swimming with turtles and some guidance

[zig]

there's no way to tell what will happen?

that's surely as sure as death and taxes!!

grrr KD - you never answer my questions directly - always make me work so hard to figure it out on my own. can i have an easy day ofF?

oh wait - no of course i can't, what was i thinking, wanting to be so self-indulgent:)

asking for a day off from this, is like asking not to live -it's all part of the experience of living - good or bad.

yes you're right about the swimsuit thing - maybe i am just very nervous of being out there with so many people doing something that i haven't done before - never swam at s's b'day party.

and i think what is behind everything is that i'm feeling damn vulnerable about this party. all eyes are going to be on me (i can hear it in their voices on the phone these last couple of days when they call to confirm)- how can zig be this okay during all of this? i'm going to be hanging out with our old friends - h's good friends who he's hung out with during this separation - and i'm f'ing nervous about it

but it goes beyond just the party. am i being true to myself even working towards saving this relationship - maybe that's what you are picking up on? i do find myself thinking about that a lot.

aargh. even though we are excited about the party, and i know it will be fun, a part of me doesn't even want to be there at all. i don't want to do this thing with h - and i am sad about that.

[LostIn407]

i guess i'm a bit confused - it is stated non-stop that the coaches and Michele are the experts - so if they are actually encouraging us to do this, how does that work with support on the board? not to mention them putting it as " start having an affair with your S"

so what are your thoughts on this, and would love to hear from others on the board too.
zig

This confused me too, but I think I understand it for my situation.

First, you have to detach, GAL and 180. This is for you. The best thing I got from DR was to work on me. Be selfish. You need to build up you again. Make yourself stronger.

If you are not strong, there is no way or reason to pursue or 'have an affair with the S'. If you are not strong, you will have expectations and come crashing down hard when they are not reached. You will be stuck in quicksand.

If you are strong and a better you. A you that isn't dependent on others for happiness and support, then you will be able to weather the storm. It might go well, it might go bad. Either way, you are strong enough that you will survive and move on. Your happiness is not dependent upon the relationship.

I see it as a new spark. It is a new you. Your S is a new person in your eyes. It is starting from the beginning again. You might not like the new S. The S might not like the new you. But you like the new you, so that is all that matters in the end.

If you haven't changed, then the S is only going to see you like they saw you when it all went bad and you are only going to see them how you saw them. What is the point in jumping back into the same toxic relationship?

This could be totally poor advice, but it is how I see my sitch now. I am not the person I was. I don't see W like I saw her before. All I know is that detach/GAL/180 made me strong enough to move forward to any new stage.

[labug]

I don't know that it's a controversy but I think it's hard to reconcile MWD's advice in the book about LRT and seducing your S. Maybe the coaches have all the inside baseball info but that wasn't in the book as I recall. Or maybe their advice covers things that aren't in the book.

Now I'm not saying it's wrong and I think what Lostin407 writes is very true. It would be difficult to not have expectations and that can lead to a big crash and burn.

Do what works is in the book and it it's working for you, keep doing it.

[zig]

roro, NLW, labug, brit

thanks fro your responses. they were really good to read- i want to talk about it some more- just not today.

in the middle of being covered with cake , running the interns work and making sure she was ok and 3 11 yrs olds running under my legs - i did manage (KD:)) to sweep the eggshells out of the way and sort of let h know that i wasn't going to do this party if he was going to growl at me if i asked a question.

i actually said -"i feel as if i'm in your face, totally inconveniencing you because i asked how much cheese we need!!"

he'd invited us to stay for dinner tonight - i suppose it's beside th point that neither s nor i like enchiladas but that's what we're eating and piss off otherwise!!
I'd happily accepted - but after loads more additional piss-headedness on his part, calmly called him back and said that actually s and i would stay here, because i had a ton of stuff to still get done with the cake, and didn't really have time to hang out. there was no implication on my part whatsoever that it was because of the way he was behaving.

