So much to say, So little room

[RoofTop]

BAH!

What I was trying to say is -> My W is acting like she's got a plan all worked up in her head already that life's going to be just awesome now. As if everything is finally falling into place for her as she's dreamed it would for the past two years.

[TSquared2]

This is normal from what I have read...

"it don't mean nothin'...it don't mean a thing"

[AJM]

I know what you are thinking. Where you are. You don't see it yet, but you are honestly trying.. That's awesome.

No magic bullet. Takes time and effort and it will likely not be fun all the time.

Limbo and your expectations seem your immediate problems.

I suggest dealing with those immediate problems...immediately.

You may not like what you see, what happens next. But I assure you, you only have to watch as long as you want. When you decide, you may stop. If you want to be friends, you may. If you decide otherwise, then you may do that too. You have everyone else's permission if you need it...

Whatever happens, outside of her choices, will be because of your choices. Choose wisely because your kids are watching.

Can I ask you something?

Are you worth fighting for? I wasn't at that stage when I was there. I heard much of the same stuff except the apologies. And mine moved back to my neighborhood vs closer to the OM.

Something to ponder. Good work on the meetup. Keep at it!

AJ

[tested metal]

My STBXW thought that everything was falling into place too soon after she left the relationship. Since then she has been beated by OM, dang near was homeless for 2 weeks, and has been puking blood for the last 5 weeks.

It's all just a house of cards. Keep your head low, do your own thing, and just be patient.

Good luck!

[seeking answers]

RT,

Right after my H moved out and in with ow, he was ecstatic and full of life. Something I hadn't seen from him in a couple years.

It didn't last long when reality hit and he found out that the problems he thought he could run from followed him and multiplied. His untreated depression returned.

Just be patient and at some point you will see that all isn't what it seems. There are consequences when you break up a family. It will become clearer to her at some point. Right now she's on a high from getting her freedom. The other side of that for her will be when she falls. Let her go and put your focus on yourself and your kids.

Good job on the Meet Up GAL.

[RoofTop]

AJ - Perfect timing.

I was logging in this morning to spit out a rant, but it would seem I have made a left turn or something. What you say makes sense. I know the choices are mine to make at this point, but as I've recently discovered in the past month, I have repressed feelings. I can't get those dvd's on EFT from the library fast enough!

So I'm not angry right now (anymore), but I'd still like to share what gave me reason to "pop off" internally. Today is Friday and my W doesn't work on Friday's. She's supposed to come and get the kids so I can get into the office and it’s more of a hassle for me to meet her “in the middle” somewhere because I work within walking distance of my house. We both knew she was coming to get the kids this morning since she asked me how we were going to co-ordinate this the other day. I told her we’d do it like we did last week where she would text me when she’s close and I’d head into the office.

This serves 2 purposes, the obvious is that I don’t want to see her, the other is that I want to let the kids sleep a bit longer since it’s summer.

Well…..Things were not going according to plan today as they had last week. It was running close to 7:30 and I was running 30 minutes late getting into work. This is not a big issue since I have pretty flexible hours so it’s not the reason I was getting irritated. I was getting antsy because I didn’t want to be home when she came for the kids. I’ve gone dark on my W and I don’t like having to acknowledge her right now since I am a bit upset. So I risked sending her a text vs. having to see her……

“Are you on your way by chance?”

W: “ Is this how it’s going to be? You avoiding being in the same room with me. I’m trying to show the kids we are not like other people. We can be in the same room and talk to each other. I’ll be there in a few minutes.”

Her text sent me into P.O’ed mode. If she’s showing the kids anything, she’s showing them that it’s okay to quit because everything’s better when you drop everything and “try to” remove yourself from the problem. I bit back my frustration when I replied back:

“No <WIFE>. It’s because my work schedule starts at 7 and the sooner I get into the office, the less time I need to make up.”

W: “OK, just seems that way. You wouldn’t even look at me yesterday.”

ARE YOU FLIPPING KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She’s crapped on my existence for the past two years! She didn’t even speak to me for almost the entire first year of MLC and somewhere in the past two years she finds the courage to tell me she doesn’t look at me because she doesn’t want me to get the wrong message! What message? The one that says I’ve made her life miserable because I beat her, called her names, yelled at her or belittled her in public/private situations?! Couldn’t have been any of those, because I’ve never done any of that to anyone I’ve ever been with including her. So she noticed that I didn’t “watch” her the other day when I picked up the kids. Big hairy deal.

