Been a while since I’ve been to the site and its been even longer since I posted anything. I still don’t know what I’m looking for, maybe a voice, but I can’t really say. I had thought that we were making great strides in our relationship. We were talking more and she seemed more content with not leaving the house each night, even if she still sleeps on the recliner for the past year. Where my relationship with my wife stands:
A month ago I asked her for a year. I asked that we talk to an unbiased professional during that year and that we could also work on saving money for the eventual split. I told her this was not an effort to “fix” us, but to help us part ways amicably knowing that we’ve talked out our differences.
- Yes, I forgot I shouldn’t have even mentioned the work counseling as it may be translated as something I want in order to “fix” her when she knows the only “fix” is to get away from me. Oops.
My wife’s response to this was 'no' ( surprise ). She was incapable of living like this for another year. That it stresses her out greatly that I’ve been trying so hard for the past two years. She’s had anxiety attacks and her health has been in decline. All because of her conscious effort to not give me “hope” that there’s any chance of avoiding a divorce.
She said that it greatly distresses her that of all the things I do that she appreciates; she makes a conscious effort to remain silent and not say anything at all so that I don’t get my hopes up. Nothing she said surprised me, but two things brought about anger in me that I’d not experienced in a long time:
- I got no credit for being a better person because she still believes that after two years of consistent progress, I’m only doing what I think she wants me to do.
- She said exactly: “I deserve to be happy and I’m not getting any younger”
Holy Free Holy Batman! Those two things burned white hot in me even if I refused to express my frustration to her. I’ve worked hard to be the person I am today and I’m constantly working towards more changes while making the other changes permanent. I’m making changes for me because that’s what I want and need in order to sleep at night. Telling me she thinks I’m only doing it to make right with her takes away much of my own inner satisfaction of my efforts to improve my outlook on life.
The second part is what it is. I’ve been defending her and supporting her in every way I could for the past two years in regards to family and with our kids. I do believe whole heartedly that she is going through MLC. No more confusion on my part.
My oldest son (12) has been asking so many difficult questions. No more defense. Anymore it’s about being a foundation for which my kids can lean on in hard times. When last pressed, I told my son that his mom was coming to a crossroad and that she will be making a decision. Whatever direction she chooses, she will make on her own. I told him this is neither good nor bad, that I don’t have the answers he’s looking for, but that his mom will let us know when she makes her decision. I told him that there’s nothing we can do for her except continue to live our lives and that no matter what, I will be there for him and his brother regardless of the path his mother chooses.
I’ve read a lot of stuff on MLC, making marriages work and whatever else I could get my hands on. I’ve recently begun to attend therapy again after a year off, but this time it’s for me. I haven’t anyone to talk too that is unbiased in my situation. I love my in-laws and they are pulling for me, but I will not involve them. I will not put them in a position to “choose sides”. I don’t talk to my family because I don’t like “cheerleading”. I don’t want to hear crap about “I’m proud of you for…” or “I can’t believe she would do….”. I don’t want to hear it, it’s counter-productive. I don’t talk about much with friends because I want nothing that will make for awkward situations in the future. I have to be able to dictate my own level of happiness so that I can be in the best position to help my kids.
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Oh, and my wife has an emotional bond with another guy. I’m not threatened by it. I figure she can go for it. I know him enough to know that he’s got so much baggage the airlines wouldn’t have any room for other passengers. And if that’s not enough, my oldest son would never approve. She would lose him forever because it’s his friend’s dad who’s been going through horrible divorce proceedings for over a year. My son has emotional control issues due to his ADHD and another man would be an act of betrayal that he would not overlook easily.
My wife knows my oldest son will be difficult to transition to single parent life. She said she wouldn’t disrupt the kids while they’re in school. Now that school’s out, it’s a waiting game for me. I had plans to buy new beds for the kids, but that’s on hold until my wife makes her move. I’m not going to make big purchases like that only to have to do it again after she takes the ones I just bought.
I know my wife is being pulled in a lot of directions right now and I do love her greatly, but her comment that “she’s not getting any younger” makes me feel like her leaving can’t come soon enough. I believe that she’s incapable right now of seeing the full impact of the choices she has been making and that she can only see them if she moves out.
