the right choices. Sometimes it's just too hard to believe in coincidences as frequently as they seem to surface.

Getting off track.....

I know that my W has been extremely stressed about me "trying" to save our marriage. I can pair this up with the pictures I've seen of her at bars with friends and I see 2 things:

1) A woman who is in a hurry to get her message across to me that it's over.
2) A woman who's desperate for the attention I failed to give her - as she believes.

She wears the low neck line shirts that show off her new chest and all I see is the other women in the picture hiding theirs. I see my W is in a hurry to get me to realize we're finished. The problem is, she's not believing what she sees in me. Perhaps then, it is my W who needs to prove it to herself that we're finished and she doesn't quite believe it.......

Just one of many thoughts that go through my head as I over analyze us. My W told me she deserves to be happy and that she isn't getting any younger. She's right and more power to her. The difference between us is that I like to think that life is here all around us, not 1000 miles away. I failed her in several ways, but she's being dishonest with herself in the worst way - she's looking for someone to make her happy and I've seen where that got me with my W and I've learned my lesson.

We have the choice to make ourselves happy, but it's a skill that takes a hard lesson to learn. When I was happy, I cheated my W and myself into believing that she was the one who made me happy. This became a problem when she was frustrated, I was the first to react with - "What about me?" I know my mistakes and have learned from them, now it's on my W to learn many of these same lessons. But in the end, I'm letting it all go and leaving it up to God to judge how well I've learned these lessons.

So have I detached? Yes and no. I don't need her and I don't want the burden of the person she is today, but I will walk the length of the Sahara Desert without water, for her. So yes, I'm here to <RANT>, but I'm here to learn more. I don't know everything and I see so many dots on the paper, but I just cant seem to make sense enough to connect each dot in the correct order.

Oh, and I do kind of feel like I'm seeing the beginnings of her wrath towards me. I don't know what she can do to me as I've not seen the brunt of her fury. But I accept the challenge, because it will only quicken her progress towards her life's path as long as I can maintain balance and stay true to myself and the person I want to be. I'm doing it for me, but I'm doing it for my kids even more.

[AJM]

Me? Nothing special about me other than...well, me My story is like so many others on these boards. My ex is what she is. She does what she does. She is incredibly angry and takes it out on me. "That won't change until I change it" is something my C told me early on. She was right. I have to change things so she cannot take it out on me. I control that about me. Took a while to get the hang of that because of the things I wanted for my kids. I took a great deal of abuse and ridicule from ex to make sure that the kids were ok. Is that controlling? Perhaps. I wouldn't change that though. While I still had feelings to deal with and sometimes still do as things come up, I could have been done and kicked my ex out back in 2008 when I found the valentine day card from another man. I didn't. I chose differently but not easily. I could have cut her off from her kids. I did not but it has not been easy. We are finally at a point where I have no reason to communicate with her on any level even though we share custody. She chose that, not me. That's what I'm saying about watch the anger. You'll see why I say that below.

...but in a "I can't abandon her like everyone else when she needs me most" kind of way

The thing is, that's not really letting go now is it? Be careful with that one. As you go on to mention, you can't "fix" her or make her "see" what you see. This may come across like control. I get it though. I felt the same way for a long time. I am a former Marine and I don't quit. I'm very idealogical and philosophical by nature. But I finally had to figure out that I can't be there for her. That's just part of this. That's in my situation though, and may not apply with you in the same way.

My W isn't doing anything that's come as a suprise to me. I've read it all and matched it up with what I know of her and I'm not suprised at all. I often find myself thinking God is involved in her life just as much as mine in that he keeps giving her chances to stop and reflect, but she's not listening or accepting.

That has to be the single most intelligent line I've ever seen. That belongs in the FAQ. And you're one up on me. I was surprised as they come at first. Deer in the headlights. There were very few things in my life about me that I wasn't happy with. Still that way.

Perhaps then, it is my W who needs to prove it to herself that we're finished and she doesn't quite believe it.......

She may never get there. Are you ready for that? It may keep the wound open longer...

So have I detached? Yes and no

I think that's true. You accept most, but are still attached. You know that though...

Oh, and I do kind of feel like I'm seeing the beginnings of her wrath towards me. I don't know what she can do to me as I've not seen the brunt of her fury. But I accept the challenge, because it will only quicken her progress towards her life's path as long as I can maintain balance and stay true to myself and the person I want to be. I'm doing it for me, but I'm doing it for my kids even more.

Here's the thing. She left and blamed you for keeping her from her happines. Perhaps that's true and perhaps it's not. But to maintain her course, her "story" needs a bad guy for the times her vision "almost" becomes clear. Enter you. Accept the challenge? I once thought like that. I catch myself still doing that on rare occassions. But know what? That keeps you connected and has expectations attached to it. But that doesn't really matter. It'll likely come and bravado has no place in this mix if you ask me. It also, for me, used to manifest as me wanting her to come back so I could kick her out. Ego. I no longer think like that and have not for a long time, but I remember it.