I didn’t reply to this message. I was trying to calculate my response to imply complete neutrality on the subject. I believe the Big Guy upstairs was giving me a hand on this one because within 5 minutes of her last text she sent another one changing the subject. I’m very glad to have dodged that bullet.

So…. Limbo and expectations. Agreed. I can choose to be what I want and I like to think that I do for the most part. I do know that I fail and I know I will continue to fail until something pops up and takes over the spotlight. It’s how I am. It’s why it’s no big deal for me to go dark on my W. I do love her greatly, but I’ve always had trust issues and that’s gotten in the way of all my relationships, both male and female.

The last time I had a roommate in college, he fooled around with one of my girlfriends. He was the closest I ever had to a male friend like in the movies where 2 dudes grow up together and are bonded for life and quite honestly, I unfairly chalk up every guy I meet as being the same as him. It gets in the way of developing male friendships. It doesn’t matter that I knew I wouldn’t be with her forever, it’s the betrayal of trust in someone you held as more accountable.

As for my W, I’m not angry that I trusted her with my heart and it went this way. I am worth fighting for. I’ve had a lot of people through the years of my marriage tell me and my W how great I am as a husband. It wasn’t until MLC that I realized why that always made me feel so uneasy. I had faults, I knew I wasn’t being the best for my W, but I worked with the tools I had, not knowing any better. I’m worth fighting for because I acknowledge those faults and I’ve charged head first into not just making changes, but making them permanent. The changes were once for my W, but as I noticed my own quality of life was improving I knew they were for me. My W has recognized them and likes them, but still only thinks they are temporary and only a way for me to try and get her back.

I also realized recently that this is how my W copes with hardship. She’s a runner who survives by diving headfirst into the next pool. She'd compared me to her last failed relationships by saying that just like all the others, nobody cared until she had had enough and had one foot out the door.

I’m worth fighting for because I’m not like the others. I could go into a laundry list of what makes me different, but proof enough is in my relationship with her parents. They’ve told me several times over the years that they knew on the first meeting with the “others” that they would fail. They knew with me that I was different. Her closest aunt told me she knew we’d be together forever because I was the first to get past my W’s infamous 2 year trial run and seeing us together only made her believe in us that much more.

Everyone knows I’m not like the “others”, I know I’m not like them. The question I keep asking myself is if I’m holding on for me, the kids, my W or her families expectations. I guess I'm kind of looking for an answer to that once my W moves her stuff out and I can begin taking the physical part of my life back.

[AJM]

Ok, good. You feel you're worth fighting for.

But let me ask this differently (before Jack chimes in :0): Does your wife see you that way? Does she see you the same way others do? Does what you value matter to her in the same way? What's important to her? Do you know? You've done a good job so far of analysing her. Guess what? She has and is doing the same.

As for the text, why did you lie (she obiously can tell)? What do you have to gain/lose by telling the truth at this point? Why not tell her the truth? You're not happy with the way things are. You don't want to look at her or interact with her. You don't agree with her concept of friendship. You don't agree with the idea that sends to the kids? Your values are your values. Your opinions are your opinions. You are both entitled to them, right?

She’s crapped on my existence for the past two years! She didn’t even speak to me for almost the entire first year of MLC and somewhere in the past two years she finds the courage to tell me she doesn’t look at me because she doesn’t want me to get the wrong message! What message? The one that says I’ve made her life miserable because I beat her, called her names, yelled at her or belittled her in public/private situations?! Couldn’t have been any of those, because I’ve never done any of that to anyone I’ve ever been with including her. So she noticed that I didn’t “watch” her the other day when I picked up the kids. Big hairy deal.

Those are examples of things important to you, but what about what's important to her? Not even sure she can articulate them, but it needs to be known...right?

