Yeah, Crimson, that is script about grieving her vision of how things would be, about things being hard, about wanting to go home because it is hard being a single mom.
It's her beginning to experience reality.
And 25 is spot on to avoid the I understand, especially since she has said you don't understand/get her. I remember having a conversation with my W where I said omg I totally understand how you feel. That's hard for me too. Then she said you don't understand me at all. And I responded with you are so right, I couldn't possibly get how you feel. Only you really know how you feel.
While she feels you don't get/understand her, you can also say things like "omg, that sounds like it has been really hard, W."(basically commiserating if not understanding) Try not to say that you have been experiencing the same stuff or that it is hard for you too or that you are going through the same. She doesn't want to hear about how you are feeling when she is WAS. She is focused on her own unhappiness and you claiming to get her (when, in her mind, you DON'T) or that you are going through the same stuff (when, in her mind, you ARE NOT), is not validating her feelings.
If she says she is exhausted, "W, that sounds so exhausting" If she says she is having a hard time with the single mom day after day thing, "Yeah, W, that sounds really hard, day after day without a break"
When you say it is hard on you too, it can be seen as you making it about you (or about us) instead of staying focused on her and her feelings.
And, yes, it is script/totally normal for her to be at the depths of despair one moment and totally fine a few hours (or minutes later). That is WASville.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
Crimson, hate to say this but another problem with "I understand" is that it makes it about you or you two.
It is a tad self centered. She is complaining about HER hard time. She's not interested,
nor does she believe that YOU are in there with her. It's about how SHE feels then, not how you feel. Listen to her. Don't "fix" it. Fixing it is a turn off b/c it's like what you are really saying is "stop talking about it b/c I suggested something and now let's move on"
Which I KNOW you do not mean.
SIDENOTE When I say something went wrong in my day, I almost always want my h simply to listen and validate. maybe give me a hug or back rub.
I DO NOT want him to tell me what to do unless I ask him.
So when my h says "oh that 'problem'? Well, just do A and B, and it'll be fine" what I hear him saying is "okay so now shut up about that 'problem' b/c I fixed it with my suggestion and what else is there to do or say?"...
ANYHOW
it's also possible your w feels an element of guilt (already), for causing this situation for her, her son and you. YOU would not understand that b/c you did not file...we can HOPE this is what she meant or feels somewhere in there and may not even know...but
SOMETIMES that guilt converts into anger/attack...so don't try to pile it on. Do not "probe" for WHY she might feel bad...it'll be seen as either pursuit or an attempt to manipulate her...or both.
While A little guilt can gently remind a WAS that their choice wasn't so hot and might need re-examination
too much, or any coming from you, will usually backfire. She'll feel overwhelemed, and most parents,
esp mothers (Sorry if I'm being sexist...I am not sexist UNLESS it's convenient )
but moms who feel guilt, FEEL it...so if you add on to it with ANY indication that "of course she feels guilt, she should",
she'll blame you in a heartbeat. It's just too much to cope with for most moms. They end up numbing themselves in some unhealthy ways.
Check out the stats on mothers who file/leave the marriage, absent abuse. It's worse for those who leave their kids too...and your wife has lost time w/him.
IF their ex h's are good guys, they nearly always second guess their choice. How can they not?
If you stay on course, I truly believe time is on your side.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks everyone....I have gotten some really good advice from you guys. It has helped a lot today. I think sometimes saying "I understand" is a reflex....almost like filler when someone is expressing that they are having a hard time. You guys are right - I really don't understand 100% what she is going through right now. There are some common threads that run through our suffering (missing son, etc.) but there is more that is unique. Over the months, I have gotten better at listening and validating - but there are some finer points that I think I need to work on.
Sometimes, I feel as if I said "that sounds really hard, you must be having a hard time" - it would come across as disingenuous on some level. I doubt if that is how it will be taken - but that is how I feel at times. Need to have some blind faith in the fact that it isn't being read that way.
Notwithstanding, I do see how "I understand" can be read as a bit self-centered. Believe me, I am not handing anything her way that could be seen as guilt. I know that would be a critical error and I know she feels guilty....months ago she said "I feel guilty for putting our family through this".....months after that she texted "I'm sorry for causing you all of this pain".
I guess for me it is hard to rationalize her just now coming to the realization that reality does not comport with the life she wanted from this. From day one it seemed like where she is now was an inevitable place. Odd thing is....she is just ONE week into the "full time summer parent" gig and this is where she is. I worry about how the rest of the summer will go.
