I'm a new person

[2chiquitos]

How do YOU feel about being in a R/M where your H continues to have contact with a woman that he cheated on you with, walked out on you with, slept with and shared intimate moments with? Are you OK with that? Is that a boundary for you?

This is something I have been debating with since Sept. I continue to interact with him all the while knowing he is still talking to her. However now, in this past month, I have become increasingly impatient.

A faithful, committed and emotionally invested H will not worry about the feelings of an OW ahead of those of his W.

This hurt, a lot, but it's true.

For now, maybe you could find a non-threatening way to let him know that you would like him to cut off all contact with OW. All. AJ

I struggle with this without coming off harsh. Please give me examples.

Also, have you worked on how you listen to him and his needs? It seems that he needs that at this point. Without judgement. Just listening as somebody who cares. That's very hard considering, but it would make a world of difference. AJ

I have been tapping into his LLs really well, which is why i think he comes around more and continues to say he's confused.

you want him to know he left a woman of dignity and honor and strength,[/u] who held it together even in the face of adversity. And not a shrill shrew who will remind him of the reasons he left...
correct?[/color]

EXACTLY!!!

Constant struggle everyday, isn't it?

That's an understatement More like every second!

Seems to me neither you nor your husband is done with each other. Like you both just need to figure out how to come back together. AJ

This made me wanna cry, but yeah you're right and yeah I do need to freakin relax!

Today I did H a favor and took MIL to pick up her car. He really likes me doing these things for him, especially when it has to do with his mom. I also wanted to do it for his MIL since she has been wanting to do something together. We also went out to eat and visit a Hs cousin who just had a baby.

Speaking of appreciating. Hs cousin got married Feb 2011. Got pregnant Oct 2011. Her H died unexpectedly Dec 2011, a week before Xmas. Everyone is trying to be positive around her, but it's hard.

I've been very down because I need to talk to my cousin and ask her to please keep things to herself or at least don't tell my friends because it will get to me and I (nor my kids) can afford to go through this emotional roller coaster. This is hard since she takes things personally and enjoys gossiping...

[2chiquitos]

Why does life have to be so hard? No, wait that's not true. I'm making my life hard. So Why am I making my life so hard?

I talked to one of my gossipy friends today and asked her to keep the gossip to herself. The conversation was awful... I said, how would you like it if I researched the effects of raising a child in an interracial couple? Yeah, I went there after she said she saw research that said how damaging it was for me to allow H to be so involved in our daily lives (vs. weekend visits). I said, I don't tell you how to raise D3.

She is a VERY good friend of mine, almost like a sister and I would hate to lose her but she has been pushing HER agenda on me and it frustrated me.

Also talked to H about OW. I said, whatever you want to call it, what we have is a relationship and we communicate the way we do for our kids sake, but I can't do this if you are still talking, texting or emailing OW. You disrespect me everytime you contact her and you respond to her contacting you. (I should have said, I feel...) End of story he said he's going to stop talking to her sooner than I think...
"BUT that doesn't mean we're going to (get back together). We've have done a lot of damage to each other and the people around us because of how mean we were before -all this." ie. no R in sight...

I wonder if we would have gone through all this drama this past year had he not been seeing OW after I discovered the affair?? What do you guys/gals say?

[sayitaintso]

I say what if's aren't productive.

So what are you prepared to do if he continues to communicate w/ OW?

[bustorama]

The beautiful thing is that you can choose the life you want, veroprado. And you even can choose how you interpret and react to things that happen in your life.

Veroprado, I know it may not feel like it to you now, but you have a real opportunity for growth in this sitch.

From things you have written, you have talked about how anger and aggressive emotional reactions have been an issue for you in your relationships, especially with H. Anger is generally a bastardization of your own hurt or pain (in which you defensively lash out at others when you feel hurt or betrayed).

Consider your interaction with your great friend. It sounds like you felt frustrated and put upon by her -- her forcing her agenda on you, maybe controlled by her or demeaned by her. Maybe like she knew better and didn't respect your views on how to handle the situation. Really powerful feelings, I imagine.

But how did you share any of those feelings with her? You more or less defensively lashed out at her and challenged her, a bit like a cornered animal. The pressure that you felt, you basically turned the tables on her and applied the same pressure against her, "How would you like it if I told you how to raise your interracial daughter?!?! Keep your gossip to yourself!!!"

There is a vulnerable way to express yourself when you feel hurt or betrayed that tends to draw people closer to you, rather than push them away (like anger tends to). What if you had said to her what you confided to us? "You are such a very good friend of mine, XX, almost like a sister to me. It really frustrates me and even hurts me when I feel that you are pushing your agenda on me. It pushes me away from you. I feel pressure from you and that's not what I need from you right now. I need you to XXXX for me." The conversation might go differently between the two of you if you can take those feeling of hurt, pressure, frustration and confide them or share them with the person and even share with them what you need from them. Instead of transform them into or hide them behind anger.

Try to think in some of the same ways that you have been with your H (and maybe continue to be with your H)? This is some of the meanness that he is probably referring to and maybe doubts can be healed from or that would be different in a new R. Really focus on learning to express, confide and share your frustrations, hurts, doubts and even feelings of betrayals openly (don't hide them). But, do so now in a vulnerable way, not in anger or shrillness.