at some point he got mad and said - well you should just stay there and do your stuff and i'll stay here and do mine and we can meet when the party starts!! i was like - sure if that's the way you want it, but couldn't we find another way to do it, if we are giving this party together

on and on and on

in the end - s insisted that he wants to go there,so i had to call h back - and said - well if you're still cooking dinner we'll come and eat.

s and i just talked about the enchiladas - (laughing) agreed that neither of us had made much effort to even try and see if we liked them or not, over the years - and we grinned at each other and said that tonight we would just decide to like them!!

so after all those hoops to jump through - we're still going swimming, cooking together and eating dinner there!!!!

that book how to fix your marriage ... really helped me deal with h today . what was the source of all that growling? he called to ask if i could go pick up a couple of things he had forgotten at the store - even though i happily agreed saying no biggie - he felt shame for asking for my help and that made him just get growly and really difficult.

and then in the middle of all that - i'm standing at the stove (a bit upset i admit) and s's friends mom comes in to get them. turns out i was crying - didn't' realize it and so we started talking and next thing she's telling me that her h is a really severe alcoholic and she is on the verge of becoming a WAS/

and i sat down with her in the middle of all this while she cried - and it was SO HARD for me to hear what she was saying.

everything happens for a reason - i understood h just a little more - as she described her agony and how she has detached over the last couple of years . oddly she really sympathized about my position (she doesn't know about the affair - i keep that info to only the few people i've chosen to tell) and was amazed that i had agreed to do this party.

she wants to come back and talk to me some more - i gave her the how to save your marriage and DB titles and authors - she wants to read them.

she already understood about the changes she had to make and how she had to do the work and has been doing the work for over a year. her h adamantly refuses to admit there's a problem and get help, so she feels pretty hopeless.

any one have any advice on what she could do? she doesn't really want to leave - she was so calm and soft and gentle - she is really a lovely person and very very kind. they have two gorgeous little boys - whom i know really well - they've spent whole summers at my house. and i hate to see their family break up.

well - back to the cake

if anyone has any thoughts - especially the vets who have succeeded in turning a situation with a severe alcoholic around - would love to hear what helped.

oh and also - she's told him several times and they've had counseling (a lot) that she will leave and he just shrugs. his mother has also advised her to leave with the kids.

very sad

so i am a bit sad today - to see her pain - i think she felt a bit better after we talked , which made me feel good that i could help a little - but it's brought a lot of stuff up for me- there's no anger on her part, not even a hint

zig

[~ kd ~]

Zig, of course I have the utmost respect for all who are on this board and sharing support and opinions.

Yes, the ONLY experts are Michelle and the coaches. Any professional advice you get from them absolutely and completely overrides any support or opinions you might receive on this board. And maybe, sometimes their advice may just be intended for you... to consider... and do... if it works for you...

Anyhow...

Yes, you need to fish for yourself. And yes... you CAN take a day off...

The only other thing we can be absolutely sure of, is change. We CAN expect change. We just can't have expectations on what those changes might be.

[~ kd ~]

Glad you decided to go enjoy enchiladas that your H made at his place.

I think you know that I heard my W had lost a lot of weight and even though I saw her recently, I chose not to process her weight loss (I looked at her so I certainly saw her, it certainly was a choice, even if it was subconscious) and was a little surprised when I heard about it.

So today, I decided I to simply acknowledge her weight loss and congratulate her. Because I would be happy for anyone whom I knew struggled with loosing weight. And I do not care if she gets mad at me because I'm being nice. Because I don't care if it has any affect on our relationship. It's just who I am.

I can make choices based on my past pain... or I can just let it go... and be me...

Your friend with the alcoholic partner? I know many people who live a life with an alcoholic. And I know a few people who are recovering and still in a M. And I know those who have left while their partner was an alcoholic AND AFTER they were in recovery.

It really just becomes a choice of the alcoholic's spouse.

[vera be fierce]

Have a great party!!! Can't wait to hear what everyone thought of the cake and the swimsuit

[Brit45]

Sorry I haven't been around!!! I've just caught up...PLEASE tell me that you are going to wear the bright coloured swimsuit. I'm picturing it and you in my head (not that way haha) and I know it will shock him and you'll feel confident! And just like I said ages ago, you want him to look across the yard and see you looking confident, happy, and the life of the party.

