Thread #7 - What goes down, might come up.

[Navyguy]

Starsky - Not sure that I agree that a D is just a business/legal transaction. For me, the emotional impacts of D are going to far outweigh the financial impacts. Yes, I need to make sure that my kids and I are taken care of - but again, I am more worried about the emotional impacts to us than anything else.

Last night, W was sitting outside and I had just finished watching a movie. I decided that I'd go talk to W about how she's been treating me the past few days.

I started by telling her that I realize we are done. She has told me that numerous times. She wants us to remain friends and for us to co-habitate and raise our kids. I got it...message recieved, loud and clear.

Then I told her that I have felt over the last few days that she doesn't want to be a friend - or even be around me at all. She acknowledged that it is hard for her to be around me for extended periods of time (i.e. when I have days off from work), because she feels like I have these expectations of her.

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Then we got to talking about the "vicious cycle" that we are in. We both agreed it was happening. Here's how it goes:

1. She constantly feels like she has to do certain things or act a certain way to prevent me from getting upset and to keep me "pacified", so we don't get into an argument. I think this started 4-5 years ago.

1a. When a friend (or W) doesn't talk to me, or avoids me, is short with me, or needs to drink to be around me, I naturally wonder what I did that made them not want to talk to me.

2. I start trying to figure out what I did wrong and/or what is bothering W. By doing so, I start "trying" too hard. I become needy/clingy/etc. This makes W feel even more like she has to act a certain way to keep me from getting upset, which in turn makes her more upset and makes her pull further away (i.e. walking around the house with the headphones, sitting out on the deck by herself, drinking, etc.).

3. Her behaviors make me even more upset, and on top of that, I still have no idea what I did that is causing her behavior. Eventually I get to the point where I "need" to talk to her about how she is treating me.

4. I initiate a talk with her. These talks used to have the overarching theme of "W, I don't understand why you are treating me like this and why you don't want to work on our M". Lately, they have had the theme of "W, I can't continue living this way. If you are so miserable that you feel you have to treat me the way you are and/or avoid me, then we need to start working on ending our M". To W, there is no difference between these themes. All she hears from me is "W, change your behavior to please me, or get out of the house".

5. Our talk ends up going nowhere, and we both get upset and defensive. She ends up pulling all the skeletons out of the closet, and I tell her that those things happened 5 years ago, I owned & apologized for them, fixed the things I was doing wrong, and don't understand why she can't accept what she has in front of her today. What she hears: "W, I have done all this work to fix our M, and you continue to do nothing except dwell on the past...I am right, you are wrong".

6. The talk/argument eventually ends, but I have just further reinforced the idea in W's head that she needs to act a certain way to keep me happy, and she resents that. I walk away thinking that she now understands that she can't treat me like crap. She then feels like she is walking on eggshells around me. I feel like I am walking on eggshells around her. Both of us are stressed, all the time.

7. Eventually an event happens (lately it has been our slew of May/June holidays) which trigger my expectations and/or W to start to pull away again...and we're right back to step #1/1a.

This has been happening to us over and over and over. I wanted to post this because I think it could help someone out there. This is "what not to do" - and if you take a hard look at the basic principles of DBing, they exist to stop this cycle. I bet a lot of people are doing this same thing - but it's so hard to see it happening when you're caught in the middle of it.

I don't blame W for this cycle, and I don't blame myself either. It's just been happening, and we're both caught in the middle of it.

Yes, I have made myself a better man, father, and husband. I am a good person that deserves to be loved and respected. But when this cycle is happening, none of that matters...in fact, it probably worked against me, and caused the cycle to get worse.

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After W and I had defined and agreed on the vicious cycle, we started to talk about what we could do to break it and make our living situation acceptable for both of us. Neither of us had an answer - so I asked her if she would be willing to go talk to someone with me to help figure it out. She said yes.

I have IC today - so I plan to go over this with her and see if she has a recommendation for someone that can help us.

I don't have any hope of saving our M at this point - this counseling will strictly be to see if we can come up with a plan that works for both of us. It may even cause us to realize that the "plan" is unfeasible and that we need to D. I told W that I can either get some names of counselors and she can call them and find whomever she's comfortable with, or I can set up the appt. She told me to set up the appt.

I said ok, and then went to bed. W came in a few minutes later and asked me if I was ok, then she said "sorry I've upset you". It was a real apology - unsolicited and without sarcasm. I told her that she didn't need to apologize...it's not her fault...it's nobody's fault. Then I said I was sorry for making her feel like she needed to act a certain way to make me happy, and I went to sleep.