When your H says stuff like this to you:

"BUT that doesn't mean we're going to (get back together). We've have done a lot of damage to each other and the people around us because of how mean we were before -all this."

The best thing to do is validate him and accept him -- don't try to convince him otherwise in any way. Accept that it's how he feels.

"Yes, H, I can totally see how you would feel that way. We did do a lot of damage to each other and the people around us because of how mean we were, even before all this. I would not want to get back together to go back to that either."

and leave it at that, living in the present, minding your boundaries, whatever they are.

[jks]

Lovely post, Busto!! It makes me so happy that you continually come back to help on these boards. Thank you!

[2chiquitos]

So what are you prepared to do if he continues to communicate w/ OW?

Go dark. I'm ready.

There is a vulnerable way to express yourself when you feel hurt or betrayed that tends to draw people closer to you, rather than push them away (like anger tends to).

I waited a couple of days before talking to her. I thought this would cool me down. I also wrote out what I was going to say, but I think I need to work smarter at this. Write down and EDIT!

This is some of the meanness that he is probably referring to and maybe doubts can be healed from or that would be different in a new R.

This is EXACTLY what he's referring to. He hates that I used him as a scapegoat. Today I did it to my friend (and him). I should go back to exercising... That did help with my anger AND al anon but attending mtgs regularly.

The best thing to do is validate him and accept him -- don't try to convince him otherwise in any way. Accept that it's how he feels.

I did do this well. I agreed with him. Told him that I am also scared of R, BUT I still want to try.

[2chiquitos]

Teach me how to detach! I need to detach!! I can't keep getting emotional every time I find out something. This is wearing me out!

[bustingout]

Vero ((( )))

Much more experienced people than myself tom help you with detachment. But Indonesia want to saynwe are all here foryou. What busto said was wonderful, and you know yourself. You know how much you can take. And you know you can do this.

There were maybe some expectations that with OW out of the picture, things would begin to heal with H and R? But look at it as baby steps. Live in the now. If R truly ends with OW, that is something. And several people on this site have told us that evennwhen an A ends its not all flowers for the LBS. wAS will still go through periods of loss and grief and may still lash out at you in anger.

Accuracy said in another post that once the OW/M is out of the picture, that's when the true 'waiting' begins.

Just go slow. Don't let your emotions rule you. See what develops with your H's words to end all with OW. Just observe for now.

As for your friend. Well, thats the great thing about friends. I bet if you called her and told her how you really felt, she would understand.

((( )))

[bustingout]

Indonesia-seriously auto correct?

I just want to say!

[bustorama]

There is a vulnerable way to express yourself when you feel hurt or betrayed that tends to draw people closer to you, rather than push them away (like anger tends to).

I waited a couple of days before talking to her. I thought this would cool me down. I also wrote out what I was going to say, but I think I need to work smarter at this. Write down and EDIT!

This is so great that you are aware of it and already taking steps to try to address it. Here are a few things that I have found useful:

1) HALT -- If you find yourself wanting to talk about something, and you are:

H-ungry
A-ngry
L-onely or
T-ired

then HALT, take some time to yourself. Step away from the conversation. Excuse yourself if you have to, "I want to step away/talk about something else right now, because this isn't the best time for me to talk about this."

The trick is you need to KEEP doing this over and over and over if you have to until it isn't such a hot topic for you -- eventually the stove will cool down.

2) PAUSING -- Any time you are talking to someone about something "hot," make it a habit to stop yourself the moment you are about to talk/respond. Like literally, if you are about to respond to them, even opening your mouth. Stop yourself. Even if just for a second or two. Just the act of stopping yourself engages the same parts of the brain that help to self-regulate how we feel and what we say. It also cues yourself to be mindful of what you say and how you say it. If you are talking from that frame of mind, you are less likely to respond as instinctually with the emotional/reptilian parts of your brain.

3) THOUGHT STOPPING/CHALLENGING -- if you find yourself REALLY angry about something, try to thought stop real quick and try to challenge the thoughts that may be giving rise to your anger. For example, in the case of your friend putting her agenda on you, a thought that was fueling your anger about what your friend was telling you might have been -- "She doesn't trust that I know what I am doing and is telling me how to live my life." An alternative, challenging thought of the same event (your friend telling you what to do) might have been, "She is really worried about me and doesn't want me to be taken advantage of or hurt further, so she is telling me what she thinks would protect me from further harm. I see things differently, but she is doing this because she cares about me." If you get fast at identifying your feelings and try to work back to the thoughts/cognitive interpretations that may be giving rise to those feelings, then you can challenge your own thoughts with other interpretations of the situation.

The best thing to do is validate him and accept him -- don't try to convince him otherwise in any way. Accept that it's how he feels.

I did do this well. I agreed with him. Told him that I am also scared of R, BUT I still want to try.

Next time don't tell him that you want to try. By telling him you want to try you are implicitly invalidating his stated view that it may be too dangerous to try. You are making it about you and how you feel (instead of how he feels).

You can feel that you want to try. He can feel (right now) that he does not want to. And everything can be ok, both right now, and in the future. You telling him that you want to try will not convince him to try (it will tend to do the opposite, if anything).

The counter-intuitive part to the DB LRT is that the more you LOVINGLY and ACCEPTINGLY adopt the view that you are ok with not trying, that you accept that they don't want to try and, indeed, are done trying with someone who does not want to try with you, the more likely it is that they will want to try with you.