Left town this weekend while W moved out. Upon return last night, found she took some pics, few tables and most of her clothes. The closet still has LOTS of shoes and probably her winter clothes or clothes that probably don't fit. First thought was that she had time to get her stuff out but didn't. Then wanted to read into why. Maybe not ready, maybe not sure, etc. Then told myself she might have been busy with the furniture situation and didn't have time. Then thought "stop it", there is no way to know.
She asked to come over to watch the B Ball game as her TV hasn't been delivered yet. Sure, come on. Overall, fairly normal feeling night.
OK, first night to sleep alone. Very yucky. Got up this morning to get ready for work in a half empty bathroom and very quiet. However, I know each day will be better.
************* On drive to work this morning, she calls. Last night, I had asked for some paperwork regarding my son and she thought it was at her office. Today's phone call was to tell me the papers had been in the back of her car the whole time. My mind is saying, why is she calling. There was no purpose for this call.
I asked how her night went. Before she could answer, I told her I shouldn't have asked that. I told her these were weird times. I still was acting like she was my best friend and I cared about how she was. I also told her I knew she might answer that she slept like a baby which would make me feel bad.
I told her my night was terrible. In the past, we were separated for five months (8 yrs ago). Since then, I would tell her I knew what it was like to sleep without her and I was so glad she was back in my life. I would bring up the topic of her sleeping by my side as a positive statement to her. Meaning, I am glad she was back in my life.
She told me her night was terrible. The lady who lives above her had an alarm that started going off around 3am and she would snooze it a lot. She was in a new environment, a new bed, etc.
The last thing I told her was that I knew we had to go through this. However, I told her that I needed feed back about us. It may be in a week, a month, or several months, but I needed to know where we stood. I was not going to be in a position to wait around like my brother. (My brother was separated for a year before they finally finalized their divorce.) I've been through a separation before. What I was trying to say is that I'm here and want to work on it, but, I'm not going to wait forever.
I know I'm not supposed to do that, but, sometimes you can't help it. I know today is day one of change which will become normal at some point.
I feel like I'm slowly getting better but it is still tough.
Please provide any helpful advice....I notice I come to this sight several times a day looking for answers. Thanks for everyone's help.
I wish no one had to go through this. I know where you are at and it hurts. It's s tinging in your soul, that you really cannot describe to anyone outside of your situation.
Bottom line is why give someone lots of space in your head rent free who is not thinking about you. You have to find a way to focus on what you need to be doing.
I found going to the gym and taking care of health and getting into hobbies helps.
"Michelle through her research and work is going to have put together processes that have the highest chance of working in various scenarios."
Impossible. Every situation is different and there is no way they all be accounted for.
"And also understand some methods which are "illogical" but work regarding these type of situations."
That's what DB is all about. DB isn't logical and goes against instinct. You really haven't been reading.
"The things I pointed out which got some negative flak, are things that "you aren't supposed to do", or "are not nice" - but they do have some affect, and"
No you got negative flak because you kept stating them as fact and comes across as rude.
"even if only to make you feel better about what's going on."
If you want to get your spouse back, you don't always do what makes you feel better. In fact, that's what got the LBS in hot water sometimes. Go back and read the book.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I told her my night was terrible. In the past, we were separated for five months (8 yrs ago). Since then, I would tell her I knew what it was like to sleep without her and I was so glad she was back in my life. I would bring up the topic of her sleeping by my side as a positive statement to her. Meaning, I am glad she was back in my life.
She told me her night was terrible. The lady who lives above her had an alarm that started going off around 3am and she would snooze it a lot. She was in a new environment, a new bed, etc.
The last thing I told her was that I knew we had to go through this. However, I told her that I needed feed back about us. It may be in a week, a month, or several months, but I needed to know where we stood. I was not going to be in a position to wait around like my brother. (My brother was separated for a year before they finally finalized their divorce.) I've been through a separation before. What I was trying to say is that I'm here and want to work on it, but, I'm not going to wait forever.
I know I'm not supposed to do that, but, sometimes you can't help it. I know today is day one of change which will become normal at some point.
I feel like I'm slowly getting better but it is still tough.
Please provide any helpful advice....I notice I come to this sight several times a day looking for answers. Thanks for everyone's help.
NGUY,
You're still coming across as VERY needy in this exhange, and still looking to your wife to soothe you. You need to find other areas to get this, as I can almost guarantee you that it will TURN OFF and PUSH AWAY your wife.
Supplication might make YOU feel better, but it's not attractive to HER. I'm assuming you'd still like to attract her back to the marriage, if you can?
I agree. I justify this by telling myself that now that she's out of the house, there will now be periods of time with little or no contact. And I want her to know how I feel.
That same thing that was discussed where I think if I say it the right way or say it enough, it will connect. I know it won't and I shouldn't do it.
However, I know I've said it before and she knows what I feel and I should stop.
She already knows how you feel. And she's in no position to be the one to help you heal right now. Even if she wanted to (and she doesn't right now), she's too damaged and confused herself right now.
