Yes, I did remember that you went before. The problem I have is that many of them really aren't that good. I spoke to six of them, met with three, and finally found one that was good.
If I were looking for a fast runner, it would be easy to figure out who was the fastest, but there's really no way to evaluate how good an MC is until you've seen what they have to offer in person.
In terms of what to tell them, I would walk in (by yourself) and basically explain that you're so frustrated with your marriage that you don't know if it can be saved. I would tell them that you're motivated to stay together for the sake of your son, but the situation with your H is such that you no longer trust him to do anything he says he's going to do, that you feel he's disrespectful, and you just don't like him anymore. I would also try to share H's perspective.
Then, I would ask them how they intend to help you?
The other thing I insist on is the ability to send all the background info via e-mail first, so you don't get charged for a session just to cover the groundwork.
Of the 3 MC's I met with, one was going to focus on "reflective listening exercises" and saw communication as the way to solve anything. That wasn't going to work for me, we actually communicate quite well -- that would have been a waste of several months.
The second MC was going to take the "childhood experiences" path, how those experiences have shaped who you are, what hurts you have that need to be addressed, etc. That wasn't going to work, W isn't interested in going into her childhood hurts, and that approach isn't solution based.
The third MC (who has published 10 or so relationship books) got right to the issue that W did not feel "safe" in the marriage in that she never felt like she was good enough, and had some ideas for what could be done about that.
It's when you get those "ah ha" moments that it's worth proceeding.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
i want to apologize for last night - i was really hard on you and awful blunt and i am mortified that i reacted that way. please accept my apologies
what i read about what you had written set off some real triggers for me, and instead of working through them i reacted to you. if it makes you feel any better, you were instrumental in helping me work through stuff that i didn't even know was there.
i think that the advice that KD and accuray and others are giving you is really beautiful. i think i was trying to say the same things - but in an accusing tone rather than non-judgementally. i have a lot to work on within myself
please forgive me
zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
It's okay, Zig! I really do much better with direct, even blunt, statements. So you actually did me a favor by responding the way you did, so don't feel bad on my account.
So, been away for the weekend visiting H's family. H was very grateful for my pleasant attitude and charming behavior with his family (he said so.) On the way home, I tried asking him about his sitch with his oldest daughter (long story, they really aren't speaking.) I was on the positive side, trying to encourage him to re-engage. He was very resistant to speaking to me about it (long silences, vague answers.) At one point, tied me into being the reason he doesn't speak to her, but his responses were never consistent and long between question and answer, so it was really quite confusing to me.
I mentioned that it was obvious to me that he wasn't invested in the convo, was resistant to engaging with me (he agreed.) I said that I had really been trying to come up with an answer to his email from last week, and that my only answer is that we needed to get to know each other better, to share in a more intimate way, and that it was obvious that he wasn't on board with that. He explained that he was and that he had shared in an intimate way, when he discussed his job change considerations (ie the benefits/disadvantages of one job over the other.) I said that I had a very different need for intimacy than he was describing, and perhaps that was the crux of our problems. Also, that it was really the only answer I could come up with on how to improve our R, that perhaps he needed to come up with an idea instead.
Am I off on my perception of what an intimate relationship looks like between M'd couples? This sitch with his daughter has been going on for about 5 years, and he blames me somehow. As I'm trying to respond by butting out, he's telling me I need to be engaged, and closing me off at the same time.
Well, it's more about you sharing than him sharing. Passionate Marriage has a model where you make yourself truly vulnerable, let yourself be truly "seen", but you do it because you want to, not because you need to. The goal is also to not be effected by the response -- I.e. if you get criticized you don't care because you don't measure yourself by H's reaction to you.
That's what the book says. I'm working on it. My W does not like to share. She tries to make me believe she doesn't think about our relationship at all, doesn't do any introspection, she just "is".
I don't buy it.
I do share, I'm willing to be vulnerable and I really am not bothered by how she responds to what I say, but the lack of reciprocation bothers me.
CV, in the exchange above, you were choosing the topic for his intimacy and that's not how it's supposed to work, he needs to choose.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I've said all along, you're capable of much more than I am. But I'm still rooting for you!! Don't let my lack of ability discourage you.