Oddly enough, lately I have been feeling really good. The whole "one day at a time" approach has been amazingly helpful. If I tell myself that I only have to make it through THAT day, I seem to do fine. Someone once said "Life's a cinch by the inch and a trial by the mile"......yep, that seems to be true for me now.
Had a great day with the boy today. We kind of lazed around the house (it's STUPID hot outside here) and ran a few errands. He took a nap and then we went for pizza and back home to swim. He loves the water....we have a salt water pool and it really relaxes the body/muscles. He will sleep like a log!
Thanks again everyone....VERY helpful today. I am thankful for this board and the kind souls here.
So I figured I would post this while it was still fresh in memory. W just left the house a little bit ago.
Father's Day....going pretty OK.
I got up this morning wondering if I was going to go to church - then something said "you are going to church today for you, not to sit and wonder if W is going to be there". Divine intervention I guess. The message was about handling negative thinking. Making room for negative thoughts, but not dwelling on them. Basically said that trying to force yourself not to think about something is the best way to dwell on in. Rather, make room for the negative thoughts - acknowledge them and then go on to something positive. If I didn't know any better, I would swear 25 was the one telling me to get my a$$ out of bed and got to church this morning!
After church, S and I went to the store to pick up some groceries so we could grill together tonight. We went home and I put him down for a nap. Then I got a text from W. I was having phone problems so I just picked up and called her. She asked if we would be around later because she wanted to drop a few things off. I told her that I had just put him down for a nap and he would be up in 2 hours. She asked me to text when he woke up and she would come by.
I took about a 45 minute nap and was woken by her text asking if he was awake yet - she was at outdoor mall a few miles down the road. I told her to come on by. Naturally, I went around the house tidying a bit!
So she gets here - she hasn't set foot in the place for awhile. Son hears her voice and is quite happy. She looks great....I always think she looks great. She has some stuff with her and takes a seat on the couch with our boy. She made a really cool art project with paint and construction paper for me with him....it was exactly like the one he made for her for mother's day at school. I was touched.
She then handed something for him to give to me. I unwrapped it and it was a little ceramic plate with his hand in the middle and "Daddy" at the top - with his name on the bottom. Greatest ever! It was a smaller version of the plate we made for her for mother's day - they made it for me at the same place. Again - touched.
Finally she gave me a really nice print of me and S together front the photo shoot a few months back. It was really nice. After I said my thank you's and gave my boy a hug she sat up on the couch and asked "Are you doing OK?" - I responsed "I'm doing great!" She said "Really?" - and I just said "yep!". This time I wasn't faking it too much - I have been feeling OK more or less.
By now, the dog has completely snuggled up to her. She rescued him years ago before we were even married or living together - and she left him with me when she left...pretty much abandoned him, didn't even ask me to keep him - just left him. I got a picture of her and the dog together and she asked me to send it to her because she doesn't have very many with him. Of course I sent them to her. She was really attached to the dog before the baby.....he was like her child. We talked a little bit and she asked if she could walk down the street to see the neighbors and their kids. She and S were gone for about 15 minutes or so.
When she came back, she had a seat on the steps and the dog mobbed her again. He has been sick lately and was limping. She was aware of it and I could see her tears welling up as he crawled back to her side. With tears in her eyes she said "I'm glad you're taking such good care of him". I told her that he was family and son's best friend in the house! She said that he would have destroyed her condo....kind of like she was trying to tell me why she couldn't take him with her. Truth be told, before she dropped the bomb she wanted to take him back to the shelter because her was having a hard time adjusting to the the noes house....peeing everywhere....barking a lot. I kept her from returning him.
I think that seeing the dog cling to her and seeing S happy here kind of had an impact on her. Just guessing, though....the tears over the dog were very real. She was very loving with him and you could tell she was hurt that he is sick.
We talked a little bit more - it was all upbeat and positive. I finally walked her to her car and she said "happy father's day" I'm glad you're his dad. I just smiled and said "so am I". She pulled out of the driveway and that was it.
It was a very positive interaction. I didn't ask her to hang out or anything....and I was not mopey at all. After the emotions she had last week I am starting to suspect that she might miss it here a little bit. For sure not enough to R or move back, but maybe a little.
She commented on how much more space S has here.....a big arse flat screen TV for his shows while she doesn't have a TV. The pool.....and so on. I dunno - maybe I am looking too much into it, but I felt like I made a nice deposit into the "positive" bank.
It felt good to have her here....rather bittersweet. I wonder what she is thinking/feeling right now.....don't worry, I'm not gonna dwell on it.