[zig]

the party was phenomenal!!

and the swimsuit - h saw it yesterday when s and i went over for dinner - he actually was just all out staring at me while i was talking to him - and not at my face. later he asked me "so you got a new swimsuit" and i said happily yes.

today, my dress was a hit too, but h was not biting - in fact he spent the whole afternoon and evening staying as far away from me as possible, and trying not to look at me or talk to me much. i just stayed consistent and friendly. i noticed he didn't drink all that much - which is unusual for him - and i know that that was a sign that he was fighting -

i could feel his determination. it was almost amusing!

in terms of looking across the room and seeing a beautiful, attractive woman, relaxed, happy and having a wonderful time - i couldn't have pulled it off better. and i wasn't acting - i really felt that way

what really touched me was that the women who are my friends (some of them know about ow, most of them only know that he's left) - sort of enveloped me with a lot of love and kept checking to see how i was holding up. i was so proud to tell them that i was doing great for the most part.

i had a bad few minutes after serving the cake. and two of them had just asked me how i was holding up, and i started crying and one of them who is a good friend just took me away for a walk down the road, which helped a lot. the cake was definitely a trigger - h and i carried it out together, just as we always did, and then i served it, but it was a difficult moment for me.

the cake came out great - but i forgot my camera and the pics are on h's - will have to get them later. i had made enough for in-laws to have a celebration w s when they came back. as i was putting it away in the freezer h asked what i was doing, and i told him that. he suggested that maybe they could have it for his b'day which is in 10 days.

we spent about 15 mins sitting outside by the pool having a smoke after everyone left. he allowed that - meaning he didn't get up and run off. he offered that i could stay the night and i just said are you asking me to. he quickly protested no, no, definitely not. i just changed the subject and we chatted about how great the party had been. he didn't want to acknowledge that we had done it together, when i told him that about 10 people had come and said to me you and h throw a great party!!

at the end, when i was leaving sil and i were in the kitchen alone and she said the same - you and h throw an amazing party - i replied, ya , i tried to tell h that and he wouldn't acknowledge it.

sil - very hard to read where she's at = we stayed general and i can't say it wasn't hard to be around her.there was a distance between us that wasn't there at all before.

earlier she had asked me you're coming tomorrow aren't you? and i said where. and she said there's a family gathering at uncle's at the lake. i said no, i haven't been invited. h told me he and s were going. she looked utterly shocked and said wtf?

i just turned away - i can't deal with that right now - how can she be surprised that he wouldn't invite me, with all that is going on?

oh well - not my thing to deal with.

i'm relieved that this party is over - s had a lovely time, so did everyone else, and i am so pleased and proud of myself that i had it in me to pull it off. all my friends acknowledged that, and it just felt good to know how supported and loved i am through all of this.

so now on to the rest of my life. i have detached so much from all that is going on and from h - the most positive part of the day was that we didn't come even close to one second of anything negative. h didn't argue or push on any issue and it really went smoothly - all the interactions between us.

zig

[zig]

oops brit - yes i did wear that bright thing - and i looked bloody good in it too!!- so after a while i actually started feeling quite relaxed and confident, because so many people came and told me how good i looked in it. (people don't exactly go around saying oh you look great in that swimsuit - i think they were just so happy to see me looking good and being happy) - in fact a bunch of us even talked about it and i told them that i had been feeling a bit nervous.

i know it sounds stupid to be going on about a swimsuit - heck everyone wears them - but with everything that happened with my body after the accidents, i guess i hadn't realized how self-conscious i had become. now i feel like i'm better than i ever was and just enjoyed looking good.

i've come a long way.

today - looking in the mirror - i had the thought - wow i am a completely different person - i don't even look the same. if h is looking at me , he's not seeing the old zig - physically i don't even look like her. and don't sound like her and i don't act like her - at all.

i'm really enjoying the new me!

((( )))