Thread #7 - What goes down, might come up.

[Navyguy]

I suggest there is value to you in what the Stockdale Paradox professes.

JS - I struggle with this, but agree that there is great benefit. I think the way I need to apply it is to know that no matter what happens on a daily basis or how things turn out, I will come out of this ok.

Flirtatious comments are one thing but "liking" the FB photos? Big deal.

25 - I agree...I am wasting my time getting spun up over this. That is why I deactivated FB...NOTHING that happens on there really matters.

the real issue is she wants out of the marriage- in every way but financial

You're right, and that's what an objective look at her actions tell me.

You need to be free of this relationship. Do you see that?

I don't know. I think I do at times...and during those times all I think about is what a relief it would be to end all the drama and to stop living with someone that "can't" be nice to me. But then there are times where I am unwilling to accept that my M is over.

Navy I worry that you really need more IC than you are getting.

Probably a legitimate worry since I haven't been to IC in almost a year now. I am starting again this week. Also getting back on some AD meds.

BUT THEN targetting the Facebook garbage is symptomatic of you wanting to point at SOMETHING ---ANYTHING

Just want to make sure I understand this - are you saying that I am grasping at straws, looking for some reason to blame W for what is going on?

but the reality is your w checked out 3 years ago and you let her.

I agree that she checked out 3 (or more) years ago - but I don't understand what you mean when you say "I let her"?

You admit you have only been in r's with women who don't treat you well, correct? And you have a terrifying fear of being alone or not married to this cruel cold miserable woman.

if you are half the man I think you are, you ought to be running to the L's office.(God help me for saying that but THIS MARRIAGE is a real bummer for a very nice sounding guy...IDK- maybe you're a great liar or ugly as sin but I don't think so...) You are just afraid and it's paralyzed you for 3 years now.

I would say that I've probably never experienced true, unconditional love from a woman for any significant period of time. Maybe it was there at one point with W - but I think she has always resented me for one reason or another throughout the years.

I do have a fear of being alone - that is probably a good part of why I have accepted the status quo for so long.

I think I am a pretty decent guy. I've never had a problem getting along with anyone except W. Nobody's ever told me to put a bag on my head. And I am definitely not lying on here. I know you're only getting my side of the story, but I try to represent W fairly. In fact, I found myself defending W to both of my previous IC's.

My mom also told me that she really wants me to go see a L. You and her are probably the two wisest women I know and both of you are typically very much against D...I think it's time to listen. Not sure if I'm ready to file or not yet...but getting over to the L's office is the first step. Even if I do, VA has a 1-year waiting period when there's kids involved.

I don't think OM is important enough to bring up but you know how I feel.

Agreed. I gave W my word in writing that I wouldn't bring it up again, and I plan to keep my word. I didn't mention this previously, but he is active duty Navy - an E-6 with 18 years in. He'd be taking a huge risk by going after W. I think he also has orders to move to Bahrain this summer.

Maybe your w is hot and gorgeous, and maybe when she's NOT around you, she's a fun partying friendly happy active woman...but ....really?

So she has no skills that pay well AND has 2 small kids. Um, you think she's that great a catch for a younger man to have a real r with?

My W is attractive. When she's not around me and hanging out with friends, she's typically drinking, so of course she's going to be fun, happy, etc. This guy is not younger than W...I think he is 38 or 39. I think he's more likely looking to "get some" from W than to establish a long term R with her.

No more wordy letters, please. She probably felt it was an "ordeal" or "chore" to read through. Sorry but it's just way way way too long.

I skimmed it twice before I FORCED myself to read it all. Sorry, but that says something.

Agree - it was WAY too many words. Thanks for taking the time to read it though. W did mention on Saturday that it was kind of good to communicate that way - I think leaving the emotions out of the conversation helps us both understand where the other person is coming from.

I cannot wait for you to get on the other side of this lake b/c you are going to be a man only a fool would leave

if you keep your strength up...it's like working out. Being a strong man.

make sense?

Yup, got it. I know the AD's and IC will help. Playing with the kids is always great too. I am also starting to ramp up my training for the Marine Corps Marathon in October. So that's a good thing to focus on.

Thanks again for your devotion to this board. While I know my sitch has been hard to watch at times, I promise you and everyone that's helped me that, when this is all said and done, I will make you proud.

[Starsky309]

I suggest there is value to you in what the Stockdale Paradox professes.

JS - I struggle with this, but agree that there is great benefit. I think the way I need to apply it is to know that no matter what happens on a daily basis or how things turn out, I will come out of this ok.

This is only HALF of the Stockdale Paradox. For a hint as to the other half, YouTube search the "you're already dead" scene from Band of Brothers.

Just like "tough love" with your kids, or "speak the truth in love" in life, you need BOTH halves of the Paradox in order to thrive in this phase.

Starsky

[Navyguy]

Starsky - I checked it out. That makes a lot more sense now. I have to acknowledge that my M is dead and come to grips with that.

[DaddyLongShanks]

Starsky - I checked it out. That makes a lot more sense now. I have to acknowledge that my M is dead and come to grips with that.