It was a very positive interaction. I didn't ask her to hang out or anything....and I was not mopey at all. After the emotions she had last week I am starting to suspect that she might miss it here a little bit. For sure not enough to R or move back, but maybe a little.
She commented on how much more space S has here.....a big arse flat screen TV for his shows while she doesn't have a TV. The pool.....and so on. I dunno - maybe I am looking too much into it, but I felt like I made a nice deposit into the "positive" bank. $$$ ca ching!!$$$$
It felt good to have her here....rather bittersweet. I wonder what she is thinking/feeling right now.....don't worry, I'm not gonna dwell on it.
Crimson, if You do dwell...so help me....#$%^&!!! Crimson [/quote]
Happy Father's Day...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I'm not! I swear!! Seriously!! I packed up son a went for a little drive/walk until the PHX heat got to us.
I did send her a text message thanking her for everything. She replied:
W: I'm still crying over Joe (the dog). Hitting me hard I guess. My first BFF in Arizona.
Me: He still loves and remembers you - he staples himself to you when you are here.
She replied with a crying face with tears. I guess it really did hit her. I was going to say "I'll take care of him, don't worry" - but then realized it was making it about me. Seems like these last few days might have been kinda sobering for her in a sense. Who knows.
So last night I decided to wrtite my W a nice thank you note for the things she brought over for Father's Day. Tried to be thoughtful and told her that I was glad that she made me a dad. And despite the rocky road we took to get there (IVF), I would do it over with her a million times if it meant that we would have a miracle like our S.
I also used it as a chance to express gratitude that being a father (and being in this situation) has contributed to me being a better man in general. Ironic that it took a 2 year old to help me be a man, no?
In a loving way, I told her that I finally felt as if I had direction on being the man that I was supposed to be - unafraid to walk a new path, be a great father and a better spouse (though I did not say to her specifically).
I dropped the letter off with her along with our S this morning. She smiled when I handed it to her - I wrote one of my "play" names for her on the envelope.
She asked me to come in and needed some help with her computer. We chatted briefy (left the car running) and then I left.
A little bit ago, she texted me: "Thanks for the letter. Sounds like you are healing well".
Didn't really respond to that. Didn't know how she "took" it, you know? Perhaps almost as if I was "over" her - which just isn't true at this point. I'm doing OK, but I still have feelings for her and I still don't want D. I just have stopped crying and whining and I only show her happy, content and positive.
A little bit ago, she texted me: "Thanks for the letter. Sounds like you are healing well".
Didn't really respond to that. Didn't know how she "took" it, you know? Perhaps almost as if I was "over" her - which just isn't true at this point. I'm doing OK, but I still have feelings for her and I still don't want D. I just have stopped crying and whining and I only show her happy, content and positive.
Crimson
It doesn't matter how she took it. It was another positive deposit.
There is nothing wrong with her saying that it sounds like you are healing well. That is a good thing. You are being positive and she is taking notice. Don't make anymore of it than it is.
The last few times that I have visited your thread, I picture you trying to run to the fireplace to put your hand back in and 25 smacking it with a fly swatter.
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
Crim , I agree with LITB, do not read anything into it but I do believe it was a deposit for sure. Whatever happens your head will be high and your son will one day know the man he turned you into.It is ironic that we have to go through something like this to get our heads on straight. I believe in my heart that if I ever have another chance at love, I will be the man that I wanted to be on the inside and I guess was afraid to show it. I kinda let my ex down in that regard. So hang tough my friend.....
That may be the best analogy ever, LITB. I am always looking for answers, meaning and explanations. In my career, it has served me well - in my personal life.....not so much.
I will chalk it up as a deposit/positive at the end of the day. Truthfully, there is nothing less attractive that me being a siffling wreck of a man still pining in front of her. What good would THAT do? She knows my feelings, she knows I still care.....that's about as good as it can get right now.
I had a friend tell me that it looks as if she is trying to open up and talk to me.....she said I need to try to get her to talk more openly and engage her when she says things like "No, I don't think you understand....". She said I should have said "I want to know more about how you feel....".
Ummmm, I am not sure about that. I think I am pretty OK right now letting her lead. I have learned that even my best-of-heart intentions can feel like pressure and end up being more harmful than anything else. I just don't think I am in a place to say "I am here to talk if you want to"......could be seen as pursuing. Thoughts?
OLW - it is sad that it took all of this to change, but I am glad that I am. I really want to be better for my W, but if not her someone. The Crimson that existed a year ago pretty much does not exist anymore.
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