Golf Mom Although your H's suicidal ideation might be a byproduct of MLC and/or depression, it is not something I would take lightly. I've lost two friends (years ago, both men in their late 20s) to suicide and it absolutely isn't fun. It definitely isn't something for your kids to go through.
I suggest contacting a suicide or mental health hotline, sharing the situation and asking what you should watch and listen for, and whether there's other action you can take.
Is there a friend or family member of his whom you trust and can call to share your concerns so that they can take a role in helping him?
Especially right now, you MUST let go of your marriage. Don't analyze anything he says or does. Take everything at face value.
As for your kids walking around like shells of themselves, why is this? How does it manifest? Can you head it off at the pass? I don't know the ages of your kids, but I do know several at various ages who are thriving withing the context of their parents' separation and divorce.
A few questions to ponder: Does your H put his kids first today? (If no, don't consider why this is, instead do everything in your power to protect them.) Do you enable and encourage his relationship with them? Do you use emotive or biased language when you talk with them about your situation? (If yes, stop. Use neutral language and kindness when speaking of their father.)
My H never expressed any suidicidal ideation to me, but I ALWAYS worry about people's mental health when it comes to major crap going on in their lives. My understanding is that the notion that those at highest risk for suicide never speak of it is false.
The mentally healthy just don't know how to hear their messages or see their cues. When you hear hopelessness in the tone of someone's words, and a feeling that they have no control, and a dire sense of the future, they don't have to say the word suicide for us to know it's in their minds.
Good luck.
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
golf mom, You will need to make your home a "safe place" for him to come. That means no begging, pleading or discussing your relationship w/him. Keep the conversations light and about the children. The less you make him feel guilty, the more likelihood it will be for him to want to come back there.
It has been suggested many times that when you know he's going to be around, to bake/cook something that he has always enjoyed. Why? You want to him to go away w/fond memories of what he's walked out on. Play some nice music, change some of the furniture and/or pictures around so that he can see that you are doing things and not sitting around waiting for him to return.
If he asks for your advice, give it to him, just as you would a friend. However, when they are in crisis, they do not want us to diagnose their ills or tell them that they need to seek out a therapist or tell them what they should or shouldn't do. In the early stages of the crisis, they know that something is wrong, but they can't put their finger on it, but as they move along, they will tell you that there is nothing wrong. However, at night, when they are alone, their minds tend to race and play over and over again what they have left behind and are doing. However, this doesn't mean that they want help at this time. They have to work through the dark depression before they will even begin to think about seeking assistance and then that is a big "if".
What do you do? You listen, treat him as you would an old friend that you haven't seen in a while. Love him unconditionally from afar and do not try to "guilt" him into returning home or doing things that you expect him to do as he once did pre-crisis. But most importantly, turn the wheel of the bus over to God and allow him to drive it for a while. God has a lot of work to do and he can't do it if we continue to press home what they should or shouldn't be doing.
Golf mom, once you have been on the bus a while longer, you'll have a better understanding of what is going on. Right now, you see glimpses of the old h and then the new one pops out and throws you a curve ball. It will get easier in time.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
GWN, my H said that when he was home he felt suicidal, apparently for years, but hasn't said that he does now. It seems he's busy medicating himself with other women. That is extremely painful for me and the boys. In fact, the last time S12 was with him he found women's sunglasses in his car. It hurt him a great deal and it was the first thing he told me and S15 when he got home. It's so hard to hear stuff like that, but I know the boys have to be able to tell me when they are upset even when it involves OW.
Snodderly, I was doing well with bagging the R talk for awhile, but just felt absolutely defeated yesterday and wanted relief from all of this pain. I so desperately want to be able to tell the boys that their dad is coming home. My H has been gone over six months and has filed for D. I have seldom initiated contact with him, keeping it to return calls and emails as needed. That hasn't worked. While I was reading The Broken American Male (I highly recommend to everyone as I think it's the prelude to MLC in many cases) I realized that my H needs to be needed and appreciated. Feeling strongly about that, what do I do now? I just don't think NC will work. For many, maybe most, it seems to draw the WS toward them, but that hasn't worked for me. I don't know for sure, but as I watch the dynamics between my H and the boys I notice that when they've rejected him, after awhile of trying, my H just seems to go away until the boys initiate contact. I've known my H to be like that. His body language over the years has shown dejection - hands in pockets, slumped shoulders. I believe this is how he feels about himself due to childhood trauma, not because of something that may have happened in the present day. If there was ever a man who needed love, healing and total exceptance, it is my H. It wasn't until after he left and I started doing all of the reading and research that I started to really see the hurting man behind the husband and father. I know I can't fix him, but what CAN I do? Since NC doesn't seem to be the answer, do I start calling regularly, keeping it brief, just to say hi, thank him for working hard for us, see how his day is going, etc. We used to make those calls to each other throughout the day. I notice that he picks up the phone right away, unless he's in a meeting, when I call. So, does he really want to hear from me? I would have thought that he would have avoided me, especially since he tells the boys that he didn't leave them, he left me because he didn't want to be around me. I don't believe this at all. We were still spending time together, sleeping in the same bed, etc. until he left. Something else, I know that when his first wife filed for D (short marriage to college GF) there was a point when my H called her and asked her to join him in his new city and start over. She said no and he told me that he just moved on. He didn't try to win her back or fight for the marriage. I think he's so use to people rejecting him, and rejecting himself, that he gives up easily, believing there is no hope so why bother. My H, especially when feeling depressed, is very pessimistic and sees everything as hopeless. That's why he believes that if he comes home things might be OK for awhile but eventually they will be the same. What I realize is that he's afraid he will be depressed and suicidal again, but this doesn't have anything to do with our marriage. It's him. He gets bored easily, always wanting to try something new, visit new places (doesn't like to vacation at the same place twice or stay any one place very long). I believe he craves euphoria to keep the depression at bay. Does my assessment make sense. How do I reach him? I feel compelled to try something different, even though I do believe that God is in charge. I pray daily for patience and compassion as he works on my H.
