My own thread...my sordid story.

[Meredith]

GO PAM!!!

Wow, your counselor is very lucky that she doesn’t have me for a patient…if she had told me to "tell your friend Betsey that I am capable of doing my job myself!" I would have had no choice but to reply with “Then would you mind DOING it please?” OOPS, that was the old Meredith…the new one would have smiled and said, “If I doubted your capabilities I wouldn’t continue to come. However, I would appreciate a little more in the way of solutions in the future”.

(translation: I am supposed to have been put on this Earth to anticipate each of his needs and feelings, and instinctively know the right way to handle it all!)

Aren’t we though? They all seem to think that…

The man who isn't sure he wants to be married is afraid of coming out with the deal-breaker to our marriage?????

Now, has your H ever actually said (recently, I mean) that he isn’t sure he wants to be married? You know, it doesn’t matter…this is where Michele’s “believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see…” comes into play. What we can SEE is that your H is home, your H is in counseling, your H is trying – although maybe not at the speed of light – to do some nice things for you…so what I SEE is that he really does want to be married.

In the past, have you become defensive about the things he’d bring up that bother him? Maybe he isn’t ready to trust the shark yet…maybe he still thinks he’ll be the fish half of Betsey’s fish and chips dinner if he brings up anything negative. Maybe your hatred of limbo land is showing through in ways you don’t intend…and he takes that to mean that you’re on the brink of filing and doesn’t want to do anything to knock you over the edge?

I know with Sting, I tried to stop using angry words with him and thought that I was hiding my anger well…but he still complained that I was angry all the time. It shows through in ways we don’t realize…and then they become afraid us through the fear of conflict.

I’m glad you’ve put some new goals into place!! I need to do the same…

GO YOU !!!!!

[Underdog]

Go PAM!

Boy is your C insecure or what? It's not like I came up with the ideas--that was my solution-oriented brief counseling MC who came up with them. What a bimbo!

Now I'm going to report in my own thread something that you addressed in yours--about our men and their expectations of our expressing emotions that they are clearly uncomfortable with.

I'm still sober so don't worry about Bruce today. Go you! Go Meredith! Go me!

Bruce

[kml]

Pam - boy, I'd suggest losing that loser of a counselor in a heartbeat if I wasn't afraid your H might view it as a negative, or be reluctant to start with a new one. What a complete wanker!

Here's a thought - since your H IS willing to go to therapy with you - would he be willing to watch or listen to the KLA tapes with you? They cover a lot of the same ground as the DB book, but a little more oriented towards couples (rather than desperate LBSs). Might do more good than your therapy with the wanker. (and by the way, for your therapist, expecting your spouse to just "know" what you want without you communicating it is an infantile view of relationships).

What a wanker!!!

Ellie

[Meredith]

Pam,

I have the CD collection of the KLA program, which you are more than welcome to borrow!

[CMNM]

"what a wanker"
I have been getting a good laugh out of that!
Yes, I'd like to dump her, because for a cheapskate like me, throwing $95 out the window once a week is KILLING ME! But, if I left this C, H would definately not do this again.

Meredith, it took everything I had to not jump all over her yesterday. My H would have never let me go back if I did. I am not one to take crappy service from anyone. If I am paying for it, I expect to have it done right. One snotty remark from me would have guaranteed a step closer to the big D. "You'll NEVER change, Pamela...."

I would love to take a look at those tapes. Ahh! I'll have to meet up with you! I hope I make a good impression!

Now, I will have to go look closer at all the other posts that happened while I was slaving away at work today. I know there is a question that you asked, Meredith, that I wanted to answer. And, I have to go check out this big news of Betsey's!
Hope you'll all be around this weekend! I'm going to get dinner moving, then be back later.

[Underdog]

I laughed at Ellie's wanker description myself...

Dare I say you're getting a decent deal on the C? Although it certainly does sound like a lot to be getting advice from a bimbo wanker... We pay ours $125 every session. I guess the fact that we aren't going should make me financially grateful?

[CMNM]

Hi, all.
Well, I just sat in the tub for an hour staring at the 2 assignments given to me by Betsey.
1. Notice and log things that your H does that make you happy.
2. "Share when you're ready" what you think happens or doesn't happen to start your "insecurity feeding frenzy."

First off, do not be alarmed that this is the 2nd time I have publicly announced that I was thinking of you guys while bathing!
Anyway-
WAAAAH! I hate this assignment! I went into it all excited, the way I get when about to take a test (I'm a good test taker, so I look forward to them...) THEN I realized I would fail this one.
So, a good hour later (and lots of wrinkles) I came up with very weak answers.
Plainly and simply, I start the feeding frenzy when I am feeling neglected, or when my efforts go unappreciated. Unfortunately, I feel this way much too often. I'm sure I feel that way much more often than reality dictates I should. I honestly do not want H to give me his undivided attention at all times. I would hate that! In fact, I rarely like the men who like me. My history has been to lose interest in men that show interest in me. I think what attracted me to H is that I was never totally secure in his love. I guess it is always a work in progress, and that keeps me unbalanced. I am afraid I will get too bored with security. That's the crazymaker in me, huh?
So, that's not much of an answer, is it? Get out your red pens, girls. Give me a big fat zero, but please, give me some guidelines for the resubmission...