You can look back over my thread and see I come by these questions honestly. I knew I didn't want to be friends with my ex the way she wanted to. I didn't want to send that message to my kids. It's not who I am. I am not willing to change that about me. I know that. I stand by that. But I could have written your post and see things now I could have asked and done differently. I have no regrets, but I do see room for improvements

Just questions mostly...
AJ

[RoofTop]

I don't know. I've thought extensively on it, written out mental notes. What does she value? I've racked my brain for months on end on this one. I thought about who I was when we met, who "WE" were for the early years after child birth, the middle years, and many things that happened in the past few years.

I don't know what she values because she's living a different life from well before me. I've thought in depth on that too. My faults, that I recall bothering her, are:

- Lack of help around the house.
- Lack of effort to maintain me.
- I was more affectionate to the kids vs. my W.

Basically all around self centered individual, to sum up much ot the other stuff.

So I understand much of her effort to go out and party and the feeling of being noticed and appreciated. Before we met, she was always one to have Dude's buy her drinks all night, but I failed to lavish her with that kind of appreciation. I get that.

And yet.....

My W is...

- Very strong willed
- Would literally do anything for a friend
- has intensely strong family values

Something else that is a cause of confusion for me. My W got breast augmentation 5 months into MLC. I recall an evening within a week of the operation where we were laying in bed and I was scratching her back ( at her request ). She started crying and told me that the augmentation wasn't what she thought it would be. She wasn't in pain, I think she was talking about how it didn't make her feel like she thought they would.

What I've done:

- Started taking care of me, regular haircuts, shaving, new wardrobe, consistent exercise.
- Stopped being critical of other people ( it's because I was unhappy about me ).
- Stopped being outwardly anxious or negative in my actions and speech.
- Took on more responsibility with upkeep around the house and have been consistent for almost all of the past 2 years of MLC.
- Stopped talking and started listening when my W finally opened up with her feelings.
- Stopped saying I can't and became completely "can do" about everything.

My W wants to feel appreciated. I know she does, but my problem for the past 2 years has been that she couldn't stand to be around me in order for me to offer appreciation -> Its' always been the same in that nobody cares until she's got 1 foot out the door.

She can't stand to be around me because she feels beneath me. I'm very confused about what she values.

I gave up my social life over the years since all my friends were female and I was committed to my W. All of my friends had been "our" friends, but she was the organizer that brought it all together. I know it bothers her that I don't have a social life. I'm pretty sure she felt pressured to make me happy over the years and she tried hard. So being dependent on me as the majority bread winner in the house probably doubled her resentment. So there's extra motivation for me to make new social circles.

As for why I lied when I sent my text? Technically it wasn't a lie if it was true and I was being truthful. I just avoided the "whole" truth. I still don't know yet how to handle my W so I'm being very distant because I don't approve of her decision. Telling her I don't approve may very well prove to be more fuel to drive her further along her path. I don't know.

I was frustrated for much of today. I took a half day at work today because I had my consultation with the lawyer today ( I'm screwed ) and I was going to come home before the meeting until I saw her car in the garage. Then she called me about Fathers Day, again stressing how "hard" she's working on our friendship. She's so adamant about the kids seeing that we're just great together, yet apart. She said she asked S12 about taking us all to breakfast and he said no because that would make "me" angry. I was not happy that he said that because it was dishonest.

I told her there was nothing special that I wanted and that I couldn't do breakfast because I have plans - Meetup group event so I wasn't lying. I was then further disappointed that she was home when I came home. I know she was intentionally trying to be around to show the kids that we don't "hate" each other. I was having difficulty not thinking about the day I can change the locks. I don't like feeling like this.

My kids opted to stay with me this weekend which kind of suprised me. I took the opportunity tonight to talk to S12 about what he told his mom about me being angry about going to breakfast on Fathers Day. He told me he didn't want to do that because if we couldn't be together, he failed to see how it would help anything. I informed him that that was a far better response to have told his mom vs telling her it would make me angry.

I reassured him that he should feel comfortable talking to us about how he feels - and he's uber pissed at his mom. I also told him that it's important that he tell his mom what's in HIS heart and not use me as a reason. I told him I was neither here nor there in regards to his mother, that while I respect her decision, I'm not losing any sleep over it. I love her more than she may ever really know, but I agreed with his feelings about breakfast together and that it wouldn't help matters.

I don't know what my next step is right now so I'm going to focus on midterms this coming week.

