Crimson....just checkin' in.

[25yearsmlc]

25 -

Correct. Wife is the petitioner. She filed due to several things she brought to my attention all at once that were contributing to her unhappiness and tied directly to me.


Fair enough...but since these problems are being worked on, they are no longer problems. I heard a c say that a great workshop I attended once and it hit me like a bolt. It's true.

If you have identified a problem you have and you are really working on it, it's NOT really a problem anymore, is it?


She has mentioned that she noticed changes in me - but has not said so again for quite some time. Just by vitrue of the fact that I never have my phone with me when we are together should be a big one.


meaning you are no longer obsessed or distracted by work or other matters that came up with you, electronically? Good. It's a simple but powerful gesture. Keep it up.

The settlement agreement had "out of town" terms in it. It was agreed upon by both sides. She asked me for an excess (double) of the maximum.

I said that if we are working on our R, even AFTER a D - then I am fine having that much flexibility in the name of healing or relationship.


Well it's too bad you worded it that^^ way. IT sounds manipulative even though I THINK i Know what you meant.

Instead, You could have been more reticent and said "we'll see but gee that sounds like a really LONG time for me and son to be apart...let's play that by ear..."

(Maybe run it by a counselor or suggest that to her. It is very long for a boy that age to be away from either parent and I know this from when I joined the army when son was 16 months old).

For 15 weeks, I saw him only on weekends as I was in basic training (but we were very lucky to live near where that was happening so I went home on weekends). Later on, I was sent away for a 16 day trip without any contact with son (but phone)

and when I finally got home, he was bonded more with my mom than me...for a few days at least. Man, that took the sparkles off that reunion, to see him pull away from me and hold onto her. Thank God it was MY mom...
and it passed.

all this ALMOST makes me want you to say

"W, with the papers, I could have just said NO to any out of town, but instead I showed flexibility. Seems You want it ALL your way or NO way and if I say less than YES TO ALL, I'm a manipulative jerk...really? Well you're welcome.

And btw, w, exactly where and how are YOU showing any flexibility? Can't I say about you, everything you've said about/to me? OR more, since YOU are filing

while supposedly being open to changes in the r, and exploring a recon, while seeking more from me and going to mc, ALL while still keeping you foot on the divorce pedal"????"


She then accused me of conditional efforts and DID, in fact. say "I find it incredibly manipulative that you would adjust his time away based on what you want and not what's best for him". I didn't respond - but wanted to ask her if she thought 20 days away from his father was "best for him". Sounded like it was best for her to me.

that response, if said calmly, is an adult response. Why not say it? You simply MUST point out her double standards. Those rationalizations don't make her evil or worthless, b/c humans rationalize a lot. Just as you rationalized some pretty self indulgent behavior, before your awakening.

She needs an awakening too.

I say Point these things out, NOT in a "gotcha" way, but in an adult way.

I don't think it takes law school to do this (though some days I wonder if it does, when I read how people communicate here) but the concept of saying your spiel, uninterrupted and then letting someone respond, and then NOT repeating yourself but finding resolution or addressing other relevant points to resolve the conflict...geez...


** it's totally legit to say "I hear you wife, and ironically I see it the same way but in reverse.

I truly believe it's best FOR SON and me, to be in each other's lives MORE, not less, and I have to wonder if you've given thought, even just 3 minutes thought, to this idea--e.g., how YOU'd feel if I were to take son somewhere for 3 weeks without you seeing him at all, and then called YOU SELFISH for voicing your concern...

My real worry w, is that I fear it doesn't even cross your mind anymore..."....

Then Crimson, get off the phone or end the note/conversation.

She will NOT change her mind in that moment, few people would or could - and her pride will argue in a knee jerk way.

But if you plant the seed that a double standard of major proportions is happening w/her, and that SHE is being unfair now, she may give a little.

If she's got a reasonable bone in her body-and she does-then

THE ONLY OBSTACLE TO HER SEEING THE TRUTH -

WILL BE IN HOW YOU PRESENT IT TO HER.

The issue has been dead for awhile now - just don't know if I want to breath life back into it if she doesn't bring it up.


Why NOT mention the double standard? How's it going to hurt? She'll keep doing this, just biding her time til she wants something else new and beyond the boundaries b/c she feels owed. YOu are enabling her to feel that way.

Are you able to say, CALMLY, say when things are GOOD in the park, "hey w, I don't expect or want an answer but I hope you'll ponder this b/c it's been bugging me...you assume such nefairous motives on my end and I feel like I get zero benefit of any doubt. BUT to ME, seems like you may be doing some 'old me' tricks and kidding yourself about arrangements. I only say this b/c I recognize how I once saw things only my way and no one else's...

but you asked for DOUBLE the time away from son...aside from the legal aspects and boundary pushing I'm coping with,

I feel like I've bent over backwards to be fair and above board, but I miss son a lot even with just a few days apart. You of all people know how it feels.