Noticing and listing things that H does to make me happy is difficult too. I started to make a list of things he has DONE to make me happy, then I noticed that it said to "notice and log things.." which means this is present tense, not past. So, now I am sad, because I feel like a shrew. I cannot come up with anything right now. I swear, I am not hard to please at all! The few things I came up with were things he did as a result of first doing or saying somethig pretty crummy, so they have bad associations for me, and don't really make me happy. So, I guess all I can say is that I will try harder to notice things. Better yet, I will have to try harder to disassociate the bad with the good. Right?

I think that I just did kind of a stupid thing.
H called and said that he was going to get a beer after work today. I was not happy about this, but I just said, "O.K., see you later then."
Let me explain why this bothers me:
He was gone all last weekend until Tuesday. Now another night to himself?
Let us not forget that he was forging some kind of emotional relationship with a co-worker not too long ago. No clue about the status of this. Was she there???
I made dinner (lasagna, garlic bread, salad, and pie for dessert) and the 2 older boys already bailed on me. Why do I bother?
And,
He reminded me in counseling last night that this is not a good time for him to be talking as much as I'd like because he's so busy at work. Let's see, he just took off 3 days to go away, and he was calling me at 4:45 on his way to a bar. Translation: I am busy when it concerns you. When it concerns me, my job is not really as important as I say it is.
So,
I smartly followed "Underdog's Golden Rule." When H called hours later to say he was on his way home, I didn't answer. I knew I couldn't be upbeat. Instead, I took my notebook up to the tub and soaked in a nice warm bubblebath.
He, however, feeling guilty, came right up to my sanctuary when he came in. He commented on the dinner, and asked why I didn't tell him that I had a whole dinner prepared. He said maybe he would have come straight home. So, after what he had told me about my manipulation tendencies, I said, (and I SWEAR this was not intended in a snotty manner) "wouldn't that be manipulative?"

He got angry. He said I didn't have to be sarcastic. I tried to explain that I didn't intend to be. I simply thought that saying, "But I have dinner on the table!" would have been seen as a form of manipulating him to come home.

As I can never seem to shut up, I further went on with:
"You said that you don't want to be told what I want because then it wouldn't be 'real'. You chose to go out for a beer instead of coming home for dinner. That was your 'reality.'"
O.K., he could not win here, so he walked away.

Oddly enough though, he is the picture of attentiveness now. He asked a little bit ago if we could play scrabble tonight.
AHHHHH!
I am so tired of this push and pull. H says that's what our relationship is based on.

So, that's today. It is now 11 p.m., and I think I will skip the Scrabble and go to bed. I need the solitude.

[Underdog]

(((((Pamela)))))

I didn't mean for those homework assignments to make you fret. Don't fret...

You know what I think? You've got so much on your plate right now that it MUST be time for a break from all this hard work. And it IS hard work, Pam.

Put the assignment away until you feel up to it. But in the mean time, I'm not giving you license to go off the deep end in a sulk.

I also have to give you a blue ribbon. You're doing all of this with your H in residence. Anchor and I are not. While I don't recommend separation to anyone, it has its benefits. For one, we have their absence most of the time, and this time is spent wishing they were back home helping us raise our kids.

I admit this freely. I also wonder if I'd be as good at this if Mr. W. were living with me. I sincerely doubt it. His overall negativity and unwillingness to cooperate in finding solutions would probably have me down in the dumps a whole lot more than I am (which is not very often).

But it has its drawbacks. I have to pay a hefty mortgage on my own. While he pays me child support, remember that I have 2 little kids who always seem to need money for something. And if they don't need money, they need clothes. Thankfully, they are not boys and eating me out of house and home. But one of them is disabled (thank you Medicaid).

What I'm trying to say is that each of us has been given a unique set of circumstances. What happened to us as individuals probably is a godsend. While I don't know if I could deal with Mr. W. living with me while we sort this stuff out, I don't know if I could be Meredith and raising an 18-month old by myself. Neither of you would probably offer to have a disabled daughter. We all got what we can handle.

And yes, life totally sucks sometimes. (In fact, that IS the title of one of my chapters in my manuscript.)

Go easy on yourselves. You and your H have had a lot of history--some bad and most good. It's not going to be easy or quick to work through this stuff. After all, you didn't get in this mess overnight, did you?

Why not see the homework assignment as work in process. That can be your compass on what direction you're heading with him and it can provide you with proof of your progress.

