Second, I'm so sorry for your situation. No matter what your situation was, your h is a lout to leave a pregnant w. It's as bad as women who cheat on h's in combat...both are just WAY out of line...I have few blacks & white rules, but these acts are just never okay.
That's what I am finding hard to deal with at the moment. What he must be saying (the mother of his children) about me to his friends, because they seem to find the situation completely acceptable!
Whether he's in MLC (sounds possible) or is a WAH, your course of action is identical. So don't spend too much time wondering...although if it helps you detach from the pain of it, then go for it.
I am an analyst by nature (and previous career!). This has helped me understand and come to terms with many horrendous ordeals I/we have gone through and learn how to deal with them, become detached, learn, develop and become a much stronger and better person for them. I MUST find out about things I am facing, then I learn to deal with them. As an analyst, you look outside the box. My thinking is much the same as MWD describes the 4 tunnels. I will always test each tunnel.
Originally Posted By: PennyHIll
I am going to need a formal decision from WAH a couple of weeks after the baby is born as to what his intentions are.
why are you rushing the choice? It will push him farther away as it's an ultimatum and if you've read the DB books, you know they are rarely advised.
[color:#3366FF]It is a decision he has already made. It's about clarity for the kids, because they don't understand what is going on. (They know only that he stays "with a friend" not OW) and the fact he wants the freedom to spend HIS money as soon as possible after the baby is born. The two weeks relate to his paternity leave. But after reading this I have given consideration. I need to assess how he is with the baby and see what his conclusions are. I appreciate when faced with his newborn, he is going to be even more confused and he is going to need as much time as I am to digest it.
IF there are financial reasons to protect yourself and your children, and you have reason to believe he's damaging your future security - then I do understand. But unless that's the case, have you really given this enough thought?
He wants HIS money (i.e. the money he previously earned to provide for his family) as soon as possible. He is already overspending without consideration (I am taking steps to protect myself financially). I have contacted one area of aid which is something as Brit will know the government provide to pretty much everyone (Child Tax Credits). That has now been suspended because I now need to put in a new claim as a single parent. Income support, which I will need to live on for the time being is difficult to get if it "looks like" you have a partner living with you and you are claiming as a lone parent. This is why, if he wants access to HIS money, he needs to be out of the family home so I can financially support the children. (Child support is another and separate thing to address). So which way do you suppose I am going to be seen as punishing him (in his mind - who knows?)
I worry that with the baby coming so soon, your "nesting" syndrome is acting up and you want clarity b/c you think that = security. But the deal is, he seems very UNclear. By forcing him to choose NOW, you may well not the choice you want and I don't know if waiting a bit, would really hurt.
I guess I have kind of answered this above.
So if he could possibly work through this, and then was restored, what would you feel then?
And do you worry that too much damage is being done that you won't be able to forgive? That's not a judgement of mine.
But if you don't think you can forgive him, and ultimately let go of this, then there's not a lot of reason to keep at this.
How Did you see forgiveness growing up?
I am VERY good at forgiveness. This is partly why I need to know about MLC etc. Even if it ends up not being the case, it doesn't give me false hope, but it helps me empathise (if not understand, because I do not know what is going on in his head!) with his thought processes. To forgive (to me) means to let go of anger (I don't know if even at the worst treatment I have received from a person if I have actually ever hated) and to move on. That doesn't necessarily mean bridges can be rebuilt, but it's about being at peace with yourself.
At the moment as far as I am concerned, he is leaving me to be with OW. why assume that? Why project negatively?
Because he has said so!
However, when this first came out before I knew about OW, he asked me what I wanted him to do. I'd told him it had to be his decision, and if he left he had to tell the kids. He was just worried about not having anywhere to live.
That's telling...he asked you this when you did not know of OW? First off, what is his love language?
("The Five Love Languages" book is excellent and you may want to read it, no matter what else happens. It's a good book for all). I have a feeling you are not give love to each other in ways you can both receive.
Second, I don't believe his question was "just b/c he was worried about not having a place to live." This is more mind reading on your part, and it's all negative?
It does not really help your situation. Give him something to live UP TO,...without having actual expectations that disappoint. It's a fine line but it's a worthy goal. My main question relates to why he'd ask you what YOU wanted him to do and you didn't just say "I want you to come home b/c I love you. I want you to be my h, help me raise our 3 kids and grow old together"...
what's with sounding as if you don't care either way?
[color:#3366FF]Ouch! That's a bit harsh! You have to understand that these transactions came about when he first said he wanted to leave. There is a lot that hapened and was said in that short space of time, heat of the moment, clutching at straws and being knocked for six! You don't follow the DB rules until after the event and have had time to digest things, and then you find out about the book!