golf mom, The comment that he made about feeling suicidal when he was at home makes perfect sense. Why? Many of them will state that they feel smothered or fear dying while being in the home. It's the depression and guilt talking. That's one of the reasons many of them walk out the door, i.e., they need to feel alive again and not have the guilt pounding on their door every day. You can call a hotline and speak to a professional bout the comment and gain some insight into the suicide talk and what to look for, but I think he may be beyond that now since he's out on his own. Again, pick up the phone and talk to someone about it. Just remember, you are separated and you can't make him go see someone or commit him for an evaluation. Now, if the man was living under the same roof w/you and he was talking about suicide, you could do something about him. You can ask the professional about what I've just posted as well. I know that I raised the question when my xh went crazy, but was told that unless we were together and living as man and wife, I couldn't do a thing about having him committed for an evaluation.
If you don't see any change by going NC, then it's time to try something different, but you need to stay away from relationship talks. Stick to what the children are doing as that is a safe topic. He's not ready to have a conversation about the relationship or reconciling. Safe subjects are the best right now.
Sounds like your h needs the "euphoric rush" to keep himself motivated. A lot of them are like that. One the newness wears off of something, he's then on to something else. My xh was like that and continues to be that way.
Your h's actions say quite a bit...you can't rely on what they tell your or anyone else...actions speak louder than words and it appears that he still cares very much about you and is willing to pick up the phone and speak to you when you all.
Golf mom, we have a saying around here, if something isn't working, then try something different. Maybe it is time for you to try something different...just stay away from relationship talks and see how it goes. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
OK, snodderly. I will try a brief phone call. This is so hard, especially since we're in the middle of a D. I'm having a very difficult time separating myself from what he is doing which is why I am flip flopping. I am so hurt and angry one minute and the next full of love and compassion for someone who is clearly unwell. I'm starting to question whether he has ever been a happy person or whether our life together has been nothing more than bursts of euphoric moments and distractions which kept him going all these years. I know I need to completely detach. Why am I struggling with this? I will start doing the exercise that T^2 recommended and see if I can get some relief. In the meantime, I will try a brief phone call when I'm in that compassionate place. I'll report back. Thank you so much for responding today. I'm feeling stronger.
Please do not call him when you feel angry. He will sense your mood by the tone of your voice. Only call him when you have something to talk about and don't call him all of the time. He needs to "miss" you and your conversations.
Allow God to work on him...do not question God's work for there is a reason for everything that happens to us, be it to make us more compassionate, wiser, stronger, more independent, etc. Everything will happen on God's time, not ours.
Good luck!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
BM, I am not at all concerned right now. According to him he had those feelings when he was here. He sure hid that well. Now he's happy. Eventually he won't be able to self medicate and will face all of the destruction. That's when I will be concerned. In the meantime, I continue to try to build a bridge with him, letting him know that he's still part of our family, etc. It's hard to do after all that he's done to me and the boys. I do hope that when the crash and burn phase happens, and it will, that he trusts me with his feelings in a way that he just couldn't before.
I am so hurt and angry one minute and the next full of love and compassion for someone who is clearly unwell. I'm starting to question whether he has ever been a happy person or whether our life together has been nothing more than bursts of euphoric moments and distractions which kept him going all these years.
GM, Just wanted to say that I am at exactly the same place with my mlc H.
I helps me greatly to know that what I am feeling is 'normal' for this terrible process that we are trying to battle through.
Just as our H's are displaying recognisable patterns and working to 'script', so we go through similar stages as the LBSs.
Hope it helps to know that I'm following your thread to keep myself going - I'm here with you, cos you've sure helped me by posting your story so eloquently and honestly.
NLW, thank you so much for posting. I'm so glad that sharing my story as it unfolds is helping you. I, too, gain knowledge and strength from reading other poster's situations. The amount of pain and suffering that people on these boards are going though is unbelievable and completely unfair. Stay stong today.