Not to mention your posts here.

We can discuss the beer after work when this fog clears. Let's sit it out until it happens, okay?

Big hugs,

Betsey

p.s. Your next bathing incident MUST include a bathing suit! Since I have a hot tub, you can do that here!

[CMNM]

Thanks Betsey!
You're right, this is hard work. I think you'll notice that very notion has slowly begun to dawn on me as of late.
Being hurt is the easy part! I know that sounds odd, but it's true. When you're hurt, you know what to do with yourself. You sit around and hate your life and justify eating 4 gallons of ice cream or whatever (o.k., cheesy nachos in my case! ) But, when you decide to repair yourself and stop being hurt, well, it is very difficult.

I often feel guilty about my situation as compared to yours, Meredith's, Pattie's, etc. After all, who am I to be in this "club?" H is home, h is in counseling. My sexual 'dry spell' lasted all of 2 months, tops.
Dammit, Betsey! Why do I spend so much of my life feeling guilty?
You're right, I doubt that I could handle what has been given to you. I would like to think that I could, but, who knows? I guess someone knew what He was doing when handing out our life assignments. Thank you, though, for recognizing that while my sitch would seem great to some folks, it does have it's own drawbacks.

When I first started posting here, someone (I think maybe Tracy) got aggravated with what I was saying and retorted with, "I would LOVE to have my H at home." It doesn't seem fair to say, "I would love to have my H move out until he is ready to fully commit to me."

I feel as though I keep falling into the same old trap. What am I missing here? To remain upbeat through the phone calls that are once again, in my opinion, a form of rejection....well, it makes me feel as if I am saying, "You do what you want! I will sit and wait for you!"
That is not who I want to be.

I DO NOT mind him going out for a beer. It does hurt to find out that so and so's wife (not part of the workplace) showed up there...

And, you could say that I don't HAVE to sit around. Well, much of the time I haven't a choice. My oldest son owns a classic car that would not perform very well in the snow (and -10 degree weather we've been having). Last night he left for work in my vehicle. So, I am kinda stuck. Plus, I do have S3 to stay with.

Anyway, Betsey, thank you for understanding.
I know I am a work in progress!

And, I will find a way to shake off this "poor me" mood. This counselor thing is really bothering me. It is a waste of my time, and causing more stress than it's worth. I think that $700 into it, I would have gotten something out of it! Oh, wait, I did! I now realize that H and I are "different."

Off to watch Nemo.
I need some inspiration!!!!

[Underdog]

Oh, Pamela, who said that because your H is home that you "should feel grateful"? That's awful and certainly not validating... and isn't that what most of us are here to learn?

And if we all had the same life, we'd be cookies... all cut from the same cutter. Not very realistic, is it?

I can tell your C is bugging you. Since I think you feel she is helping your H, why not approach your next session from a different perspective? You might be able to consider yourself as attending for moral support, because she IS helping your H.

And if you take away any kernels of knowledge, then you've gained at least something for yourself. But it might help to remember that she IS helping your H progress... and if he's progressing, your M is progressing.

After all, you have DB/DR and us too--which is why we can share things that we have learned. You can try things here and not tell your H or your wanker MC about the experiments... and then you can take credit for things (in your mind only, though) for being smarter than she is.

For instance, if you took away the procedure to have R talk from my thread (did I post it there or somewhere else? senior moment...). The one where one person asks only questions and the other answers... the interrogator then signals the end of questioning by asking one final question: Is there anything else I should know?

You let that person talk. And then he becomes the interrogator on the same topic and you the responder.

Mr. W. and I have employed that technique since our MC taught it to us. It prevents rebuttals and defensiveness and allows us to move through a hairy R talk in usually about 15 minutes. (Though the issue of Mr. W.'s drinking took longer than that... we both had lots of questions.)

And if your H asks you where you learned it, you can honestly say a MC... just because it's my MC doesn't make that a lie.

However, I also wouldn't allow too much time to pass if she's not helping you set goals. If you're just in there to vent to each other with a mediator present, you can use the interrogator technique and eliminate her.

Having a pity party is okay, Pamela. It's throwing one continually that isn't. They serve a purpose: to get us off our butts and doing something. If they don't have that motivation, then it's time to let someone else host the damn thing.

It sounds like cabin fever and a restricted social life isn't helping either. Do you live in an isolated area? I'm just trying to figure out how to help you get out with some girlfriends and do the female bonding thing...

It would do you the world of good. Maybe planning a trip is just what you need? And I'm being dead serious about this.

Well, it's supposed to be 62 again today and I'm planning on hitting Albertson's early (to shop for the modified meals on wheels) so I can take a walk before church later this afternoon. Tomorrow, it's supposed to turn crappy so I have to make hay while the sun is shining.

Oh, and I'm glad I'm not helping Mr. Wonderful move!

Big bear hugs.

Bets