My suggestion? Keep focused on you and the kids and let the rest of what comes, go. As you mentioned, she has her own path to walk, and hopefully it'll come out well for her later even if you never see it. Meanwhile, there's the kids. Be careful when her anger begins to really get a full steam as she may try to use the kids in this. You may be surprised by what she does in that area, but if you think about it, it would be hard for a mother to face her new friends without her kids and still blame you. It looks bad, right?

Peace,

AJ

P.S. Not sure how you do it, but you really make me think. I appreciate that.

[labug]

Great conversation, thanks for letting us eavesdrop.

[RoofTop]

I wanted to post yesterday evening, but I was very angry at myself and thought it best I slept on it. I feel better today and I've thought a bit more about what happened yesterday. Yesterday was my brother-in-laws wedding.

It was a beautiful wedding. I opted out of leaving town early in order to make the rehearsal since I knew my W would be there and I feel awkward already around her family and my frustration with being in the same room as my W would just make it worse. I also opted out of meeting up with the bridal party before the wedding even though I was a groomsman. I didn't want to be in a limo with my W even if my kids were riding in there too.

My W looked beautiful in her bridesmaid dress. I did offer her a heart felt compliment, but made no effort to look at her or make eye contact for the remainder of the wedding. I smiled as much as I could without seeming fake. I really was happy for my BIL and the vows that I hadn't heard in so long were very interesting to hear again. It did make it that much more difficult to look at my W. I have an aversion to quitting on things that are important, not for fear of failure, but because the level of effort defines who we are and my W quit on us. It agrivates me to no end because of how it affects our kids and I know that this is not my W or who she wants to be. I'm also reminded of how I'm supposed to quit if the both of us are ever going to find what needs to be found.

I found out at the wedding that my W had told everyone about moving out and pursuing a D. I was wondering when she was going to tell everyone, but I was hoping she would wait till after the wedding so it wouldn't cast a cloud on her brothers special day. I found that very selfish of her to tell them before his wedding. It also made me feel like a bull in a china shop. It felt like some people were avoiding me and others were overly concerned. So dang uncomfortable.

My BIL, MIL, FIL and my W aunt and uncle all reached out to me. I know I'm being treated like the last relationships my W ran away from, but I'm not like the others and their actions towards me only solidified my own feelings. When my W left her fiance 2 years before we had met, her uncle walked into bar and knocked him out. This very same uncle offered a sincere regret that it didn't work out and that he believed that something twice as good always comes out of bad things. Funny....I've been telling myself that for years. It also did not go un-noticed by me that my W's sister was avoiding me. She's the one who first told me about MLC a year ago and how she'd been trying to tell my W that that's what her issue is. I don't believe she was unhappy with me, I think that she thought I might want to say something and the wedding was not the time or the place. I didn't want to say anything about it and I'm not going to say anything.

I was amused at one point. While we were all sitting about in the air conditioning to cool off my W's mother got up from sitting by my W and came over to express her feelings about me and that her home was always open to me if I ever just wanted to get out of town for a few days. When my W got up to leave the area her mother only raised her voice even louder as she expressed how much she cared about me. I figured she had a dual purpose for doing what she did and raising her voice only seemed to prove that theory.

I was not in a festive mood so the wedding reception not happening for 4 hours after the wedding only helped solidify my decision to leave when everyone got into the limo to hit a bar first. That's why I was so angry with myself. They wanted me to be there and I made myself a stranger. There's no better group of people I want to be around, but I couldn't stop thinking that I would eventually have to tell them about my diagnosis. It was own personal dark cloud on the day, but since I still don't know all the fact about my diagnosis, there's still no point in bringing it up. I owe it to them to tell them, but not until I know more about it and have more facts.

I was 2 hours down the road on my way home when my SIL's husband called me asking where I was. I told him I was sorry, but I had stuff to take care of. I had already told the groom goodby and apoligized for not attending the reception, but I asked my "other" BIL to send my apologies to the bride as well. He was quick to understand. As I'd been told by others, he's been the most vocal about how P.O.'ed he is at my W.

So as I drove home with my tail between my legs my frustration with myself was mounting. S12 said some things to me that I couldn't really hear. I got that he's trying to get us back together. I also got some of what the EA/OM said to him the other day to get him so upset. He also said something about how EA/OM made my W cry and whatever it was, she wouldn't stop crying while taking a shower. I'm concerned, but will not get involved.

Here's the thing, I've always been a good judge of character. Call me egotistical if you like, but if we all had a super power, mine would be character judgement. I've only ever been wrong twice that I can recall, one guy turned out to pretty darn cool and the other is my W. I thought she was materialistic and high maintenance when we met and she proved me wrong on the materialistic part. She's high maintenance for me in that I'd never been good with expressing emotions and that was something she needed from me over the years and I failed to provide. I'm getting away from myself here...

