but is their memory sketchy from one day to the next?
oh.h3ll.yes! Sometimes from one hour to the next, even one minute to the next...seriously.
I just keep a journal, for MY sanity, of things W said...you can't trust them or believe them regarding anything right now, they are spinning stories from the past, creating stories for now, and what they think the future is... it's just crazy. And you can't argue with someone who is baking sheets of crazy bread on greased pans...
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but he can no longer deny things and put it on me.
They will do it anyway...it does get comical with practice and detachment...you'll see.
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Thank you so much for that confirmation, T. I started writing things down, too, because my H would call me crazy, delusional, etc. and early on I was starting to wonder.
I'm guessing it's also typical that MLCers find their safe place. For my H it's work. He currently has 150 vacation hours and continues to accrue. Now that's crazy! But I've always known that he gets the most validation from his staff and upper management. They all adore him. When he was forced to layoff about 100 people several years ago he actually got a standing ovation after he gave a heartfelt speech about their service to the company. It was an extremely painful time. We both cried when he came home that night.
oh, and also... I had to begin to make all "important" conversations be by email only, so I had a record of things. I did have to go back through emails a few times to clear things up between us.
It helps us and honestly, I think it helps them, as well...
I really feel like I'm just done. Being able to finally have an unemotional conversation with my H underscored that. Something has shifted in me. Am I finally at the place where all of you veterans have encouraged me to get to? Is this "dropping the rope?" Now I can finally focus on forgiving myself for the mistakes I made. I no longer care what my H thinks caused him to leave. I really don't. I have spent over six months thinking about how he feels and I spent a good amount of that time accepting his truth. He continues to feel justified and takes absolutely no responsibility for himself and I made it so easy for him to do that. No wonder he is so quick to answer the phone when I call. Each conversation is a wonderful opportunity for him. Why couldn't I have been in this place from the very beginning?
GM, first let me tell you, many of the people on here have heard some variation of the, "I have to put myself first for once" speech. And yes, they forget what they say.
Good for you that you are starting to realize your truth. You are going to go back and forth and have some backslides for awhile.
But please dont regret the journey you have been taking. Each step of it is very important to go through and work through. You dont want to skip any if you want to get to the other side.
So, keep taking the focus off of him. Figure out who you want to be and how to get there.
Yes...we must really remember we know the real truth.
It's really hard when someone is twisting things so intensely you start to question your own sanity over and over, and realize " Now wait a minute, it didnt happen that way!"
One thing I've told myself over and over throughout this entire journey is " the truth shall set you free"
And it really does.
If our MLCer's are lucky and embrace reality, the truth will set them free too!
You got some really good advice, GM. Some good background. I was very skeptical about this stuff for a long time. Part of the reason it took so long to "get it" for me.
Keep that log. Keep things to email. Keep a recording. Not so you can throw it in his face later. In fact, don't let him ever see it or know about it. I had to do the same thing. Mine lived with me for over two years during much of the earlier parts. I thought I was losing my mind. I felt schizophrenic for the longest time. I felt depressed. I felt unworthy of anything. I lost my self-esteem.
So I started writing things down. I ended up with over two volumes (yes, volumes) of junk. I wrote a daily diary filled with all kinds of things. I recently ran across one of those while cleaning out a closet. I read some of what I wrote and laughed at the absurdity of the situation. Sad and twisted don't come close to how I felt and what I saw after 23 years together and married for 20. It was unthinkable.
But as many have pointed out, it's him. He has something he needs to address. He may never figure it out and that's sad. He lost a great thing in his family and that's even sadder. He may lose his boys for a very long time. But he was going to do this to whomever he married.
There was another poster who's wife, after 26 years of marriage, and just before their renewal (her idea) told him she didn't love him because he wouldn't take her to her favorite store (one reason given).
What you'll see is that they'll come up with ANYTHING they can think of. They'll have the conversation many times in their heads before you get invited to the conversation (the times you do). It'll sound really odd when it comes out of their mouths. Crazy even.
Is it crazy? Or is he trying to change things to make the pain and depression stop? I suggest the latter from what I've seen.
For us, we bear the brunt. They destroy as much of us as they can to help them justify themselves. They talk funny. They put forward the lamest excuses to justify their behavior (left the cap off the toothpaste so I HAVE to leave her. Really?) They put it forward so strongly that they convince everyone around them that they "needed" to divorce you. It was the only reasonable thing to do. Anyone with half a brain can see through it
Those that are far enough out of the situation know better. Those that are too close get sucked in just as we did.
We are, at the end, saddened that all along they had the key and we could see it plainly. But they are h@ll bent on this path. They will continue to do it over and over again until they get it. They'll suffer enormously and want it to be somebody else's fault (ours.) They'll get mad that we move on. They'll get mad that we don't. They'll get mad. They'll tell themselves they deserve to be happy and we are in the way. Our family is in the way. If we could just erase the past...except, what about the kids? What about the intervening 20+ years? What about...? Rinse and repeat. Some try to drown it out. Some get remarried quickly (like mine) or turn to drugs, alcohol, sex, etc. Anything to get away from the pain.
When all is said and done, they may have a clarifying moment and the guts to say something. We may be around to hear it. Not likely for most of us though and that's OK; we will have healed by then. We'll be long gone because we were pushed aside and run over by the bus enough to stay away. We finaly "get it" that we can't come on this journey no matter how much they push and pull.
