My wife is involve in an EA with a guy from out of state. To be brief, we have gone downhill and she is moving out this weekend into an apartment. You can read details under Walk Away Spouses forum under topic "oh crap, here we go again."
When I first found out about the other guy, I confronted the wife. We were also going through other problems. She ultimately said she wanted to work on our marriage as we have almost 20 years invested. (I'm really shortening details here to give a thumbnail sketch.) She said she told him their communications were improper and he agreed to stop also.
For several weeks, I thought things were 180 degrees better. UNTIL I FOUND OUT SHE WAS STILL COMMUNICATING WITH HIM from her work email and work phone. Another blow up with the wife and I told her to leave.
The same day, I called him. He first tried to make it sound like he was just an old high school friend who had reconnected with a classmate. After confronting him with facts (times of calls/texts, number of connections, etc.) he admitted it was improper, but he hasn't seen her in 10 years.
I asked if he knew she was married and had two children. I asked if he knew he ruined a marriage as we were divorcing. He said he felt terrible but he thought she was going to work on the marriage. I asked how she could if he was still in the picture. He ultimately said he would tell her they would no longer be in contact and he felt terrible. I almost believe him and wonder if my wife is egging this on. He said he would cancel his upcoming trip to our hometown (high school reunion).
My wife is still moving out this weekend. I assume at this time she is still thinking about him. I noticed on the computer history today that she has been in contact with him as of this morning on facebook.
I am not going to do anything until I discuss with the counselor next week. I previously told my wife I was still going to fight for my marriage even after she moved out. I would continue to honor my vows as long as I wore my ring. I want to contact the other guy and tell him I am still fighting for her. To tell you the truth, I half way thought he MIGHT discontinue conversations based on my talk with him. I almost want to threaten him with exposure if he continues with her. I know if he does stop and he tells her I contacted him, it may do more damage between us. Should I care?
My question is this? Has anyone EVER been successful in this approach or has it backfired.
After reading this again, I know I sound like an idiot but I am still on the roller coaster and am still dizzy. Any response is helpful....
My wife is involve in an EA with a guy from out of state. To be brief, we have gone downhill and she is moving out this weekend into an apartment. You can read details under Walk Away Spouses forum under topic "oh crap, here we go again." I have not read that thread, so maybe my advice would be different. Is this a fair summary of that post?
When I first found out about the other guy, I confronted the wife. We were also going through other problems.
what was your goal in confronting him over the phone? Have you read the Div busting books, either of them? PLEASE DO SO ASAP
no doubt you have other problems b/c these EAs don't spring up out of nowhere. That isn't me blaming you but it is an attempt for you to not over simplify things. I have a feeling that the OM may have simply been a catalyst for your w to want out of the marriage as it has been unhappy for her for awhile.
did you ever tell your w how YOU COULD CHANGE to improve the m?
She ultimately said she wanted to work on our marriage as we have almost 20 years invested. (I'm really shortening details here to give a thumbnail sketch.) She said she told him their communications were improper and he agreed to stop also.
For several weeks, I thought things were 180 degrees better. why did you believe that? How were things better?
UNTIL I FOUND OUT SHE WAS STILL COMMUNICATING WITH HIM from her work email and work phone. Another blow up with the wife and I told her to leave.
but what if you had NOT confronted or snooped and instead just kept working on the marriage?
IOW, what if you were right and things were improving - but she wasnt' yet ready to let go?
The same day, I called him. He first tried to make it sound like he was just an old high school friend who had reconnected with a classmate. After confronting him with facts (times of calls/texts, number of connections, etc.) he admitted it was improper, but he hasn't seen her in 10 years.
I asked if he knew she was married and had two children. I asked if he knew he ruined a marriage as we were divorcing. Seriously? I mean, do you really truly believe 1) your wife wants out of the marriage AND 2) IF SO, that it's all or even mainly b/c of a guy she hasn't seen in 10 years?
what about your "other problems"? You have said virtually nothing about those so I have no idea what you "fighting for the marriage" would look like-does she?
Other than confronting OM and your wife, repeatedly, what does "Fighting FOR" the marriage look like to you? So far the constant snooping and confronting has only forced them underground so far. It is NOT helping your situation to confront and snoop.
You know what you have to work on in you, right? Then the snooping does nothing more for you but makes it worse. you are obessing and not focussing on what needs changing in YOU.
