Accuray, I appreciate your putting your eye to the keyhole, in a non-kinky sort of way.
I can easily imagine your parents' M being a vision into my future. *sigh*
H's not intentionally being a jerk, he just doesn't think he is. It ties back to the convo that KD and I had in my last thread about guys acting childish and "pestering girls for fun." KD and I have a different take on it, and perhaps boys and girls have a different take in general because it's the girls that are being picked on. Point is, H has behaviors that I find disrespectful (ie. eating food off my plate,) he knows how I feel, he does it anyway because in his opinion it's NOT disrespectful.
Maybe my shorthand of saying he's a jerk to me is too rough for some people. For me, when you know someone doesn't want you to do something to them and you do it anyway, I think you're being a jerk. (Sorry KD)
I have no doubt that he would like more affection, but he isn't doing what he's doing (eating off my plate) in order to get more affection from me. He's just doing it because he doesn't see anything wrong with it.
Is there something specific you would like me to ask him?
crazyville - this is getting a bit ridiculous - this back and forth between you and others on this board.
i think KD is right in his last post to you. everyone is gently trying to point out to you that the attitude you have towards your h is affecting very seriously how your sitch is continuing to develop.
we all keep asking you what you want. and you never reply to that question directly. there is a very defensive argumentative quality about your responses that leads me to ask:
DO YOU WANT TO BE HAPPY OR DO YOU WANT TO BE RIGHT?
which one do you think will lead you towards a good relationship with your h in the future? being right, or being happy?
in order to be happy you need to: 1. change your perspective about your h and what your relationship could be - you seem already resigned toward it not being so good, and so that's what it is continuing to be. you need to start imagining how good and beautiful you can be together, and if you don't want to imagine that , then you're here for all the wrong reasons 2. cut him some slack - a lot of slack - that's okay to do in a relationship - it comes from love, not being a doormat - it comes from acknowledging that both of you are human and have human reactions and that neither of you are perfect. Forgiveness is part of that, and letting things go 3. let go of your pride. Pride and ego in a relationship destroys the relationship. all of us here can attest to that. when we look back at what we did wrong and the reasons we did those things, pride and ego are at the root of most of them 4.you have to let go of the old stuff and change your perspective. you are bringing up old stuff all the time and viewing your h through the lens of the past. you cannot step towards anything new, if in your mind you interpret everything he says and does as he used to.
i still can't help thinking that you are straddling the fence - you are displaying qualities of the LBS and the WAS at the same time.
Your over critical attitude and not letting go and not understanding your h is from a the WAS position. Your wanting him to get back together is from the LBS position.
i am going to be blunt here again (since you gave me the okay earlier (grin)) but here's what i think:
I think that when you first were the WAS you were strong and sure. Then you changed your mind, and now when your h walked away, you want him back just for the sake of winning rather than you actually want him. You don't seem to show any signs of wanting things to really be better.
One of the most significant things that you wrote, was your attitude towards intimacy with him. My instinct tells me that even though you say that you don't have issues with intimacy, just issues with intimacy with him, i think you are avoiding dealing with something important that you need to deal with.
I know that feeling too well - when a man irritates and pisses you off all day, and then suddenly in the night he's all loving and wants to ML. in my own sitch that often happened and i would refuse h, which of course made things worse.
Now, i would LOVE the chance to be in a position with h where, after i've learned what i've learned, i can separate those two things and apply them.
men and women approach this so differently - if i had understood this before i don't believe my marriage would have failed.
women want the emotional connection BEFORE they have the physical one. Men are the exact opposite.
so it becomes a vicious circle - woman won't have sex because they're waiting for the connection first, not realizing that they will get in in spades AFTER they cut their partners some slack.
now i ask myself - is it more important to lose the opportunity for that connection, stubbornly waiting for the man to connect with them first, or more important to GIVE a little with no thought of what you get in return, and practically have that guaranteed?
GIVE A LITTLE crazyville - from where we're sitting you are a lot closer to what you say you want , than you realize.
lose the present "i don't give a rat's a$$ attitude " and change it to "i really love this man and we can be good together,let's figure out how"
test it out for a few days here: approach your h with the singular intent of "i really want to be with this man, i really love him" and leave all the other stuff out and see if it makes a huge difference or not. give it some time - he cannot respond overnight. and see if his responses totally change - you might be amazed!
and if he's a jerk to you sometimes - get over it - you can't say you've never been a jerk to him , can you? and aren't you expecting him to let that go?
hope you can really hear what i'm saying - and i hope you will go back and read through these last 2 weeks in your thread - you may see it in a slightly different way, what the very helpful responses to you have really been about.
we are all rooting for you here, crazyville - just getting frustrated - you'll get it though - you're close
take care zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
Thanks, Zig. I read your post really slowly, really trying to get all your points. Twice even.
I'm worried. The thing that stood out most was this:
Quote:
test it out for a few days here: approach your h with the singular intent of "i really want to be with this man, i really love him" and leave all the other stuff out and see if it makes a huge difference or not.
I had an immediate reaction. It was almost an emotional cringe. Like, ewww! Not indignation. Not arrogance. Not self-righteousness. Not confusion. Just utter distaste for the idea. Like I don't want to be close to him.
Why would that stand out for me? What does that mean? Do I really hate him that much? Is my sadness and desire about the M really about the M and not about him/us? Maybe I just really don't want to salvage my M. Maybe I just really don't love him anymore. Maybe I don't have any other answer to my H's email because there is nothing that can be done. Maybe it was over a long time ago and I'm only trying to revive it because we're still legal, and I don't want to be carrying his dead-weight. Maybe that's why none of the suggestions are setting well with me, because I just don't want to.
I don't need anyone to answer. No on can answer but me. I'm just thinking outloud. I need some time towards that. This is very disturbing.
