You should go -- invite someone else. Next time you talk to her tell her about it and what a good time you had and how happy it made you. That's the direction you want to take, that's the view you want to give her
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
[quote=Accuray In the course of light conversation, you can mention to her that YOU are going to go to the music festival, and then change the subject and talk about other things you're doing and things that she's doing. If she wants to go to the music festival with you, she'll say so, but in that context, there is no expectation. She is not rejecting you if she doesn't offer to go, and therefore she's not put in the role of being the bad guy. Accuray[/quote]
I agree with this. If you're sure that she'd love to go to this, maybe she'll ask to join you or you'll run into her there.
But if you ask her, you're going to be very disappointed if she says no. I know this, because I've done it myself.
M36 XH34 M-5 T7 4/11 H confused 5/11 ILYB 6/11 OW discovered 7/11 I move out, OW over 5/12-OW2,done->new EA, but H wont file 9/12 H "best bf ever" to EA/OW3 3/13 H/OW break up H files 4/13 D 6/18/13
Unfortunately, I don't have many people to ask round here and they are either busy or just don't want to go because of the cost. Damn, I'm fed up of doing stuff on my own!
W is sharing with you and talking to you because despite what she says, she is NOT done with you. If she were, she wouldn't tell you about her IC or ask about yours. When my W asked for divorce she didn't want to talk to me at all, she tried to completely avoid me. She is keeping the door open, and is carefully watching you to see if a future with you is going to be exactly the same as your past has been."
I needed this reminder. While I'm not at all sure this is true in my case, it reminded me that H is watching, even when I may think he isn't. Thanks Accuray!
So I got half way to the festival and decided I didn't actually really want to go so turned round.
On the way back I was driving through the countryside and remembered a book called freakonomics. One of the key points of that book is that people are driven by incentive. Eg A realtor has no real incentive to sell YOUR house for �1000 more a month later then your current bid if they only receive $30 extra commission. If they sell their own house for $1000 more a month later then it definitely worth it to them and so what happens is that realtors' houses sell for more and are on the market longer than an average house.
So what can I take from this? Well at the moment my W's life is relatively straightforward. She is in a nice house, rent free (for now) in a picture postcard little village. She can do what she wants, when she wants. She doesn't have to worry about anyone elses feelings or moods. Her job is secure for 3 years at least. She will soon have her one bed flat, her cat, her family and her work. Who knows there may be an EA/PA too but I don't think so. All in all life is looking pretty promising for her.
The only issues she has are this man who she has all these memories of. A lot of guilt regarding walking away from a marriage, currently feeling very lonely and a number of issues regarding an electra complex and self esteem.
She is dealing with the guilt and loneliness by ignoring it and hoping they go away over time. She's dealing with the self esteem and electra stuff by seeing an IC. The only thing she can't deal with is the man and he keeps making life more difficult for her so is actually giving her an incentive to leave him behind.
So I guess what I need to do is stop making her life more difficult and then work out a way of actually incentivising (i think it's a word :-) ) her not to want to leave me behind. That is where I start to struggle as everything which worked before has stopped working.
As Accuray and others have worked hard to point out to me (and thanks again guys, I am trying to learn honestly!) panic mode is never going to work. There's no incentive to return to something that makes you feel worse! Right now what I need to do is find a way of maintaining just enough positive contact that she doesn't actually want to leave me behind completely. Once that's achieved I can implement the work carried out on love languages etc. Backsliding on the 180 is turning positive contacts into negative ones. I guess what GALing does is twofold - 1) it makes the LBS more interesting and happier and 2) a happier LBS reminds the WAS that all those memories aren't all negative. There are lots of good ones in there too which are currently being buried by the negatives. So what I need to work out is A)how to maintain these contacts and B) how to keep them positive. WRT A - Pretty soon there won't be any need for me to contact her. The bills are all swapped over, the only things left to deal with is a house and a divorce. They aren't really great starting points! I can't imagine watching her extract her half of the house is going to be a pleasant experience either. Random phone calls and invites are currently a no no as they will be regarded as negative and pressurising. I'm not sure she'll be contacting me any time soon as life is too good for now. She won't come to MC so that's out but I don't want to rely on fate here. I'm going to need to do something or it'll drive me mental! Is there anything I can do other than cross my fingers and wait?