I don’t like being in this waiting game. We stopped talking again and I’ve stopped caring again. It’s not where I want to be, but I have nowhere else to go. I keep my happy face on and I don’t bother texting or calling her unless required. If she stays, which is highly doubtful, then I want to hear it from her that she’s staying. If she goes, I want her to take everything but my clothes with her so I can rebuild my life how I want it.
……Schools out. She has three months to “not disrupt the kids during the school year”, as she puts it. Three months. Feels like a long time to wait for her to take a step after the past two years. If she wants out – get out. If she wants in, then I have to find a way for us to work together because I can’t do it alone anymore…….
I think you're in a decent position...granted, not the one you want to be in, but in a decent one logically and emotionally.
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I don’t like being in this waiting game. We stopped talking again and I’ve stopped caring again. It’s not where I want to be, but I have nowhere else to go. I keep my happy face on and I don’t bother texting or calling her unless required. If she stays, which is highly doubtful, then I want to hear it from her that she’s staying. If she goes, I want her to take everything but my clothes with her so I can rebuild my life how I want it.
I'd say your dettached. And that state of mind to me, is the best place to be in your shoes. You won't take her back just to take her back...and that I have yet to see that work out well.
You are also (maybe) approaching a time when you your are done...on your terms. And for the right reason, not to"Show them" but because you have really given it your all.
Either way? You will have no regrets...or at least very few of them.
Not cheerleading you here. Ultimately? I think there are several stages of "Done." I think you might be close to that final one...jsut not quite there as of yet.
And even Done? doesn't always mean over.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I can see how irritating it must be for your W to think you're making all these changes for her. How inflated must someone's ego be to think that changes that have lasted 2 years, is all just for them. I think my H thinks the same thing, but I don't care anymore what he thinks.
Have you ever thought of calling her bluff, and telling her that it's time NOW to make a decision. Time to get re-involved in the M and family as a whole (which will involve work like going to a MC, etc.), or get out NOW, so that you can rebuild your life and the lives of your children, after all, you're not getting any younger either. You don't have to get into a R talk because she has noticed your changes. You just want to get on with your life with or without her. I suspect that she may be waiting for the EA OM to get his D completed, not for son to be out of school. MLCers are selfish that way.
Good luck with whatever happens.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
you both bring up valid points and my frustration is with having the answer sheet to the test, but not knowing if the answers are all in order. I've seen it mentioned, I think by Jack, that they tend to follow a script on their way into MLC. Once there, there are similarities, but the stories all seem to have a different course. I think I'm just trying to add logic where there is no logic.....
My wife was a very giving, caring person for as long as I'd known her. She still loves her kids and "seems" to enjoy spending time with them, but given the chance, she's out the door or doesn't come home after work till the kids are in bed. She doesn't try to manipulate my emotions, I don't think. She will call or text me if she will not be home - but only because she didn't like my answers when the kids would ask me:
"I have no idea where your mom is. She's a grown woman and can take care of herself."
She didn't like that I said this because the kids paniced to her. I asked her if she would rather I tell them she's at the grocery store for 5 hours or tell them the truth, that I really don't know where she is or what she's doing? I've not asked my wife what she does or where she goes for the past 2 years. It's a struggle to not look like I'm invading her privacy or acting like I don't care about her and she was right all along or whatever.....
I can't ask her to leave for two reasons. First, the kids, I can't be there for them financially or emotionally if their living under a different roof. They are the only reason I will cry. They are the only reason I'm frustrated with my wife for accepting her reality as truth and not question that truth when everyone closest to her has told her she needs help. My wife is a very strong woman, but I see her stubborness as her downfall in all of this.
The second reason for not asking her to leave, as I had mentioned, I've read a lot of material and I accept that there is no one right way to do everything. What rings most true for me, though; is that she's going through this and I can't just abandon her. I don't think I have a problem letting go, so much as I don't want to do the leg work for her. My wife and I are not hostile to each other, but we're not loving either. It's not healthy for the kids, but what about this whole situation is? The only way my lovely stubborn wife has "ever" seen the error of her decisions, is by me allowing her decisions to bear fruit.
A simple example would be when one of my kids had a game to get too. My wife wanted to stop at the mall right quick on the way because she thought we had time. I disagreed with this assessment, but knew that I would be the bad guy if we didn't at least try to go since it's what she wanted. Sure enough, we got held up and my son was late. I wasn't angry and I didn't press the issue, but she knew she made a bad decision and felt bad that our son was late. Lesson learned.
