Journaling…… Thanks sandi2 & InAPickle your advice was great and I think I’m Getting a handle on detaching. The Long holiday weekend went fine lots done around house, went to IL’s with whole family to spend some time at lake, then kids had good time in pool rest of weekend. Friday night brought some R talk W seems to be in pretty much same place as month ago. I asked for her to forgive me for my parts in getting our R to where it is today. The conversation was calm and respectful for the most part, W seemed angry which to me is understandable, but claimed she’s not angry but just does not care anymore, seemed angry to me. I did get some insight into how she can say that’s she’s tried and tried to communicate her displeasures to me, seems that little comments like, their kids just let them have fun, was supposed to be my clue that she didn’t agree w/my parenting style. Toward end of conversation she asked why I thought kids would be sitting in room with me and get up and go ask her if they could do whatever? I told her honestly I thought It was because they believe mom will let them do whatever whenever thay want. W made comment that maybe I might need to put some effort in if they asked me, that was low and I told her so, she knew it anyway. W seems to think she has no part in what led us to here in R. During conversation I asked if she was still unwilling to go to MC, she didn’t think it would help, end of talk. Next morning first words to me where, I’m sorry I didn’t mean to cut you down last night.I accepted her apoligy. Then went on to say she wants kids to have 2 parents, wants family vacations, for them to grow up in their home. Baby step here but she must be considering MC because she wasn’t sure if she wanted to talk to someone because if they told her SHE needed to do something differently that would just p@ss her off. I got the book 5LL and have almost completed it. W’s LL is definitely acts of service, which admittedly I did not speak very well. Mine would be physical touching which looking back W spoke only just enough to keep me interested, W words not mine Im not a touchy feely person, if she chooses to give our R a chance I will have to address this with her. For now I’ll have patience until W can figure out if she wants our M.
"W seems to think she has no part in what led us to here in R."
'she must be considering MC because she wasn’t sure if she wanted to talk to someone because if they told her SHE needed to do something differently that would just p@ss her off."
Mind reading. You really don't know what she's thinking of.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Ultimatims ...... I'm not so sure that's what I ment. I think it would be more of a discussion on LL if she decides on a R with me. Im starting to see that I wasn't as Happy in our R as I convinced myself I was, and any R we might have in future will require work on both are parts to be better for both of us.
It's good that you have patience, so now let's see if you can go without bringing up the R to your W.
You see, talking it over with her doesn't fix it. You are wanting to talk about the problems in order to fix them. I am exactly the same way! However, it doesn't work, and in fact....it will push her to make a hasty decision to D. So, leave it alone.
Your W is worn out. She's depressed and I'd bet she feels lonely. She's given up hope for the M getting better b/c she thinks she's had to do all the work. That's another reason you should not discuss R or ask her questions about where she stands. Right now, she's trying to do what she thinks is "right" by staying and giving her kids a two-parent home. It's the kids that is keeping her planted.
I would suggest that you back off trying to get her to go to MC, for the time being, b/c it will not help if she's not willing to work toward a better R or make changes. She's disinterested and she's worn out.
I remember so well how I felt when I decided to stay in my M. Was I happy? No! Was I ready to give 100% effort that my H asked from me? No! I had to reach a point to where I was just willing...to be willing. Make sense? Probably not, but I bet your W would understand completely b/c of her mindset.
"but she must be considering MC because she wasn’t sure if she wanted to talk to someone because if they told her SHE needed to do something differently that would just p@ss her off."
To me, it sounds like she's telling you the reasons why she doesn't want to go.
I would suggest that the two of you find help with how to co-parent, instead of MC, since that seems to be a critical area in the R and is her basic reason (co-parenting) for staying.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
"W seems to think she has no part in what led us to here in R."
MB—These were W words to me….. But I believe they should fall under believe nothing of what they say and half of what I see..
'she must be considering MC because she wasn’t sure if she wanted to talk to someone because if they told her SHE needed to do something differently that would just p@ss her off."
This is mindreading you are exactly right I need to remember this in the future…That I cannot know what W or anybody is thinking thanks for pointing that out.
Sandi2- I also agree with you that right now its ALL about the kids, tho keep in mind that she wanted (wants?) me to leave the house W has no intentions on leaving herself.
The R talk was a slip on my part and I will not do this again as I definitely see where it will lead if I push this.
