So I'm just thinking about this a bit and how it relates to me and DB and... stuff...

I relate it to the reality that no one learns until they are ready. Then... the teacher appears... The lesson and teacher could manifest in many different forms.

If the only option seems to be using words, and we know that words don't change someone's mind... well, I wonder...

When I feel I must have words with my W to express my feelings to her, then I take a moment to consider my own lesson. In what way have I not detached, enough?

When I'm at a party and some guy is being rude and an idiot, I don't go over to him and punch him in the head.

I might feel better about it for the moment, but I doubt that it will cause him to become a more respectful person.

No, rather I emotionally detach from him as much as possible and carry on with my life.

I totally get that your W's behaviour is making you anxious, Navy. I really wonder if you are detached enough.

IIRC, I don't think you are out of options and I'm pretty sure that dbmod's suggestion is an option you have not yet tried. You may need to be more detached to do so, and in either case, if you were only able to choose between flowing with or resisting... further detachment might still be in order.

I see how dbmod's suggestion might also be relevant in my own sitch. I do not know if I am detached enough, although I feel I am. Where my sitch is different is that my main contact with my W is during pick up or drop off of my D9. It would take some deft work for me to get to a point of engagement with my W that I could even bring forward the idea of doing something with my W.

At least I think so... it's been over a year and a half since I've last brought up that idea and at that time, it didn't go over too well. For all I know, that's all my W is waiting for is for me to open up more to being with her.