I feel that if I force my wife to make a decision, I'm not giving her the benefit of taking ownership of her decisions. She blames me for her misery, so why give her more fuel?
I don't like living like this, but I'm not eyeballing women or looking for a replacement. I'm not bitter, I just know there's more work to be done with me, that I have to clean my own house.
#################### BM - you bring up a fine point about the possibility of my wife waiting out the OM's divorce. My therapist, whom I don't like anyway, presses the same thought. I'm not saying I don't like you for suggesting that, I'm just saying that I'm not fond of my therapist and she keeps pushing my thoughts towards my wife having a PA. I keep going to to her because she offers a different avenue of thought than what I'm thinking and hearing someone constantly pushing the PA button seems to be helping me cope with the possible reality of that. Kind of like, the more you hear it, the less it hurts.
But as to your point about her waiting on the other guy's divorce. I welcome it. My wife needs to experience the full brunt of her decisions if she is ever to see her error. We live in a cottage home, not large by any means, but my kids constantly verbalize their fear that we would have to move into a smaller house. My wife's EA lives in a house half the size of ours and there's barely enough room for when his own two kids come over. Speaking of kids, my oldest son "HATES" his friends younger sister. And I mean "HATES" her. I'm not a doctor, but she looks/acts bi-polar to me and even I can't stand being around her - when I used to be around her. My son would make life very difficult for his mother if she chose his friends dad.
I've also read from women who've gone through MLC saying that they searched for value and self-worth and that in the end, their husbands staying strong and being there for them was important for them when they started their way out of the tunnel. I know that doesn't mean we have to be together for this to happen, but I do sense my wife's struggle to find self-worth ( i.e.; brest job & younger wardrobe ). I can't shake the feeling that if I force her to leave, she will fall further into the tunnel by my own hand and she will cling even harder to the thought that I'm the source of all that causes her discomfort.
I like to think I've come to terms with the idea that I'm greatful for this experience. I'm still coming to grips with the idea that my marriage will not survive this, but at the very least I can say that I like who I've become and that I really wasn't happy with who I was in the beginning.
Maybe I've detached enough, but I won't know for certain until the paperwork starts its filing process. I do know that I don't want to be around someone who treats me like a fifth class citizen. I'll struggle financially, but I'll be okay. My kids are the source of my heart break.
Well, my words were just ideas that you might try. I understand where you're coming from re your children, and being there for your W if/when she comes out of the tunnel. It is a sort of illness. Many people do wait it out ... I've been here with my H for 7 years, still waiting (kinda), but detached. The time is coming, though, where it's getting too late to reconcile. I'm already checking out L's in our area, and planning on leaving. H still wants his divorce, but still hasn't made a move, as far as I know. WCW also waited years, and her H seems to be walking back ... they stayed under the same roof throughout his MLC. We all have unique situations.
Your W may be waiting for OM, but if they do end up together, reality will set in, and she may find that it won't be all it's panned out to be. Whether she's having a PA or EA, is irrelevant right now. Not much you can do about it. Your children are the one's who need protecting (and it's hard to do that in this kind of situation ... believe me, I know from my own children), and I can tell they mean everything to you.
Just some thoughts.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
RoofTop, having walked in your shoes (partially, mine was/is hostile) I can say I think you are spot on with focusing on the kids. You know what you know and you don't know what you don't know. Her journey is her journey and she didn't invite you along, but the kids need you to be and stay stable for them. I was very surprised (should not have been, but hey, I'm just a kid ) at the hostility and how it affected the kids. What happens over time is even more interesting. This tore my kids up along with my family and all before my eyes. Broke my heart to see and hear my kids suffer like that. I later dealt with the issues myself and I am VERY glad I focused on the kids.
I also felt the need to be supportive because it was obviously not the same person. Know what? She is becoming the same person again and really doesn't remember much of what she did/said. Or at least won't talk about it, right?
"I'm not giving her the benefit of taking ownership of her decisions." Right. Nor should you. I didn't either and I'm VERY glad I didn't. As an exmaple of how she wanted it to be somebody else but her: She once offered me sex if I would initiate the divorce. She tried to get me to hit her, move out, kick her out, etc. I didn't budge. Her choices, her actions and it must be that way for you and for everyone concerned.