So To hear you tell me I'm MANIPULATIVE b/c I balked at such a long time apart, and that I WAS PUTTING MYSELF AHEAD OF HIM, hurt me a lot. I have to say it sure feels like a double standard.

hey, I'm NOT asking you for anything except to give that possibility some thought. Have a good weekend".

CRIMSON- LEAVE the area or end the conversation pleasantly RIGHT THEN.

If she begins to respond, even if it SOUNDS nice,

firmly but gently cut her off saying "Hey I don't need or want an answer now. I just want you to really put yourself in my shoes b/c I KNOW I've been trying to do that for you..."

and GET OFF the phone so she really has time to process how off track SHE is getting. You want this to sink in and you do not want to look or seem like you are pressuring her in any way. She can hardly claim that when you force her to give herself space and time.

BUT I suggest you never ever connect "Working on the m" with giving her more and more time with son.

That part, did not sit well with me. It looks like a reward system, probably one she was happy to use when it suited her. But it's weird.

She's basically becoming who she once accused you of being. OR so it seems from where I sit.

It's easy to do when you feel, sometimes rightly, that you were a victim. It's hard to realize that you've changed places now and the other person is being the victim, which makes YOU the......not so nice guy...



Seems like whenever I bring up how I feel about things it bounces right off of her and has no impact whatsoever. Or worse yet, spawns a potential argument. I don't think she is interested in my feelings much right now.


try the above methods I suggested, but NOT done in the heat of an argument or fight. OR try saying it with a c around.

Sometimes you don't want to bring ANYthing up when times are good, and I get that. Usually it's a bad idea. I agree...OTOH

But if you have some unresolved stuff that matters, and time with son DOES

then you have to bring it up sometime. When is it best?

I think it's better to do when things are good, & she's seeing you in a good light, light hearted, etc...tempers are not flaring, no one is imputing nefarious motives, etc....patiences exists..

and as the fun event or pleasant time together is nearing its end, you get her alone briefly, and bring up the matter calmly, succinctly, EXPECTING and demanding NO response and taking up less than 3 minutes...all you are asking her for is to consider your position (as mentioned above) and all you want from her THEN

is maybe a promise to "just think about it" or "promise me you'll try to put yourself in my shoes for 5 minutes", without waiting for a definitive reply, THANK HER...and end the conversation.

You won't have "ruined" the evening b/c you waited til it was almost over, and then you calmly, like a friend, asked her "for a favor" (as in, "be fair").

It's a way to resolve a conflict in an adult manner. If she loses it, no matter how badly, you stay calm.

That does not mean stay silent. If she opens the door with a glaring hypocrisy, you can say "that right there is a double standard that I'm referring to - but I can see you are too upset to discuss this now so we'll talk later. All I wanted was for you to try and see it from my perspective but maybe you can't, so...have a nice night"...and LEAVE.



I have been great (IMHO) in containing and not showing anger thus far. Even when I am getting chewed out I stay calm and do not react. I checked out for a few days after her "nasty-gram" just because I really didn't know what to say and I didn't want to start a fight. I needed to cool off. And, to be honest, part of me wanted her to see what "no contact" was like and to realize that I deserve enough respect not to talked to like that. Right or wrong? I don't know.

Will post more - have to leave.

Crimson

you must learn how to communicate disagreement without insults. It's a generic statement but it's a BIG DEAL Crimson.

It's mandatory to healthy happy marriage, truly.


Be able to disagree without attacking. OWn when you've turned a disagreement into an insult contest or an attack, and retreat with a short but sincere apology and give it easily.

That shows HER that apologies are not surrenders. They are not signs of weakness but of strength.

Be able to be attacked without attacking back, BUT without silently taking it. And with a shield up. Know this---

Frequently, silence is viewed as consent.

Say something like "I don't agree at all with what you just said, but since tempers are short, NOW is not the time to resolve this. Call me when you feel calmer" and walk away

BUT

Crimson

if you think that comment will enrage her more,

then say YOU are "too upset to discuss this now b/c I SO disagree so let's both take a breather..."

or

"Looks like We are too far apart on this issue to resolve it tonight. Maybe with cooling off time we'll see it differently."

But don't keep engaging and worse, don't keep listening to her ranting b/c I really do believe she thinks your silence is your agreement with her view.

Worst case scenario, at a minimum,

tell her "I'm very upset so please don't confuse my silence with acquiescence, b/c it's not."

Crimson, it's late and I'm wiped. I hope this makes sense. Keep us posted.