Right now, your wife's radar screen looks like this:
1. Herself 2. Herself 3. Her fantasies 4. Getting away from you 5. Herself
I agree. I justify this by telling myself that now that she's out of the house, there will now be periods of time with little or no contact. that means your changes will be more noticeable. And you'll have less tension when she's not around. Is it ideal? No but it is what it is and you need to see the upsides when you can. It's part of having a PMA....know what that is?
Read the books and you will know...
And I want her to know how I feel. WHY? Who cares?
No offense, but SHE is not the person you are to express your feelings to now.
If you want to compliment her in an affirming loving way that somehow isn't pursuing (which is NOT something you are capable of doing yet, sorry)
then later on you can tell her those things to show YOUR change. But atm it'd be clear pursuit AND would look just like a tactic to get her back, not a real change on your end.
For now work on your PMA -please-
the POSITIVE things you feel are about the only thing you should express
and ONLY IF SHE ASKS...
to put it another way-- do you think being miserable/incomplete WITHOUT her, is at all attractive? OMG I'd flee...
Jerry McGuire's "You complete me" doesn't work in real life.
That same thing that was discussed where I think if I say it the right way or say it enough, it will connect. I know it won't and I shouldn't do it.
However, I know I've said it before and she knows what I feel and I should stop.
so you KNOW..."BUT BUT BUT"...but what? You're weak? Gee, that is appealing. Healthy women do not tend to love men who know what to do, but cannot...
So now you've heard it from men and women. Weak men are not attractive men.
Loving men can be (usually are) strong & attractive. But needy men are not.
HOW to be stronger and DO what you need to do and NOT DO what you don't?
Where the head goes, the heart will follow, if we let it.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
"Michelle through her research and work is going to have put together processes that have the highest chance of working in various scenarios."
Impossible. Every situation is different and there is no way they all be accounted for. True Bond, but she HAS empirical research and has put together what has the relatively highest chance of working
whereas all we have is this board, our own experiences and what we read.
DLS seems ONLY to use his experience and boldly applying it to all.
DSL, you cheated on your first w and say what would have worked for you back then, but I wonder.
You say that cheaters mock their former spouses, rubbing their noses in it to humiliate the spouse by cheating and throwing it in their face, etc?
Did you do that to your first w?
Was that your goal when you cheated on your first w? Did you even give her a 2nd thought or what?
True confession time- I spoke long ago to a poster (now banned) about how I almost had an EA- PA some 20+ years ago and why I personally felt exposing was a BAD idea.
At the time of my almost EA/PA, I had my reasons and don't want to go into them now (hijack) but suffice to say, I felt totally justified. I rationalized it. At the time, I believed "H had pushed me into OM's arms, (figuratively.")
Luckily I had some great gf's and sisters and my dad, whom I confided in, believe it or not. (Despite the rationalizations At some level there was tremendous internal conflict b/c why else would I seek out advice?)
This was before things had gone too far.
So I went to a shrink and a minister (the minister was far more helpful at the time than the shrink, who seemed to agree with my reasons for wanting an A...wth?). The minister made concrete suggestions to help me feel better IN the marriage too. Anyhow I got help & worked it out, and stay married without having an affair. Merely considering it scared me.
But here's the upshot.
IF My h had found out and tried to shame me by exposing me--assuming that means telling my family (who already knew and understood)
or to my work or 3rd parties or acted like a victim with an angry attitude or as if he'd hold it over my head, I'd have filed for divorce that week and probably never looked back.
Why/how?
B/c h really was too busy and he really was neglecting his family. I really did feel justified. I was in the Gulf War (I ONLY joined for him) so thanks to that I was in a bad sitch to top it off and an intense and weird situation too.
H had been way too busy & tired at home for a long time (as in 8 years and he started it when son was 8 weeks old) and that's just a fact.
He was in medical training and that is, what it is. I know, he wasn't getting drunk at the bar but for every night he worked late or all night and came home to sleep was another night of me being a single mom. (Just to show the other side of the coin).
So to me, since I THINK most women who have affairs are angry hurt or lonely (I'm projecting and I concede this) are also depressed, or neglected, or worse, I can say what I KNOW would NOT have worked in my situation. And it happens to be exactly what MWD's research supports.
DLS - I just don't believe you read the Div Remedy book, period.
OR you are here to argue against it.
Starsky, like I said, I don't know your story. From my POV, you seem to take the same approach & equate all EAs and Physical affairs, regardless of duration or circumstance, as if they all belong in the same pile. Maybe you don't. But it's how it strikes me and my reaction bugs you so much which also strikes me.
I mean, At least mine is consistent with DBing.
Sometime I think you don't believe the other spouse plays a role. I did not say "blame the LBSer" but it is a fruitless endeavor to avoid looking in the mirror.
And There's a lot about "pulling back, going dark & no contact", which maybe what most need but
would have been the exact opposite of what I needed in my situation
and h must have sensed it, b/c he romanced me just when I needed it most, which made my working things out on my own, possible.
I like the term "boundaries" but don't know what others mean when they use that word. Boundaries are sometimes mis-used as euphemisms for "punishing' and 'teaching" and or shaming a spouse into submission/return which does not sound like a healthy or loving thing to do.