"is that she's going through this and I can't just abandon her" Felt the same way. Know what? That's really what others are saying as well. But eventually, you can't stop her from leaving and you do need to let her. It actually gets easier after that except for the kids. You can't win in that sense. And you can't reason with her. But you can get out of the way and let that happen. Much later you'll see more of the details and know you were right for doing exactly what you are doing.
Keep your chin up.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Know what? She is becoming the same person again and really doesn't remember much of what she did/said. Or at least won't talk about it, right?
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move out, kick her out, etc. I didn't budge. Her choices, her actions and it must be that way for you and for everyone concerned.
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But you can get out of the way and let that happen. Much later you'll see more of the details and know you were right for doing exactly what you are doing.
My sitch appears to bearing these out as well...took me long enough to get out of the way, though...
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
I remember being in that holding pattern. I also planned to stick it out, because I had a feeling H would go no where unless pushed. However, when EA turned to PA and the lies got bigger and bolder, I drew the line. (and yes, H swore for months EA would never be PA.) We lived in an area that was like a small town and people were talking and my children were listening. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I hadn't asked H to leave, but I do feel that I would worse of emotionally. I'm not saying you are, but sometimes pushing them out of the nest and letting them see if they can do it on their own is a big wake up call. It is hard on the children. They have always been why I have put up with more than I thought I would. However, the times I drew the line (asking H to leave and then again when I fully detached) it was when I worried what kind of role model I was being to my children. On one hand I had always wanted to be the role model that showed them that you stuck it out in marriage, but now I want them to know that while I still value marriage, I also value my self respect and I do not have someone in my life who lies and cheats on a regular basis. My dd is 11 and just starting to notice boys, I to limit her exposure to H's mlc behavior...which is more obvious around me. It is a tough call what to do next. Live for yourself and your children but maybe there is a way to let go of your wife more?
Me-36 H-37 D11 S8 S6 M9 T19 ILYNILWY 11/10 discover EA 02/11 discover EA is really PA/H moved out 03/11 H wants to go to counselling,piecing 12/11 Find out still OW(plural), I'm officially done/detached 04/12
I used to think about all the things I would say to my wife if she ever asked. If she ever said she was sorry. It doesn't matter to me anymore. I don't know that I'll ever be able to say how I really feel about her comment - "I deserve to be happy and I'm not getting any younger."
I guess that's how I know I'll be okay. Or at least it's what I use to fuel my energy towards better thoughts and actions. I can be happy if I choose to be. I can sit and enjoy the sound of the wind through the trees, but she will always be miserable as long as she keeps believing she can meet a false sense of expectations.
I can say here that I'm not a bad person, but what's the point since we are all good people here. Bad people don't look for help or offer their hearts to strangers. So it goes without saying that I will struggle more each day with how the in-laws will view me. I'm closer to them than my own family and as complications will arise once my wife leaves and I offer them nothing for information, I'm sure I will be perceived as being not so nice.
It's another thing that does make me unhappy. The thought that everyone thinks I'm angry all the time. I don't yell or raise my voice. I don't sulk or mope, but I'm constantly treated with kid gloves and it drives me batty. The worst is in regards to my son's friends dad - the EA. My wife is turning into a BFF with his mother-in-law and it's like a double whammy against me. It's like, because his divorce is going along bitterly and his soon-to-be XW is raking him through hot coals, I must be doing the same for my W because she can't stand to be around me.
Even my son starts off conversations with "Don't be mad" or "I know what you mean about OM". What the heck is talking about?! I got tired of him asking me to come over to OM's house and told my son that I was not comfortable around the OM and that's just how it will be for a while. I'm not angry, but I'm not interested in spending time at OM's house.
I'm not "as bent out of shape" as I used to be about my W spending so much time over there. He offers her nothing but misery to match her misery. If it's a sense of value that she's looking for, I'm curious what she will find when the honeymoon is over. When she sees that the OM is actually hard work because of his baggage. His wife is hell bent on making his life miserable and she hates my W even more. I'm sure my W will eventually grow tired of it when she realizes she doesn't have to share in the misery, even if that's a long ways down the road. That sounds vindictive of me, but I'm not going to celebrate the EA either.
I'm scared that I will not have the resolve to forge ahead through this if she doesn't leave and I'm bent badly over how a seperation will impact my kids.
I guess that's why I came back here to the forums. Just like everyone else, I want to talk and I want to read and be informed. I feel more in control of myself than I ever had before, but there's still so much more work to do. Still so much to absorb.