Do they forget? Oh yes. It's a sign of them continuing to try and figure things out when they tell you they never said such a thing. It's a sign of the turmoil in their heads. It's a protection mechanism that indicates they know that was wrong but have no other way to deal with it right now. At least that's how I see it...
But they say it because they feel it at the time they said it. Mine denies saying she never loved me. Why? I dunno, but I think it's because she doesn't like the idea she wasted that much of her life with somebody she didn't love. But at the time I think it opened a path to a logic bomb she had to reconcile and couldn't (the affair and leaving must have been my fault right?) So she said it. If I hadn't written it down, I might have thought I was crazy
I don't think you should think of your time as wasted with him. You loved him. You still do. But you have to stay away and set your boundaries. That's important because otherwise you wasted a lot of years in my opinion.
The selfishness is a symptom of them trying to fix what's wrong with them in my opinion. The forgetting and re-writing are a symptom of their mind (ego,psyche, etc.) trying to protect itself. It may not end if they don't find the answers. If they keep running from the truth and consequences.
It has nothing to with you or the kids. You are the bystander on this path. An IED went off and you were very close
Keep that journal. Keep that perspective and understand it wasn't about you. Understand that on a long term timeline things will be very different because you are very different.
It gets better. Along the way it is sometimes amusing and sometimes infuriating. But it does get better when YOU make it so. You are the only one that can make things better for you and the kids. Only you. Nobody else. No matter what.
As the anger subsides, realize that it wasn't you that caused this. It isn't you that can fix it even if you can see the key. Even if it seems absurd why he leaves. Realize you did love him and he you. Realize that's over now, but it did happen and you are NOT crazy. From what I can tell
Peace! AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I really need advice. While S12 was staying with my parents he made plans to see my H today. My son knows that he needs to consult with me first since I may have plans that he is unaware of. I found this out an hour before my H was going to pick my son up. After calling several times my H finally called back when he was on his way here. I calmly explained that we were busy all weekend and that I wasn't consulted when the plans with him were made. I then ended the conversation. A few minutes later he sent a text to my son asking what our plans were. In order to keep my son out of it I called my H and asked him what it was that he wanted to know. He said he was trying to figure out if we really had plans or if I was just saying that. I told him that I don't have to answer to him. I told him if he wants to be a committed father and take the boys for a weekend that would be fine, but it's not ok to fit them in for a few hours during the day, but keep his evenings free. I am not a babysitter. He doesn't just get to decide that he's done being a father for the day and drop them back off with me. This has been a huge problem. The last few times my son was out with him I received a phone call that either he wanted to be picked up or that he had already been dropped off. This just can't continue. I also told him he needed to be truthful with the boys about his life. If he doesn't want to be with them for more than a few hours then he needs to explain it to them. I no longer want them to have to come to me. It puts me in the middle and I don't have any answers. I just know that he is not putting them first. My H accused me of wanting to know what he's up to. That may have been true at one time, but I told him that I was more than done with him and that's the truth. At the end of the call he said "you have completely lost your mind" and then hung up. This is so typical. When he doesn't get his way he says you're crazy, you're dillusional, as always you don't know what you're talking about, etc. I feel like he's being abusive by saying those things. He has done this our entire marriage when I voice my opinion or stand up for myself. He may not agree, but why the need to accuse me of being crazy, etc.
For so long I believed that I was asking for too much or there was something wrong with my way of thinking. I was too afraid of being abandoned to really stand up for myself so allowed this. Now that I am I get more of the same. Why in his mind is there always something wrong with me? Why doesn't he have the ability to see that he's being hurtful and abusive? Is this some kind of disorder? I really can't remember a time when he gave a heartfelt apology for anything. He has been wrong so many times, but he puts his energy into arguing that it's my fault because I don't know what I'm talking about, etc.
My focus completely shifted after he told me that he would no longer put the boys first. I was and am absolutely disgusted by that. I will no longer allow him to disrupt my weekend by picking either of the boys up for a few hours when it suits him. He doesn't get to just drop them back off with me because he needs to move on to other plans or he can't figure out what to do next. I have allowed that for six months while I stuffed my feelings. I just won't do it anymore. It really is time that he realizes his actions have consequences. The day he left to find "peace and happiness" he abandoned his children. I just don't see it any other way. I've tried to understand it. I've prayed for guidance, etc. I've tried to stand for my marriage. I'm just done. I have nothing left. I'm tired of fighting. I'm tired of having to erect boundries to protect myself. I'm tired of all the blame and spewing. Oh, how I wish I could leave and find peace and happiness without considering anyone else or my responsibilities.
So, what am I missing? Am I simply still too attached and that's why I get so rattled or do I have a screw loose?
golf mom, Your screws are still in tight...no screws loose in your brain. When he says things about the fact that you've completely lost your mind, well, he's projecting. It is his way of deflecting the truth of what you've told him. He doesn't want to admit that what you've said is the truth. Why? Because if he agreed w/you, that would mean that reality has set in.
Yes, he considers you the babysitter and when he gets tired of playing Disney Dad, he can then drop his son off and say that he spent time w/him. A sad case of selfish "me" song, if you ask me. I'm glad you called him on his bs today.
Don't drink the kool-aid he is serving up. In fact, I believe you deserve a nice cold long island ice tea!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