OH this is SO important to realize-
YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER WHAT THEY DO - SO STOP PRETENDING YOU DO...LET THEM GO...
YOU ONLY CONTROL YOU...
He said he felt terrible but he thought she was going to work on the marriage. I asked how she could if he was still in the picture. He ultimately said he would tell her they would no longer be in contact and he felt terrible. I almost believe him and wonder if my wife is egging this on. He said he would cancel his upcoming trip to our hometown (high school reunion).
My wife is still moving out this weekend. I assume at this time she is still thinking about him. I noticed on the computer history today that she has been in contact with him as of this morning on facebook.
You say you want to work on the m, right? Okay, good. So how on earth does more snooping help you do that? ANSWER: It does not.
and don't mind read that she's always still thinking about him. You don't know what she is thinking or feeling. How old are your kids and what are they up to now?
I am not going to do anything until I discuss with the counselor next week.
well thank God for that! There is no rush. This is a marathon- not a sprint.
I previously told my wife I was still going to fight for my marriage even after she moved out. I would continue to honor my vows as long as I wore my ring. I want to contact the other guy and tell him I am still fighting for her. To tell you the truth, I half way thought he MIGHT discontinue conversations based on my talk with him. I almost want to threaten him with exposure if he continues with her. possibly the worst idea you've had. this ALWAYS makes the LBSer look like a loser and the OM like a rescuer. People will NOT condemn her or him, if that's what you think. It's almost the opposite.
YOU Will be shunned, not him. You will be making them uncomfortable with your pain, and since your real goal is to shame him, that looks petty and vindictive, (and it is) which is not attractive. Sorry, but this always hurts the cause. I have seen LBSers do it, including on FB and on high school class FB pages too. I have never seen it help, and have only seen it backfire.
Plus if you want the marriage to be saved you must Keep the Road Home, Paved and Smooth.
The more people who know about this, the harder it would be for her to come back.
I know if he does stop and he tells her I contacted him, it may do more damage between us. Should I care?
of course you should care...(WTH does that question mean if you are "fighting for the marriage"....hurting things between you is NOT fighting for your marriage).
My question is this? Has anyone EVER been successful in this approach or has it backfired. I have seen marriages survive affairs but no, I have not seen them survive with what your approach seems to be.
You have said your peace to the OM, and to your w. Now she needs to believe marriage to you could be better/different and you need to show her that.
OM is a symptom and nothing more.
He deserves no more of your time or energy b/c that takes your focus off what is important, which is you becoming a man only a fool would leave.
After reading this again, I know I sound like an idiot but I am still on the roller coaster and am still dizzy. Any response is helpful....
I'm going to submit a post from another woman. She had left her h for OM but the lbs H wanted to make things work. He made changes that were needed and then wondered why she had not yet returned...
One question she asked which I hope you'll consider, is whether you want to work on THIS marriage to this woman, meaning making some really deep changes in yourself
or if you just want to "win" b/c an OM is involved...
it's really important to ask yourself that.
FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET AND HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….
When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than. I even got chills when she talked about the FB issues, because I've been there and done that, bought the t-shirt Of course, my H went a step further and cheated, then left, adding an extra crunchy layer of goodness to my sitch.
One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H. Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes. So, I can see where your W is coming from. When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.
Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time. And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought. Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope. You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.
And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to win.
Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win.
Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell. ______________
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
You spoke your peace with the OM, now leave it be. Anything further looks like WEAK PURSUIT, and actually DIMINISHES your power. You said what needed to be said, and you run the risk of treating anything he says as the TRUTH. At BEST, it will be self-saving SPIN, and at WORST it will be outright lies. Cheaters lie -- PERIOD.
As for your wife, I suggest you LET HER GO, and use this time to work on yourself.
I worked an hour on providing additional information to your questions and responses. My computer glitched and rebooted and I lost all my work. Maybe there was a reason for that.
Since then, I got off the phone with a man in our Christian group who is also married to one of W's dear friends. I read him my post and your answer, along with the other answers received. He thought you were right on point. He provided additional help which greatly helped my understand the issue.
AS OF NOW, I WILL NOT CONTACT THE OM, even though I desperately feel a NEED to do it. The responses received on this website helps bring me back to reality when I need it the most, at just the right time.