When I was in db land, coming to grips that the relationship I had was over was one a great freeing revelation. There's tons you can do with your life, and analyzing the former relationship will waste most of your time and processing power if you let it.

Set some small goals for yourself and work towards them.

[greenblue90]

Check out the writings of Athol Kay.

He kinda tries to create a post divorce culture model of marriage, based on mutual trust, and respect. He also maps out a path for a man to be strong and confident while loving and caring.

I think it'd help you a lot.

[25yearsmlc]

Navy

when I said "you let her" check out of the m, I meant that you have put up with this loveless relationship I won't call a 'marriage," for 3+ years...and with little to show for it but time you won't get back.

Although from the sounds of it YOU are a better man than before and that's no small matter. Kudos for you digging deep to become the best man you can.

I also KNOW you will be more than "okay" without this woman in your life. Period.

As for the OM...

are you an officer? And he's enlisted? Brilliant career move...Oh, and she's cute and "fun" when she drinks?


Navy, to me that's not "fun"; so much as it's someone who drinks, thinking they
"need it to Act" happy. Which is of course a problem drinker.

Who knows? Maybe your w will "wake up and smell the diapers" if you file. Like you said, there is a year waiting period.

In this state, a third of divorces filed are never completed and get dismissed. Surely a lot of those are folks who reconcile.

It could happen but I would not count on it. All we "KNOW" is nothing else has worked and it's getting worse now.

Enough said...and I am quite confident you will make some OW a happy woman b/c you will have learned to be your best self. I'm glad you are getting IC too.

Not positive about the "unconditional love" b/c we all sort of place conditions on our love. If my h hit me, or our children, I would not keep loving him.

But I love him now, as he is. Is that what you mean?

((( )))

[Navyguy]

when I said "you let her" check out of the m, I meant that you have put up with this loveless relationship I won't call a 'marriage," for 3+ years...and with little to show for it but time you won't get back.

That's what I was thinking you meant. I do think that one thing I have gained from sticking this out is that it has made me much closer to my kids. And like you said, I am a better man for it.

When I was talking to my mom yesterday, she told me how proud she was of me for everything I've done. I know every parent is proud of their kids, but this seemed different. She told me that she was crying when I read her W and I's text exchange from a few posts back...not because it upset her, but because she was so proud of the way I handled W.

are you an officer? And he's enlisted?

Yes and yes.

Who knows? Maybe your w will "wake up and smell the diapers" if you file. Like you said, there is a year waiting period.

Yeah, maybe. I don't even know if I can think that way though. I think for me to truly accept my M is dead, I have to accept that there's no chance she will come around. Does that make sense?

Not positive about the "unconditional love" b/c we all sort of place conditions on our love. If my h hit me, or our children, I would not keep loving him.

But I love him now, as he is. Is that what you mean?

That's exactly what I mean. Someone that will accept my flaws and respect my strengths instead of resenting them.

Well, here's the last few days:

My anxiety levels are still high. I am still FB-free but I can't shake the thought of this guy pursuing W. I tell myself to let go and that worrying about it isn't doing anything for me, but it keeps popping into my head. The big thing coming up is that W is taking another trip to Ohio BFF in mid-July. Part of me worries that this guy is going too. The meds seem to be helping, but I have been waking up very early every day and feeling very stressed.

W and I have been getting along pretty well. It is so strange. A couple nights ago I got home from work and we just talked for a half hour...then we sat together for dinner while the kids played...and then we watched some TV shows together...and I didn't initiate any of it. I think she's "testing" to see if she can be nice to me without building my expectations.

It does appear that W is still cutting back on the drinking...at least prior to me getting home from work. She is still going through about a bottle of wine a night though. Her latest thing is to walk around the house with her headphones in and listen to music all the time. Probably just another way to "escape".

I had my first IC yesterday and another scheduled for Friday. The initial session was 2 hours...I spent the whole time giving the IC the cliffs notes version of my sitch. I told her that my main goal for the IC is to come to grips with my M being over. It was a good session, and I am hopeful she'll be able to help me. She quickly recognized that I've been living in limbo for 3+ years and really seemed to catch on to where I'm at.

I'm really just wanting some inner peace in my life right now....hopefully I'm headed in that direction.

[25yearsmlc]

(((( ))))

[Navyguy]

Well, there goes the W doing better on drinking thing. She was hammered when I got home today around 6:00. She's laying in bed now.

[~ kd ~]

Navy, I so feel for you. Not sure if you know, my mom is an alcoholic and when everyone thinks maybe this time she will figure it out and fix it... bam... something else becomes the reason to drink...

Each time, I talk to my dad when I know it's going on. He's a recovering alcoholic, himself. And I can see in him when he is happy and really seems to believe she's done... and then it hits again and you can tell his hope is just crushed.

Your W has a real problem if she's drunk by 6pm on "any given day". Of course, I do mean that in the sense that, if Wednesday was her work scheduled Saturday, and she was out with friends all day and had a few too many wobbly pops and needed to lay down for a rest after dinner...

but... I'm guessing that's not the case with your W.

Like 25, I so reach out to you with hugs and prayers that she finds her way. And that you and your children survive this in the best possible way you can.