[AJM]

Good morning Arty (or RT).
There's more to the story perhaps? I'm thinking there are some things left out, but some of the clues point strongly as to why things are going on. You don't have a lot of input in this ride...

But you can control your actions. They are very important, especially right now for your W and your kids. No matter the outcome between you and W.

As for why I lied when I sent my text? Technically it wasn't a lie if it was true and I was being truthful. I just avoided the "whole" truth. I still don't know yet how to handle my W so I'm being very distant because I don't approve of her decision. Telling her I don't approve may very well prove to be more fuel to drive her further along her path. I don't know.

And yet, somehow lying is better? I'll have to disagree with you there. I've been there and while my situation was a little different (she hated me and had many conversations in her head long before I got there. Those just fueled her fire..) I can tell you that lying gets you nothing. Everyone sees through it so fast you won't be done with the sentence before she knows it. It may be that you aren't ready to share with her, but it's ok to tell her that. It's ok to tell her you don't know if you can be friends with her. You'd like to get back to her on that one after some more thought about what you want from her. (note, that will likely make her really upset but the truth is something the two of you lack is it not?) What I'm getting at is that you are not telling the truth. She knows that. That is just going to breed mistrust as well it should.

Why not just be "wholly" honest?

One other thought. You already have an idea why she wants to be friends and why your son says BS right? Your actions here and now will shape his life for a very long time (that's always been the case, but...) Figure out exactly what you want him to learn from this and what he should value according to your values. Do it sooner than later though.. That would be my suggestion.

Happy Father's Day!

AJ

[Kimmerz]

Hi rooftop,
just wanted to say my XH did the same thing after leaving. Gee all the sudden the clouds parted, the sun was shining and the birds were singing. He did tell me he felt happier and healthier by himself, but was painfully lonely. A few weeks later, enter OW, whom I think he's been having an EA with for 6 years or more.

Oh and yes...he wanted to be best friends, and it drove me insane. I could not undertand how this person could spew such nasty venom towards me then turn right around and act like it never happened and text me till the cows come home. Talking about everything under the sun..talking like we never really had before. It gave me false hope. So I called him out on it. His response? " Im sorry I never broke up with anyone before. I thought that's what you did when you were friends with someone. You acted friendly". And just like that I was reduced from wife to a good aquaintence.

Within the last 14 months he moved out, filed for divorce, moved in OW 2 months after leaving, I got an attorney, and we are now divorced. And in the last 14 months this is what Ive seen happen to him:

Life has hit him very hard due to the REALITY of divorce and the reality of his choices. His finances are horrible, he doesn't see his kids as much as he wants, his kids don't want to spend anymore time with him than necessary, his kids hate the OW, he owes the IRS money for not claiming a significant amount of money he hid from me and the IRS, the person he wanted to keep in his life regardless of divorce (me) won't have anything more to do with him than absolutely necessary, and his wonderful OW wouldn't get a job and free loaded off him for almost a year. His back problems have returned along with his migraines....which I know as his EX WIFE, it physically manifests in him when mentally it's getting pretty tough.

Is he depressed? I have no idea he doesn't really act like it according to the kids, but then again I don't see him or talk to him anymore. When the kids are with him and OW... OW keeps her distance and it's all about him and the girls. This has been going on for 6 months now. Figured OW would be making an attempt to connect with them by now, but she doesn't. He's the master of covering up real issues, running, putting his head in the sand and detatching from anything at the drop of a hat if it bothers him. I hardly have any contact with mutual friends/his family and when I do see them I don't ask and they don't tell.

So....realistically life always finds a way to make it very real in a person's life, just as it's done to us LBS's. I think when these MLCers decide they're leaving, they really paint a fantasy in their minds, and the truly believe that fantasy will stay true to the end. I think at the beginning, for them part of the fantasy is true, which is just feeling free and therefore more empowered. Because they feel good, they don't understand why everyone else feels so bad, nor do they truly GRASP the concept of how betrayed and hurt everyone is. In their minds they chalk it up to " oh the kids will adjust. Everyone else will just get used to it and accept it. They'll move on and be ok".

To me that's their justification for their choices. Really not being able to step outside their immediaite circle, and look at both sides of the coin. How their actions affect our reactions, and vice versa.