I just reread every response and EVERY one is right on. Thanks! I am seeing a little clearer right now....
My wife is involve in an EA with a guy from out of state. To be brief, we have gone downhill and she is moving out this weekend into an apartment. You can read details under Walk Away Spouses forum under topic "oh crap, here we go again."
When I first found out about the other guy, I confronted the wife. We were also going through other problems. She ultimately said she wanted to work on our marriage as we have almost 20 years invested. (I'm really shortening details here to give a thumbnail sketch.) She said she told him their communications were improper and he agreed to stop also.
For several weeks, I thought things were 180 degrees better. UNTIL I FOUND OUT SHE WAS STILL COMMUNICATING WITH HIM from her work email and work phone. Another blow up with the wife and I told her to leave.
The same day, I called him. He first tried to make it sound like he was just an old high school friend who had reconnected with a classmate. After confronting him with facts (times of calls/texts, number of connections, etc.) he admitted it was improper, but he hasn't seen her in 10 years.
I asked if he knew she was married and had two children. I asked if he knew he ruined a marriage as we were divorcing. He said he felt terrible but he thought she was going to work on the marriage. I asked how she could if he was still in the picture. He ultimately said he would tell her they would no longer be in contact and he felt terrible. I almost believe him and wonder if my wife is egging this on. He said he would cancel his upcoming trip to our hometown (high school reunion).
My wife is still moving out this weekend. I assume at this time she is still thinking about him. I noticed on the computer history today that she has been in contact with him as of this morning on facebook.
I am not going to do anything until I discuss with the counselor next week. I previously told my wife I was still going to fight for my marriage even after she moved out. I would continue to honor my vows as long as I wore my ring. I want to contact the other guy and tell him I am still fighting for her. To tell you the truth, I half way thought he MIGHT discontinue conversations based on my talk with him. I almost want to threaten him with exposure if he continues with her. I know if he does stop and he tells her I contacted him, it may do more damage between us. Should I care?
My question is this? Has anyone EVER been successful in this approach or has it backfired.
After reading this again, I know I sound like an idiot but I am still on the roller coaster and am still dizzy. Any response is helpful....
Don't ever threaten him, just do it.
Detach, take care of yourself like you are a single male, and decide how much you are ultimately willing to take.
I wonder if spouces new that their actions could put their relationship partner in the grave, or hurt their life tremendously if they would still do it.
what on earth does that^^^ mean? It's wild & reckless to suggest he "just do it."
What is the GOAL of exposing an OM, who has not yet been physical and denies a true affair?
TO shame the OM publicly (gee that sounds noble, and NGU wants to be seen as the good guy here, not the petty angry man stomping his feet in anger)
and thereby somehow make OM give up & see it's not worth it? But that just does NOT happen. Do not do what does not work.
AND MOREOVER, even if it did make OM think twice, so what?
That would do nothing for the marriage & it would push his wife farther away. ISn't it obvious that is what has already happened?
I've seen the "exposure to others" thing done before, several times even though we always urge the DBer LBSer NOT TO DO IT...
they get too angry and say they "can't take it" and every single time, it has blown up in their face.
Sometimes it's just the last straw for the WAS and there's no going back then. The more people who hear about this stuff, the worse it is for NGU and his family.
I would urge YOU to Read the books before you tell a guy who wants to make this marriage work, to just "Do it".
IF NGU tries to blame all this on OM and shows his w's dirty laundry and shames HER too
(b/c make no mistake, exposing OM means calling his wife a pretty bad name, whether he says it out loud or not.
And he has kids and she is the mother of his children. This isn't the honorable thing to do.
She may not "deserve defending" in your eyes
(but I tend to think the co-parent deserves to be seen in the best light for the kids sake, and that means putting the kids' needs ahead of our own "need" to hurt someone b/c we are in pain)
AND GUESS WHAT? NGU's wife AND HE, admit there were "other problems" which we never get to hear about, but we know they exist...
So Might she fight back with her side of the story, PUBLICLY & then they'll have dragged their kids into it (b/c they'll be "exposed" too)
and then the chances of any reconciliation will dive bomb. And for what?
THE GOAL OF THIS MAN IS TO SAVE THE MARRIAGE. THE GOAL OF THIS SITE IS TO SUPPORT THAT EFFORT...