Your W is worn out. She's depressed and I'd bet she feels lonely. She's given up hope for the M getting better b/c she thinks she's had to do all the work.
She also feels stuck and done. As she knows that she cant provide the lifestyle and home that our children are accustomed to on her own. It hurts me to know she feels that way and I do have empathy for her for this, she is the love of my life.
It does make sense to me about her needing to get to a point to be willing, hard to accept this, but I do understand. I pray she does get there.
As for co parenting I a appreciate the advise and im going to stop and pickup a book on this tonight.
Feeling "stuck" is exactly how I was when I made the decision to stay with my H. The decision to stay did not change my cold heart. That part took quite longer than most LBH's want to think about having to endure! But the point is.......I did eventually get there.
It breaks my heart that I got off into what I did. I don't know that I'll ever be the same person I once was......and I doubt my family will ever feel the same toward me that they once did. Yes, they still love me, but the respect they once had for me is forever gone.
So, don't give up on her. WAW's are tough to deal with, and you have to be tough with her if you expect to have a future R with her.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
So, don't give up on her. WAW's are tough to deal with, and you have to be tough with her if you expect to have a future R with her.
So what do you mean by be tough with her if you could exlain more. Right now I feel I can't be anything with her,except polite and friendly, or are you saying just be tough and see it through with her?
By being tough with her, I mean that you need to make sure you always show a backbone b/c she doesn't respect you. She'll never want to have a MR with you unless she feels strong attraction for you as a man. She's not going to do that until she feels respect for you as a man, a H, and a father.
I think a lot of couples have trouble when the man is "laid back" and the woman has a strong will or personality. The reason is this: A woman with those tendencies will see her H as being passive and weak. She bosses him around or takes advantage of his easy going nature. No woman respects a man who won't stand his ground with her.
I don't think men see this in the beginning. He thinks it is easier to avoid conflict and just let her do what she wants, or say what she wants without him confronting her. He sees it as letting things "roll off his back" when she says something that isn't very nice. But in reality, she's stepping on him. The longer he goes and doesn't stop her in her tracks....the more she will say & do that just makes him appear like he's a doormat.
"I am more laid back than W (lazy is how she put it) W is very strong willed, me not so much."
See what I mean? She sees you as being lazy! Lazy at what? Doesn't matter if you put in long hours on the job if you don't fill your role at home/family/marriage relationship. When she says you're lazy......she's really saying that she doesn't respect that in you.
My H was always extremely easy going and I was over-bearing at times. I really didn't intend to be like that....but when a man won't make a decision or say anything....most women will do it for him. That's not good! She begins to see him as being too weak to be the leader of the family, and therefore, she takes over in most areas.
I've made statements in the past that I still believe. I know I have old fashion values, but I don't apologize for them. Society may have changed and R roles may try to change....but human nature doesn't change. God made women different from men and it will always be that way.
I'll use this for an example: You can be a stay at home dad and she can bring home the bacon, but if she doesn't see you as a strong masculine male who lead his family, she won't respect you. She'll treat you more like you're the hired help. The manner in which she speaks and her attitude toward you will lack a tone of respect. Next thing you know, she's saying things in front of the kids, or others, that's a put-down about you.
So......continue to be polite, and even be nice if possible....but you don't want you to misinterpret your niceness. When you talk to her, you make statements like "I have decided" that shows her you are in charge of your life and that you intend to make sure your children are a part of that life. I'm not saying to get into a fight with her over anything. In fact, you show calm and self-control....but not in a passive way. You look her eye to eye and don't let her have the reigns like you have done in the past.
I know it must be hard when you desire to continue a M with her. I know that most LBH's fear pushing the W away. But if she doesn't respect you, she's already gone. Let her see you as a man she can respect and want to be with the rest of her life. You won't win her back by giving in to whatever she wants. Stand up for yourself.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
"but you don't want you to misinterpret your niceness."
I meant to say that you don't want her to misinterpret your niceness. Just as you can't get all excited if she is polite and nice to you.
A lot of LBH's take a one-time act of niceness from the WAW as some kind of sign that she's ready to reconcile. But then they get knocked back down when they see she's not ready at all. So, take it for what it is. If she's talkative one day, that's fine, but don't take it as a "sign". If she's being nice, good, but remember it is what it is, and nothing more.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