So as I was saying, I'm very good at reading people's character. I see how they conduct themselves around other people and one-on-one. You can learn a lot about people just by watching them indescreatly. I know within two meetings with someone if I want to have anything to do with them. I've not been wrong very much. I was spot on about EA/OM's soon to be ex-W and I'm learning that I'm just as right about him as well. He's 40+ year old selfish child. I believe we select partners that reflect how we feel about ourselves. I've always placed my W above me as someone I wanted to be worthy of. I've learned that I am worthy, that knowing I'm able to live up to my potential and actually doing it, is the difference between how I had been living my life and how I "am" living my life today.

I have no fear of EA/OM. He and my W are no match and would never work. Him making my W cry, for whatever reason, is no suprize to me. I've seen how he treats his own kids and it's difficult for me to stand back and allow for him to do the same to mine. He doesn't lay a hand on them, he's just very rude and uses foul language. Very inappropriate in my opinion. S12 hates him and is getting less shy about telling him when my W is nearby.

I feel helpless. I know I have to maintain the house and me so that the kids always have a foundation they can grow on. I know what's important. I've been told by many folks, including a few therapists, that I'm doing the right things. That my approach, if I can hold onto it, is the right way to go in a bad situation. I will talk to S12 about whether or not he;d like to talk to a counselor like I have.

Anywho.....So I'm still overly reading into things. My judgment of character is what's keeping me from completely letting go of my W. I can see how the others in her life were treated when she left and me not being the same as them is what will make the most difference in helping her find her way. (AJ), you've brought up the possibility that my W may never find her way. You've mentioned it more than once. I agree to disagree on that count. I know you're not saying she'll never come out of the tunnel, just that it's possible she may not. I have read so much about MLC and have read a lot of good peoples stories here in the forum and still haven't learned it all. I see my W here and I also believe in what I know of my W. I know many if not most all of the mistakes I made that helped contribute to my W's MLC tunnel. I know I'm not the only one to blame and I know that I have no idea how to salvage a ship that's already sunk.

I know what you mean when you ask me if I've thought about the possibility that my W may never escape the tunnel and that's perfectly fine. I'm naive about a lot of things, I admit that openly, but I also believe that this is my path. I'm not going to always make easy decisions, especially regarding divorce, but if I'm supposed to take a few lumps I will. I'm not like anyone my W has ever met, I know it and my in-laws know it. So how does someone stand out in the crowd? Sometimes it takes being a village idiot, but having a purpose behind the act is what separates the idiot from the act.

You and others have said it and I believe it to my core, that God never gives us more than he believes we can handle.

I have a purpose. I'm doing a lot of guessing even though I believe I'll know that purpose when I'm supposed to know. Is it something I have to do? Is my purpose not about me, but my kids? Is my purpose about my W's journey? She will find her way out of the tunnel, I know she will. I admit that I can't say with certainty that I'll be there when she does.

[AJM]

RT, you sir are a one of a kind. Sometimes I feel like I am talking to my more articulate and wise twin

As you are talking, I see a plan formulating and I see you with the resolve to stand with it. I applaud that.

When I ask the questions, they are totally for your benefit. Not to discourage you but to see where your head lies. To see what you are really about. I think I see some of that now. I admire it. And I know it's a long journey, but I highly suspect you'll be standing when the dust settles.

You are correct to think that act and the idiot are separate. In fact, sometimes we are our strongest when we feel our weakest and most powerless.

You have a solid lock on what's important. You know that what changed, can change again. You know what your contributions are. You know what you need to do.

The only thing you don't know, is how long you'll need to do it and what the final result will look like. But your in-laws know you are different. You know you are different. You W knows you are different. So do your kids. They all know you are strong and smart. They are obviously rooting for you which says a lot about you, really.

My ex in-laws did the same. My mil and fil no longer do, but I think they were in that camp of not wanting to see their daughter in pain. I think they also bought into the lies to some degree. The rest of her family and I still talk and visit. Don't tell her though

Pace yourself RT, but keep on the path you're on. You have a good grasp and a good perspective. Try not to be so hard on yourself about the in-laws. You did your best and when you explain it to them they'll understand.

Peace!

AJ

[tested metal]

RT-

I am in the same boat with the judgement of character issue. It is also the one thing that keeps me hanging on.

The question is though, could it be that you are hanging on because you are trying to save her from herself? I ask myself this question everyday.

The other question I ask is: what if my judgement of character is not as good as I thought it was?

The second question smacks of being wrong or right, which does not matter at this point, except to note that I am not always right.

As for your actions during the wedding, in a sense you were ambushed, overloaded, and not ready to deal with the situation whcih was highly charged with emotion.

Forgive yourself. I'm sure the family has. If they haven't, then they got serious issues.

I came to the point this weekend where I decided that if I open myself up again to others and I get taken advantage of, then they are truely not for me. I will also state my boundaries clearly and effectively and if they don't like it, tough.

Detachment is a hard road and it takes a long time, but you'll get there.