We dont' tell folks to save your marriage "at all costs". We tell them to "save yourself and let's hope the marriage benefits" which means we help the LBSers work on THEMSELVES...they are all they control.
Worrying about OM takes the focus off the ONLY person NGU can control, HIMSELF. HIS OWN WORK, his own growth and changes that he admits he needs to make ought to be his priorities now and that includes being the best father he can be.
Your advice to "just do it" is not consistent with DBing, and it's the OPPOSITE OF Div Busting.
Read Bond's reply (b/c I know you didn't read mine) and Bond's is a lot shorter.
Trying to "exposing" the OM just makes the h look weaker. or maybe I misunderstand what you are trying to say.???
Detach, take care of yourself like you are a single male, and decide how much you are ultimately willing to take. I wonder if spouces new that their actions could put their relationship partner in the grave, or hurt their life tremendously if they would still do it. [/quote] DaddlyLongshanks,
Sorry for the length of this but it's important.
What do you mean by this comment? Are you talking about suicide here or what?
I know it deeply wounds someone to discover an affair. I get it.
But nothing someone else does, gets to ruin MY LIFE.
(And Not to quibble or minimize NGU's pain, but again, NGU's wife has not even seen this OM in a decade. It's not a PA at all, and OM doesn't declare his love for the wife either. So let's not attach quite the same label to all "improper" contacts) But we LBSers are responsible for how we choose to react when we are in pain.
This pain we feel is deep, but it is NOT eternal and it is NOT Fatal. We cannot blame the WAS for our actions to theirs. We are in control of ourselves. Our children are watching us. We must show them that we/they can grieve AND RECOVER...
The idea that taking our life would punish the person who wounded us is way off track. Sadly, it's a huge misconception. TO put it crudely,
"hanging onto pain/anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes."
I know of 3 suicides of people I truly knew. The saddest part, maybe, and the irony of it all, is how much anger and relief the suicide produced in the very people the deceased person thought would feel regret or sorrow!
The left behind familiy and loved ones just feel a ton anger and disappointment in the decedent.
And the "guilty" adulterer often tells himself - OR IS TOLD BY OTHERS that
"Clearly, LBSer was not emotionally healthy or mentally well. A bit of a loser to take his own life. Talk about co-dependent. SHE was RIGHT to leave him"
AND MAYBE they'll "thank God it's over at least". They might regret "how" they told the LBSer or "not communicating THEIR unhappiness earlier" but they'll never take responsibility for someone else's suicide and I don't think they ought to, tbh.
If there are children in your picture, as there are in NGU's, I strongly urge you to get help and model for the kids how THEY will need to face the setbacks and emotional wounds life gives all of us at some point.
I am taking all this time to reply to this topic b/c we had a suicide last year, of the WAW herself. (See 9lives' thread for that story).
She really was not well...
Please get counselling and if need be, get medications. NO shame in that. Been there, done that. Just getting a good night's sleep helps everything look better and helps us think more clearly.
and eating right, exercising, prayer, support systems, personal growth and often a bettter R with God, all help us become better, stronger people.
Better, stronger people make better, stronger spouses.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25YearsMLC (And Not to quibble or minimize NGU's pain, but again, NGU's wife has not even seen this OM in a decade. It's not a PA at all, and OM doesn't declare his love for the wife either. So let's not attach quite the same label to all "improper" contacts)
Thanks for the perspective. Actually, my wife and I were walking out of the last school reunion when he was walking in. We saw him for 15 seconds. My wife recently told me he was the one who told us we should stay a little longer.
Prior to that, she probably hasn't seen him in over 20 years. Your perspective helps ground me. It's my thoughts of the unknown that run away and scare the crap out of me.
Keep posting, everything you say helps settle things down. Thanks!
Why is this such a hot button with you? Every time the whole "exposure" thing comes up, you practically become unglued.
Look, I realize it's against the DB/DR catechism, but to say that "every single time, it's blown up in their face" simply isn't true. And BECAUSE it's against DB policy, we're not allowed to talk about it, so we're hardly a representative sample here, don'tchathink? I think a fairer way to put it would be to say "reasonable people disagree about this very controversial topic, but it is strictly against DB policy and it says so right here on this forum" ... or some such.
More broadly than just this one sub-topic, I am a proponent of the "more actions, less talk" school. Talk is cheap, and wayward spouses will quickly just learn to tune you out.