FTR however, I did tell him what I wanted as you said above, "I love you, I need you I want us to remain a family, I want us to still be holding hands and watching our children with THEIR children. We can sort it out, we can seek help etc." I realised there have been many times that he has done "things" which we have argued about (seeking things outside the marriage) and he was basically wanting out, but with me making the decision for him i.e. kick him out. I feel if you are making a choice (MLC had never occurred to me at that point and I hadn't heard of DB!) you need to own and take responsibility for that choice. I was not going to be put in a position of been a scapegoat where he could tell the children that I wanted him to go.
Looking back, Is it possible he felt neglected in the marriage? A LOT Of men feel that way when the kids are young,
(one study of long term marriages, said couples report their lowest satisfaction period was after the birth of the 2nd child)
you now have a new, 3rd one on the way. [/color]
Very definitely, there are things on my part I am accountable for. Some of the things I was already addressing in my own journey of change, others are things that if he had communicated to me at the time, I would have addressed. Our DS is diabetic, our DD has selective mutism and DH is profoundly Deaf. I have always striven to keep each and everyone of them happy, with myself at the bottom of the list. There have been life choices made to accomodate DH's wants and desires which I went a long with, with reservations, but because I naively thought I was facilitating HIS happiness.
Then he said he was spending sometime with "a male friend" who turned out to be OW and he has been flitting between "home" and OW since. He has not told the kids of any decisions as yet.
PLease stop pressing him to CONFIRM the choices he's confused about making...that merely cements them into his brain.
I don't get it. Well, okay I fear that it's coming from a dark place in you. A place I recognize well...
you are very hurt, deeply wounded and angry and oh, btw, pregnant.
You want to shame and punish him and I truly do honestly understand that. But it will NOT help your situation.
Plus in the end, you'll want to be able to look at this time as one in which you were a woman of dignity and grace in the face of betrayal. Your children are watching you. Someday they too will face a betrayal or devastating setback. They'll remember how YOU behaved at this time and you want it to be healthy, as it will help them heal faster.
Beware of what you model for them.
So ask yourself each question this way, as I had to:
"Is this comment/action I'm considering, coming from a place of light and love/healthy self respect in me, OR is from my wounded pride and anger?"
Am I merely justifying a comment or action with the rationalization of 'this will teach him a lesson" or "show him the consequences of his actions" mantra, [color:#3366FF] Again, OUCH! Where does this harshness come from? Because I stated he hasn't told the kids of any decisions yet, where did you conclude that I am continually "verbally" pressing and pushing for decisions? (I apologise if I have physically written somewhere to that effect and forgotten it, but I certainly didn't intend things to be interpreted that way!) My thought processes and what I actually say or do in terms of actually interacting with him are two different things.
I DO generally think before I act. I DO consider every potential outcome of my actions. It has been said by a couple of close friends (who I have had to involve, because I may yet need their support for the birth and looking after the children) how controlled I have been (even pre DB!) and not done anything through a knee jerk reaction. I am not out to punish him by anymean, but my ultimate consideration has to be damage limitation (emotionally, mentally and financially) for the kids.
BUT Penny, as my DB coach said, "it's not the spouses job to teach them a lesson or show the consequences of their actions. LIfe does that."
Absolutely, I couldn't agree more!
This way, no regrets...and it makes you look, esp in contrast to OW, that much better. Besides, the more anger you show him, the more you will fuel his reasons for leaving and make him feel justified.
But your goal is to get him to second guess his choices...by showing change in YOU and how you two interact.
Exactly why I am NOT showing him anger, even if I am venting it here. I figure the bigger and better person I AM, the less justification he has for his actions. Already working on it!
BTW, what else did he SAY he was unhappy about? Did you fight a lot? Again, this was when it all came out, nothing has been discussed since. The main thing he said to ME was that he was "F'd" up by his childhood, it wasn't my fault, I wasn't to blame, he was a bad person. He can't go back. He always got things wrong. Whenever his parents argued with his siblings, he couldn't take it, he always ran from arguments and this is why he couldn't cope with us arguing.
My responses were, "you need closure on what has happened in the past, you are not a bad person, I know I have done things that need to be changed, we boh need to work on changing things, things can be fixed, we can get help for you to feel better, for the marriage to be better, we can do it together........"