There was a time when I was pondering being a WAW. I resisted believing that a seemingly toxic R could become positive and also had an emotional "cringing" reaction in me. I believe this was caused by 1) an unresolved issue from our past in which H hurt me deeply, emotionally, and 2) believing that I was right, he was wrong, I had a scorecard and he was way, way down in "points and if only HE would change then I would feel better because not only was I RIGHT but I WON because H changed.
I had it all wrong and here I am a LBS. All of the questions you asked in your most recent post I had asked of myself at the time a few years ago. It was only after I figured out what was the TRUE cause of my emotional distress (career issue unrelated to H) and when my IC drilled into my head, repeatedly, that *I* was the one that needed to GIVE a little, try some change, cut H some slack, etc., that I was able to look at our M differently. And over time, I felt differently because I was looking at our R differently. And I felt better as a person. I still feel better because I am able to be more giving and understanding not just in my M but with all of my other Rs.
Everyone here is trying to help you come to this understanding, faster than some of the rest of us were able to. It is very brave of you to come here now, before your M is over, but you will have to look deep inside yourself beyond these surface feelings to examine what about you would need to change about yourself for a better R. It is, as others have said, simple, but not easy. If you continue to characterize your H as deadweight, you will only be able to think of him as an anchor that is causing you to drown.
To paraphrase zig above and others on this board (usually 25yearsMLC, I believe): Do you want to be RIGHT or do you want to be HAPPY/M.
I don't want to be right. I've been right before. It s@cks.
I do want to be happy. I find I'm happiest when I'm not around H. Why is that? If it's something about ME, then why am I happiest when I'm not around HIM? What is wrong about me that only comes out when I'm around him? Where does "it" go when he's not there? Why don't I find the same dissatisfaction/unhappiness in my other R's? Why does my generally happy self disappear when I get with him? Do I just dislike him to my core being and that taints everything?
Hi, CV, I feel the same way, that I am much happier when I don't hear from my H. My guess is because when he is around and/or we have contact it reminds me that things are not as I want them to be and that I feel rejected by H. In short, seeing him is like him putting a big mirror in front of him that reflects back at me and how I am feeling about myself. When he is gone, I am not as directly confronted by my flaws or how I contributed to the problems in our marriage or how much I really miss him. That's how I view it anyway. Hope this helps in some way.
good, good, now you're where you should be, asking the right questions about YOUR OWN feelings, not asking questions about h's feelings or actions.
you're fine, crazyville, you just needed to get here - and it took some time. and it's okay, you know, we each get to it after being nudged enough. sometimes, as in your case (grin) we have to practically bash you on the head with a 2 x4. i felt as if i have been so mean to you, but know that everything i wrote to you, i've been applying to myself!!
read carefully the replies you got after you wrote this post - there are a lot of very good messages and advice to you there.
it's time to take the focus off h - and really start to look at yourself and do the inner work . it's very painful, very very painful, but you have to be brave and do it now. look in the mirror (within yourself) and find out who you really are and why you are still in that house with your h.
find out what hurts deep deep inside you, that you cover with anger, frustration and accusations towards your h, and behind those emotions if you gently dig and open yourself to the answers you will find the real hurts that you will be able to let go off and release.
and as you come to know each of these - and some of them will blindside you - and let go of them, you will, i believe, actually begin to find yourself warming towards the idea of the relationship blossoming rather than the other way around.
your eew reaction to what i wrote - isn't eew to your h - it's yikes, i can't do that work , it's too hard, it's too painful. it's safer to cling on to the anger and irritation than it is to delve within ourselves.
you can't find the real answer to what you want and what will be the correct thing for you to do, until you do the inner work.
i think , even if you don't realize it or see it, you are ready now to do it.this post of yours was the most heartfelt truest thing you wrote.
you've exhausted your other options and this is the only one left. so make a plan and follow it. if you don't know where to start, start simple. take your most predominant emotion in the sitch - anger for example and just google it - start reading. one thing will lead to another and you will begin to find your way through it.
if you can start IC - go on your own - it's YOUR stuff to deal with first - find out why you walked away why you came back and what you expect now and what you are doing or not doing presently that is working towards that. if the IC is good, she'll pick up on where you need to be and help lead the way. print out some of the posts here that meant the most to you, or touched the rawest nerve show them to her - just get started.
and for now, just forget about what your h is doing or not doing - take some space for yourself, get a breather and do your own thing. but this time NOT with the attitude that f - h , i'm just going to go have fun. do it with the attitude that "it is very important right now that i understand myself better and learn myself better. only when i know better what i am, can i make any real true decisions of what i want with my h"
doubt plays a HUGE role in all of this. and if we talk about riding our spouses roller coasters, well, when we start our own real self-discovery and self-healing journey, there's our very own special roller coaster to ride on - our very own that we don't even share with anyone. and it's a way harder ride - because we don't get to distract ourselves by looking over to see what the other one is doing so we can point the finger and take the focus off ourselves.
it's worth the ride - don't pull back and don't get off, because as you go through each station along the way, you get to unload some personal [censored] and take on a small load of inner peace and a tiny fragment more of wisdom you didn't have before. and then the ride stars smoothing out a bit and gets a little easier each day.
you're very brave crazyville - i don't think i could have withstood some of the posts you've had to read. so channel that same bravery towards yourself - you're definitely worth it:) ((( ))) zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
hi CV, I'm really really proud of you that you admitted that and you should be proud of yourself. Reread what I wrote to you because that's how I felt. I was disgusted when my IC suggested we do somethings to connect phsyically again. and I resented being the one to do the work. What I didn't realize is that I wasn't doing the work FOR him it was for me. I hope you find your way. And we all have such strong reactions because we wish we'd gottent his advice before things went too far south.