And I cannot imagine that alone, restoring a marriage. It MIGHT get a spouse home, but shame won't make them happy or stay...and I think most leave again if that's what got them home.
you're right, one size does not fit all. SOMETIMES exposing MIGHT work but we are not even sure what we mean by "exposing".
Confronting the spouse may make sense...not always...but I bet often...is that what you mean by exposing?
Or confronting others? Why? Who? What goal is served?
To me (& MWD suggests this) involving others would make it harder for the WAS to return, which goes against a DB premise of "Keeping the Road Home, Paved & Smooth", which does NOT mean once they come home all is fine & dandy. It does not make one a doormat.
I think we all agree, doormats are not attractive or healthy.
So DLS, back to how you behaved and what you were thinking when you cheated, you paint a pretty ugly picture of a cheater. I don't believe most women are as into "humiliating their spouse" as you seem to think. It's selfish for sure, but I don't see MOST cheaters as acting consciously to punish.
Were you?
I'm sincerely asking. B/C I have to say that when I merely considered OM, it was b/c I was in a lot of pain and felt my m & h were years away from ever meeting my needs. (My love language is quality time and i didn't get much or any, for years...He worked 80+ hours a week, sometimes 42 days in a row and when he was home...he wasn't really.)
The main thought/image that kept me from straying was the vision of my h or my kids crying b/c of me.
"And also understand some methods which are "illogical" but work regarding these type of situations."
That's what DB is all about. DB isn't logical and goes against instinct. You really haven't been reading. Not sure if it's literally "illogical" but it certainly FEELS counter intuitive. And I have seen some great results.
"The things I pointed out which got some negative flak, are things that "you aren't supposed to do", or "are not nice" - but they do have some affect, and"
No you got negative flak because you kept stating them as fact and comes across as rude. "even if only to make you feel better about what's going on."
Wow, this is just "young" thinking and it's potentially dangerous & only "makes you feel better" if punishing someone does that for you.
Like the phrase I once heard, "Holding onto anger to hurt someone else is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes."
The nastier a cheater is, the easier it is for an LBSer to feel good about the choice to leave. Just fuels the negative images she had for leaving in the first place.
On a few occasions I have wanted to slap someone's face. I would "feel better" ...in the short run, maybe.
But it would a very bad BAD idea...for ME--legally, morally and emotionally.
can you see why healing myself on my own, without hurting someone else or involving someone else,
is healthier and more moral and therefore more likely to succeed in the long run?
If you want to get your spouse back, you don't always do what makes you feel better. In fact, that's what got the LBS in hot water sometimes. Go back and read the book.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I agree. I justify this by telling myself that now that she's out of the house, there will now be periods of time with little or no contact. And I want her to know how I feel.
That same thing that was discussed where I think if I say it the right way or say it enough, it will connect. I know it won't and I shouldn't do it.
However, I know I've said it before and she knows what I feel and I should stop.
The only person who cares how you feel is yourself.
Its like the stuff she left behind.
You can look for symbols in it. Or see it for what it really was. Keeping the stuff there is cheaper than putting in a 8x10 storage. It is also stuff she no longer wants. And it will be stuff to initiate contact to make sure your still saying "how high" when she says "jump"
So bag it up and move it to the garage.
It will be very hard. But it is something that needs to be done.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
W was over again last night. At the end, when it was time for her to leave, she brought up finances and assets. This started another bad episode. She keeps upping the request until now she's asking for too much. She started at a little, then changed to what I think was equal and now way exceeds what is fair and equitable (per the courts). I stood up for myself and explained my position. I was trying to keep the house and could if I could make payments to her instead of a lump sum. In some anger, I told her she told me she didn't want me to sell the house in order to have my S live in the same place and stay in the same school. I said I would sell the house and get her paid. She seemed to back off some. I won't know until something actually happens.
I saw the counselor today and he provided information which really made me think. He said the marriage was broke, I don't want her back into the same relationship. I had a right to be mad and angry. I need to set boundaries. I can't change her, she has to want to change and take the action herself. A lot of statements that sounded straight from DB and responses on this forum about not being weak, how that looks, etc.
During this discussion, I told her I took my ring off and she said she had noticed. One specific thing she said was "Did you tell him you KICKED ME OUT?" I said "yes, he said I had every right to be mad and upset." She didn't respond. (She has texted a friend or two and makes a big deal that I KICKED her out but she fails to tell them why.)
She was upset, said she was leaving and didn't want to discuss any more and she left.
An hour later, she made her move on a cell phone game "Words With Friends" we've been playing.
I don't know if I've done anything right but I feel like I stood up to her on the money. I had previously told her as long as I wore my ring, I was going to fight for the marriage. By taking off the ring, I was signalling she didn't control me. I told her I had proven my love during our marriage by staying and working things out during the shi&%y times. I could have left several times but I didn't. I know I don't control things and I'm going to set back during the separation and have a chance to breathe, just like she should do.
We could both use the time to let emotions settle down and see what we wanted to do at a later time.
