my mother is the classic narcissist. i had to terminate all contact with her because she is so toxic. i, too, kept thinking, "it might be possible for me to have something better in my R" with her. i kept trying to forgive her and excuse her behavior, hoping the next time it would be better, thinking it was something i could fix if i were just a better daughter.
as you said, it isn't curable. there's nothing you can do.
M:63 H:53 S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23 M:15 T:16
Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways." H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12 12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing
How does one get a diagnosis for narcissism? I'm not qualified, it's just my personal perspective/experience. It would stink to go that route, only to find out I'm wrong.
I checked out the test. If he took it, he wouldn't test out as narcissistic because he would know how he's supposed to answer. (Pretty much how he convinced me to marry him.) So I took the test for him and he's pretty much spot on. There's just a few areas that don't apply to him at all, which is what throws me off on a flat-out conclusion. For example, he isn't career motivated. He doesn't want to "rule the world," he just wants to wear the crown. He doesn't want authority over other people (too much work and responsibility) but he certainly doesn't want to be told what to do. He's not obsessed with body image at all, doesn't even notice the 40 pounds he put on. Likes to be the center of attention but it's just "all for fun."
It makes me sad. Not just for me but for him. He does have abilities that if directed "for good instead of evil" would take him far. But my trying to help him looks too much like nagging or telling him what to do. Everyone else just thinks he's a such nice guy and wouldn't even tell him if his fly was open.
So my biggest question/fear -- what if I'm the narcissist and I'm the one with the blinders?
My MiL was diagnosed because she is also manic depressive. They nailed the narcissism when they were evaluating her for meds for bipolar disorder.
In terms of your question: "if you believed she felt the same, what did you attribute her lack of interest to?"
Ha! I couldn't figure it out at all. It tortured me for years! At one point I was about 80% convinced she must be gay. Ironically because she seemed to have no interest in sex at all I also figured she'd never have an affair -- what would be the point?
I know better now!
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
what if I'm the narcissist and I'm the one with the blinders?
A good thing to think about for anyone, not just for you.
In brutal honesty CV, I do believe that your image of your husband is so poisoned at this point that he can do no right. I understand it annoys you, but falling asleep and snoring while watching a movie at home could be viewed as a fairly minor infraction right?
It does feel to me like you have a very distinct set of expectations for what a husband should be, and you feel he falls short on virtually all of them.
I also believe that if he steps up in some areas, you're going to continue to focus on his shortcomings.
That's probably not news to you since you categorize yourself as a WAW.
Is it fair to say that you're not really looking for anything to change, you're mainly here looking for support in ways to cope?
I believe that your H is difficult to live with, and I believe that he doesn't give you the respect, love, or affection that you believe is your due -- but I also believe that your impression of him is so far gone, that there's nothing HE can do to turn this around.
Your situation frustrates me, because I would love to learn if there was anything that would be meaningful to H to motivate him to better meet your needs, and if he were to start to do so, if you would give him a chance.
I feel like we got a glimpse of that when you complimented him and he then went out and fixed the side of your house. That whole episode seemed very positive, but it didn't seem to have any legs to it and didn't keep going.
I would guess that he is also hurt and frustrated.
One interesting exercise might be to think about how he would describe your marriage? What would he say about you and how he is treated?
Would you agree with his characterization? Would you care? (I think you would)
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
"I have other sights that I can go to if I want people to tell me to "dump the a-hole." I want to know what I'm supposed to do to save my M as someone with bags packed and one foot out the door. I would love for people here to talk to me as if I'm the WAS (I am!) Much of the advice, like yours, is offered as if I'm the LBS. It's about as effective on me as it would be on your WAS."
I suggest you STRIP the WAS/LBS distinction from your mind. In the end, it really isn't very meaningful and it seems to get in your way. The only way you can improve your R is through things you can control and through working on yourself. It doesn't matter if you are thinking of leaving or H is thinking of leaving. He has certainly been as checked out of the M as much as you have, if not more. There are plenty of "LBSs" here who are thinking of dumping there spouses, even in "Piecing." In sum, your case is not all that distinctive, you aren't really in a very different position from most people here. You have a spouse who cheats. You are struggling to make things work. You don't even know if you want to. Pretty standard stuff.
I'd also suggest you dump the man/woman Differences (with a capital "D") focus. Whether or not such general patterns hold is very debatable, but IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER. Even if there are such general patterns, each person is different. It does not follow from "In general, men will X" that "H will X."
Here is how things look to me:
(1) You VERY DEEPLY resent H's failure to adequately treat his sleep apnea. Certainly understandable. It disrupts your sleep. It keeps him in a constant state of sleep deprivation which makes him fall asleep during movies and generally sleep at the drop of a hat, it probably keeps him emotionally and physically stretched so that he is not a very giving guy and probably often selfish and irritable because he's often at his emotional and physical limits, it dramatically increases his chances of a heart attack and other health problems. It hurts him, it hurts you, it hurts your M, it hurts your family. And, he does nothing about it. I'd resent the hell out of it too. Neither of you really has any idea of what life would be like if he took proper care of himself. It really is NOT OK for him not to treat his sleep apnea. If I were in your position, I'd make an appointment with a neurologist who specializes in sleep disorders for him, I'd attend the appointment with him, and I'd very directly say to him and the doctor: "Look, our marriage is on the line here. I believe that H is hurting himself, me, our marriage, and our family by choosing not to properly manage his sleep apnea. It is NOT OK with me."
(2) You punish H for his sleep apnea by withdrawing.
(3) I think your H likes shared experiences and being together. If you've read 5LL, he might be a gifts person who really thrives on the gift of your presence. The present of presence. It is the BEING TOGETHER that matters. It is the SHARING experiences that matters. It is not so much what the experience is, it is SHARING it. My H falls asleep watching movies too. But I LIKE him just to BE WITH ME on the couch. I like to share my food and share H's food at a restaurant. I even feel hurt when he doesn't want to. And, it has nothing to do with the food. It is because I want to SHARE the experience of the new food I'm tasting -- even if it is something I don't like and don't think he'll like. I just want to SHARE. To be in the world experiencing it together. To push away solipsism perhaps. It is a perfectly normal, non-selfish, human reaction to feel good and to feel supported and loved by the presence of a loved one. It is a perfectly normal, non-selfish, human reaction to feel good and to feel supported and loved by sharing experiences with a loved one. Simply BEING together and SHARING experiences are deep and profound ways of building intimacy.
(4) You are very skilled at painting a picture in your own mind of what you are like and rationalizing away any divergence with reality. You are a bit frustrated with us because while it convinces others including yourself, you don't seem to be convincing us very well. The bitterness, the anger, the hypercriticism, the resentment, the coldness, the judgment. You deny them, but it is rather like closing your eyes and expecting everyone else to stop seeing too. The one thing you can do that will make your life better no matter what happens in your M is to stop the denial. Try saying this: "Yes, I am pissed as hell at H and resent him so much that there isn't much of anything he can do that doesn't tick me off. I'm constantly critical of him because of my pain, but I'm skilled enough with my criticism that I can deny it without skipping a beat. I'm hurt and lonely. Damn him for not being there. Damn him for not treating the sleep apnea. F him and anything he wants. He doesn't deserve anything he wants, he's a spoiled selfish brat who can't even take care of himself like an adult. No way I can want, love, or respect a guy like that." GET REAL WITH YOURSELF.
would take him far. But my trying to help him looks too much like nagging or telling him what to do. Everyone else just thinks he's a such nice guy and wouldn't even tell him if his fly was open.