WRT B - to make the contacts positive, I need to be positive. That's pretty difficult right now with naysayers left, right and centre, my own low self esteem and desperation. First thing to do is sort my work life out. I'm going to a careers festival on thursday and I'm going to starting work on a plan to leave academia there. It's not where I want to be so I should do something about it. In the meantime I'm going to finish my current project in 6-9months. For the self esteem stuff I'll try and work out in IC. I'm not sure either councillor is quite right at the moment. The MC wants me to get angrier, man up and start standing up to my wife. I'm not sure that's a good plan! I'm not sure about the IC yet but he hasn't started well with all the feelings stuff.
I'm also going to start volunteering, preferably something outdoors and physically active. I'm not sure what yet but I need to start getting more people involved in my life. Being lonely is stopping me being positive. I'm going to turn one gym session into a class session so at least there are people around who I could interact with unlike in the gym. I've signed up to get involved in a social committee at work which has just been started. I'm going to try and find a club to get involved in. The problem here is I'm not sure which club! I have just seen a social club which offers all sorts of events so maybe that is an option. Any other tips will be gratefully received! Are these more like the goals I should be trying to achieve?
Give it a couple of hours I'll be doing something stupid again by then ;-)
Volunteering applied for so I'll be clearing woodland areas of unwanted plants and things on saturday mornings. I was going to volunteer to help with the fire service but thought I'd start small for now!
So is there anything I can do to keep in (hopefully positive!) contact or do I have to cross my fingers and leave it totally in her hands?
Mab1, overall this is great, you're starting to see the path. The only issue I have is this:
Originally Posted By: mab1
Right now what I need to do is find a way of maintaining just enough positive contact that she doesn't actually want to leave me behind completely.
You do NOT need to find a way to maintain just enough positive contact. You have the consequence reversed -- continuing to pursue contact is what will make her decide to leave you completely.
Things seem so final because the WAS is so firm in their convictions when they talk to you. They expect you to chase them, and they expect to keep running, that's her mind frame.
You have the part about incentives down correctly. The other element of this is "training". If someone is rude to you every day, they "train" you that they WILL be rude to you. You anticipate it coming before you even interact with them. Just seeing them triggers you that you're in for an unpleasant interchange. This is training -- it's repetition. Your brain actually creates neural pathways to help you get to your conclusion faster -- you don't have to think about it, your brain react without thinking.
In your sitch, you have trained your wife what you will and won't do and say, and your wife has trained herself about what she "wants" right now. She doesn't have to think and consider, she can rely on her existing neural pathways. The more you see her, the more she reinforces what she wants to believe.
Back to my example -- if the "rude" person suddenly took an etiquette class, went to therapy, and became delightful overnight, you would STILL avoid them. They're new reality wouldn't be credible to you at all -- you'd think it was a trick. You'd still avoid them. Only with TIME, when you observed that they were nice to others repeatedly, that they had a smile on their face every time you saw them would you slowly start to THINK about the fact that they hadn't been rude to you in quite a while. That's when you start to think, when the repeated observed behavior contradicts your trained expectations. Eventually you'd want to approach them because they seemed so nice, but you would STILL be taking a risk, and would be cautious about it.
Here's the thing with your wife -- you are NOT a stranger, or a casual acquaintance. You had something she NEEDED when she decided to marry you. You were filling a need for her that she needed filled. She still has that need, and there is still pleasant memories and emotions buried there. THEREFORE, SHE HAS HER OWN INCENTIVE TO RETURN AND CHECK-IN. You do NOT need to force that incentive by pressing for contact. You need to focus on your 180's, your happiness, and becoming the best person you can be EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS LOOKING. If you can do it when no one is looking, she'll notice.
This is a HUGE leap of faith, you'll feel like you are stepping off the cliff and she won't come back. I recently read online that 90%+ of divorces initiated by women don't get finalized. You have a good chance of being in that 90% of you can resist pursuit. She WILL look over her shoulder, and you want the view to be spectacular -- a picture of happiness and fun, something that she would want to share in.
You can do it, but do NOT chase her, resist that with everything you have.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Do you have hobbies that you've let go by the wayside? What is it about yourself that you like?