Yes, the topic should be his. On the trip out of town when I was acting in a way he "approved" of, he chose to share intimately about his job change decisions (ie, this one pays more, that one is further away, this guy would be reporting to him and he was a slouch, that person would now be his boss, etc.) THAT was HIS choice. That's what he defined as intimate conversation.
I'm just asking, is that it? Are my expectations too high? I could easily see him having this same conversation with any of our friends. Is this just a boy/girl thing? I'm just trying to connect that conversation somehow to my ultimately wanting to have sex with him again....
CV, I've been doing some thinking about your sitch over the weekend.
One of the hardest things for an LBS is to empathize with the WAS.
Why would the WAS want to leave? What needs were not being met? How were we not listening to the WAS? How were our actions interpreted in a negative way by the WAS and what can we do to change that...?
One of the reasons why I feel you are not ready yet, is because it feels like you are still not ready to empathize with your LBS.
I'm not putting blame on you nor holding your H harmless. He has issues that he will need to work on.
Again, I suppose you have, but please read the more recent posts by Brit on her thread. Notice the introspection she is doing and how she is empathizing with her LBS. It's not that he's harmless, just that she is understanding that he has his reasons for not engaging her in a way that she needed.
He gave up... just like I suspect many LBSs give up... it's a crazy game... the LBS gives up and shuts down... and the WAS feels less desired or understood or that any manner of needs the WAS has are further being unmet... so the WAS takes that as further proof that the LBS is better left...
You are still seeing the sitch as what YOU can (or should) get...
I understand that...
Again, I think it's difficult for BOTH sides of this horrible coin to understand that BOTH partners are probably disengaged because their needs are not being met... even if the LBS believes that they were blind sided by the bomb...
You may very likely find the words for your response to your H's email... when you take the time to try to empathize and understand what your H is really feeling... and really wanting...
Which is why taking time to respond... GALing and responsibly and respectfully taking on your own life while you work through stuff is important... detaching so that you can think through... possibly understand his position... rather than reacting (often negatively) to anything that you perceive as your H's poor behaviour...
I also appreciate that these type of posts may feel like an attack on you and that's not the intention... it is just a continued reminder that your feelings are valid...
and so are your H's...
and if you think your H is being hurtful or harmful to the M...
it could just be that you see it that way... because maybe he just doesn't trust re-engaging you in a way that you need... because he's just given up...
KD, I thought I was evaluating myself and trying to empathize with him in asking if this "intimate" conversation was all there was, if my expectations are too high. If they are, then that's an area I need to work on. I know a lot about what I H did growing up (there's his H.S., that's where he played basketball, he floated on that river one summer, etc.) I just don't have a clue who he is, today. Everything he did share on an emotional level was before we got M'd, and all that has proven to be not true.
I'm trying to evaluate my expectations, against what HE says is intimacy. Any thoughts on that?
Everything he did share on an emotional level was before we got M'd, and all that has proven to be not true.
Just wanted to chime in and say I'm in a similar place with regard to the intimacy in our marriage (he admits to hiding from me) and H's relationship with his D (she has relegated him to uncle, and her step father is her dad; she feels he resents her).
I think it comes down to trust. I believe H wanted to trust me, but he didn't know how. He carries a lot of shame, which I believe comes from his family of origin (dominant mother, *ineffectual* father). Until he can trust me, or anybody for that matter, no relationship is possible. Question is, how to get that trust, how to establish a safe place (in recognition of the fact that we can't control their feelings of safety)?
Do you feel your husband trusts you? Are there any issues with shame? How about guilt? What was his parents' relationship like?
In terms of evaluating your expectations....your intimacy needs must be met by your partner. You cannot dial them back...they are needs, not wants.
I suggest you watch and see whether he is able or willing to TRULY share on an emotional level. The decision making process with regards to his job is not intimacy, regardless of whether he thinks it is. It's superficial information.
To be intimate is to share your true self openly and honestly without hiding or witholding...your hopes, fears, passions, sorrows, etc. It involves a deep level of trust and requires making oneself vulnerable. It is not the same as being subsumed by the other; nor is it codependency. IMHO, until a spouse can be truly intimate s/he is not fully present and will always have one foot out the door.
This doesn't mean I don't empathize. It is incredibly, unbelievably hard for some people to open up, especially if there are negative emotions like guilt and shame percolating at the core. Some people just aren't capapable of letting anybody in, want to though they may. Others need to learn how, but it's a long, long road.
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