Now as I stated above, we did start to have arguments. These were instigated by my easily coming across signs of his infidelity and lies. I can also reflect on things where he has wanted to do something or buy something which with my logic I have suggested is possibly not a good idea. Two examples: One, when we discussed paternity leave (when I thought we were ok) DH decided he wanted to take his final two weeks holiday straight on from paternity leave, so he would have a month off. Now I put it to him that it would be better to use the two weeks holidays just slightly further down the line, when the kids were off school for their summer holidays. If he took all the time off in one go, there wouldn't be any time for him to spend with the other two kids. Another situation was that we redecorated our small lounge (something he insisted on, I wasn't happy about doing it at that time, I thought it could wait, but I wanted to keep him happy). He absolutey wanted for it a sideboard he had seen. It was a piece that didn't have many co-ordinating pieces that could accompany it and those it did have were too big for the lounge. I spent days trying to find pieces that would go with it and look good in our lounge but couldn't. so I suggested we look at other alternatives. Now I feel that these and other situations have kind of been engineered by DH so that he could then say I stopped him doing something.
THEN he started to say things like he was fed up with coming back from work to a "dirty house" (people compliment me on my house!) and all his workmates wives had their teas ready for them on the table (well his would be plated up, because I never knew what time he was home!). He started to say that his friends thought I was weird, and his workmates thought I was weird. (They don't know me, and I have lots of friends who don't think I am weird so I must just have weird friends!). The only thing he could use to back up why they thought I was weird was because i don't go out getting drunk with friends?
Another thing he was clearly starting to resent (only since OW has been on the scene which was apparently within weeks of DH and I mutually decided we would try for another baby) was how I was spending HIS money. Now HIS money was spent on him, the kids and the household. Very rarely was anything spent on me. It was very noticeable when on becoming pregnant again after 7 years, I HAD to buy maternity clothes. For everything I bougt in a sale, he would buy himself designer stuff.
So yes, whilst I accept there are many things on my part that could have contributed to a less than happy marriage, those things could have been resolved through sharing of feelings and discussions. It isn't me in the dark place, or at least I am in the shadows. There is something far deeper going on with DH and he is going to have to work them out himself. He knows "somewhere" in his heart that despite all he is telling everyone else, I and the marriage itself are only a small portion of his problems. This is why I conclude MLC.
Focussing totally on him and what HE thinks/feels/plans makes you powerless (b/c you have no control over him)
AND it takes the focus off of you. You are the only person you can affect or change or control here.
I know and I am!
Since You are a flawed human like all of us, figure out which of your flaws are worth working on...for YOU to become the woman you want to become, a woman only a fool would leave.
So what are his complaints? What would HE SAY about you or the marriage that created his desire to leave?
ANY of it true? So how can you change those negative images & counter them with positive 180s?
Make him doubt his "data" about you. What would YOU like to change in you? Make him realize that marriage to you can be better/different than before.
B/c if that ^^ isn't true, he won't come back.
YOU Must show him that it can be better/different.
Make sense?
[/color]
I think I have pretty much answered all of this above. I know I can't second guess or mind read, but I feel he has tried to push various buttons, and they haven't worked and therefore he has had to go all out to try to make me hate him, because he is unhappy and he feels guilty and he is confused. And that isn't working much either!
I don't want it to come across as pushing an ultimatum (I know the answer is going to be her anyway) and I am not doing it to force him into a decision about our marriage. I don't want the door to be shut, I hope I am following LRT correctly. However, I need to know for the purpose of being able to claim financial support as a single parent.
Please can someone advise how to play it?
well I guess you sort of answered it.
You are not in our country so I guess that means in the UK (?) if you prove you are single, in effect, (not necessarily a legal state but a practical one??)
then if you really need the money, do what you have to do.
Someone has to put the kids first, and that would be you.
In this state (California, USA) I was able to file for a legal sep to protect our assets so my h didn't mortgage the house and sell off too many assets to "invest with his heroes" on the tundra in Alaska.
It didn't wake him up but it make me feel safer. And it didn't end the marriage w/a divorce.
Do you have Any options other than forcing him to choose OW, that still protect you?
IF NOT, then SAY something to him that explains you are not reacting in anger.
Say words that reflect this. You'd prefer it if you two could start fresh and keep the family together,
but you have to protect the children and your future...and that's why you are doing whatever it is you will do.
Also, here are two great answers for when he "revises" things or justifies his actions...
if he says something you truly don't recallthe same, or at all, don't dispute it.
Say "Wow I don't recall it that way, but I'm sorry you were upset/hurt by it."
[color:#3366FF]Good idea!
If he brings up something from the past that bothered him that you feel some responsibility for, or in which you blew it, to some extent or to a lot,
you say "IF I had it to do over again, there are LOTS of things I'd do differently."
I have done this
Neither answer escalates or argues or defends. Both answers show the potential for change in YOU and the marriage...