This is coming from a person who had very low self-esteem when my whole sitch started. Some of the things that have helped push me out of that "funk" is focusing on my strengths. What makes me special? What is it that I'm extremely good at?
I've said this on other threads but I think it's important to focus on your strengths along with building up your weaknesses at this time.
And if you can find people in your area that share the same hobby, then all the better because you can make plans to do them together. Just no one-on-ones with women, I say... that's just opening another door of confusion and making things 10 times more complicated. I say this from experience as well.
Me: 32 H: 32 M 9 yrs #1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2 Bomb 8/12/11 H moved out 8/14/11 PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12 Got my own place 8/25/12 H & OW move in together 9/15/12 Still married.
Mab1, overall this is great, you're starting to see the path. The only issue I have is this:
Originally Posted By: mab1
Right now what I need to do is find a way of maintaining just enough positive contact that she doesn't actually want to leave me behind completely.
You do NOT need to find a way to maintain just enough positive contact. You have the consequence reversed -- continuing to pursue contact is what will make her decide to leave you completely.
Things seem so final because the WAS is so firm in their convictions when they talk to you. They expect you to chase them, and they expect to keep running, that's her mind frame.
You have the part about incentives down correctly. The other element of this is "training". If someone is rude to you every day, they "train" you that they WILL be rude to you. You anticipate it coming before you even interact with them. Just seeing them triggers you that you're in for an unpleasant interchange. This is training -- it's repetition. Your brain actually creates neural pathways to help you get to your conclusion faster -- you don't have to think about it, your brain react without thinking.
In your sitch, you have trained your wife what you will and won't do and say, and your wife has trained herself about what she "wants" right now. She doesn't have to think and consider, she can rely on her existing neural pathways. The more you see her, the more she reinforces what she wants to believe.
Back to my example -- if the "rude" person suddenly took an etiquette class, went to therapy, and became delightful overnight, you would STILL avoid them. They're new reality wouldn't be credible to you at all -- you'd think it was a trick. You'd still avoid them. Only with TIME, when you observed that they were nice to others repeatedly, that they had a smile on their face every time you saw them would you slowly start to THINK about the fact that they hadn't been rude to you in quite a while. That's when you start to think, when the repeated observed behavior contradicts your trained expectations. Eventually you'd want to approach them because they seemed so nice, but you would STILL be taking a risk, and would be cautious about it.
Here's the thing with your wife -- you are NOT a stranger, or a casual acquaintance. You had something she NEEDED when she decided to marry you. You were filling a need for her that she needed filled. She still has that need, and there is still pleasant memories and emotions buried there. THEREFORE, SHE HAS HER OWN INCENTIVE TO RETURN AND CHECK-IN. You do NOT need to force that incentive by pressing for contact. You need to focus on your 180's, your happiness, and becoming the best person you can be EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS LOOKING. If you can do it when no one is looking, she'll notice.
This is a HUGE leap of faith, you'll feel like you are stepping off the cliff and she won't come back. I recently read online that 90%+ of divorces initiated by women don't get finalized. You have a good chance of being in that 90% of you can resist pursuit. She WILL look over her shoulder, and you want the view to be spectacular -- a picture of happiness and fun, something that she would want to share in.
You can do it, but do NOT chase her, resist that with everything you have.
Accuray
So, I can't make any effort towards her at all then? You're right that is a huge leap of faith. All I can see happening that way is there is a painful separation of furniture and possessions (question - how helpful should I be in that process?), then months of slow torture and PAs (more than likely hers, but I'm human too! Right now I can't comprehend anything but in time who knows?) afterwards eventually resulting in divorce. There are no kids involved so I can't see how we can build anything after she's moved out. I can't see her getting in touch because she's feeling so guilty about it all. So far she has only initiated contact once and that was 2 weeks after she left and that was only to reiterate her decision. On the flip side, I guess it can't make things any worse can it? :-) As for things I'm exceptional at, hmmn, not sure. I'm good at lots of things but never focussed on anything long enough to become exceptional. Hobbies? Well there is golf but that is so frustrating! I've never been artistic so there isn't anything that way. I need to think about this a bit more...
