I'm so glad that bringing your feelings out on the listening issue worked! He does seem to be switching on the hearing aid now...maybe offer some words of affirmation to reward him for this?
I wish I could say I was a terrible shopper, but I am not. I LOVE to shop as much as H does. The only difference is, I know my limits where he feels that he has none. The credit card people OFFERED him all that money, it isn't real money...it never has to be paid back...wait, what the hell is this bill for?????
It is so funny that you mentioned referring to your husband as ‘H’ and having to catch yourself. Last night, I had a dream in which I actually conversed with H and S calling them H and S. It was very freaky, but I’ll take it to mean that this DBing is now in my blood. If I start actually calling him H…he may have to loose his anonymity on the board!
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Thanks for checking in, Betsey. I've been in a pissy mood, so I was laying low!
I need to vent for a sec! Last night, once again, H came home quite late from work and didn't call. Well, I take that back, he called on the way home, a good hour after he should have been home. I didn't talk to him, just told my son to tell him that I was eating and would talk to him when he got in.
I wasn't mean when he got here; in fact, I didn't say a word about it. I was pleasant, but went to find things to keep me busy while he ate his warmed dinner. (Spaghetti too here, Meredith!) Anyway, he came to find me after he ate to tell me how good the dinner was and to see if I was o.k. I assured him that I was fine, yet turned into a sobbing mess for no reason apparent to even me! (hormones?) Anyway, he lavished attention on me all night. It was a nice night.
Problem? I don't know what to do with this!!! He still wears no ring, still doesn't say he loves me. I have to assume this means a. He doesn't love me and b. He doesn't want to be married
I know I shouldn't assume, but....
The venting part? He is going away this weekend to participate in a sports tournament. He is taking 3 days off work to do this. He is flying clear across the country too! This is the same man who has to be at work whenever possible. The man who will not take a day off, even as his marriage crumbles around him. I'm hurt by this, but I know I can't say a thing, as he has made me no guarantees. It is just so painful to see things getting better, but to still have no security. I guess I should have realized that there really is no such thing as security in marriage anyway. I know that I felt way too secure; this is part of my problem! I just wonder when I get to speak up and say what I think! In better circumstances I would not mind him going at all. It's just that he is burning money and vacation days, with no regard to fixing what ails us. My son asked if he was taking me. He said, "I doubt that mom wants to go stay with 15 other guys for a long weekend." Maybe someone shoulda asked mom! Betsey, Pattie, Meredith--- up for a road trip? That's 4 guys for each of us!!! Wooh Weeeeeeeee.
ANyway, see? I don't know why I am pissy. I just want him to say something regarding the future. This limbo stuff sucks!!!
I’ll tell you what, I will accept your road trip offer if we are NOT heading in your H’s direction! Too much stalking going on around these boards as it is…and you need a fun trip of your own, quite possibly so does your H.
Now, this is something in which I am all too familiar with. I posted somewhere or another that my H is often disappearing to do ‘projects’ on the cottage up north. These projects include all his boys (they are not men, they are BOYS) and too much beer and they go up there and fish and shoot fireworks and do whatever else it is that they do. And it infuriated me to no end. Here we are, haven’t had a weekend away in well over a year and our marriage is a mess. This jackass decides to go away with his boys?!?! WTF?????
So I’d be mad as hell and resent the crap out of him and when I saw him next he’d be in this happy cheery had-a-great-weekend mood. I was ready to kick him back to the cottage in a literal fashion. I must say, it got neither of us anywhere.
But, what if these guys NEED this trip away from us? What if all of these emotions are just as exhausting for them as they are for us? We can come here to the BB, sob to our girlfriends and even vent to the cat about the problems we have with our men. But the men can’t call up another guy and do the same thing, at least my man can’t. So they do guy things. They hang out together and watch sports and play football and drink beer.
Let’s do this. Let’s look at your H going away as a positive. Can you fake it? Be the happiest woman on the planet that your H is leaving. Thrilled would be an understatement…because you love him and want him to have a relaxed weekend. Crap, now I sound like the host on While You Were Out. But, let’s continue on this path for a minute. You’re thrilled he’s going…so now H is confused. The old Pamela wouldn’t be this giddy. Now he’s leaving with curiosity on his mind AND he was sent off positively without being bogged down by guilt for going. Personally, I think bogging someone down with guilt is almost as fun as a day at the spa…but strangely, H doesn’t agree!
Ok, he’s gone…now the weekend belongs to Pamela. What will you do? Change a room in the house? Go shopping? Take a day out at the spa? Go on a road trip with your DB buddies? The possibilities are endless. One thing you will NOT be doing is stewing over H leaving with those damn BOYS rather than working on his marriage.
All right, that was fun. Now the weekend is over, Pam is relaxed from her girly weekend and H is all nice and tired of his friends. Both parties actually MISSED one another since they didn’t have any anger toward the other during the separation. At this time, Pam may say something like “I’m glad you had such a good time (can be replaced with I’m sorry you had a horrible time…no hoping here Pam), I did too. Maybe we can take a weekend trip ourselves soon”. Remember your man is a words man, and while it didn’t say so in the book…I think that negative words really hit home with Words of Affirmation people.
What do you say? Do you accept the challenge? Or are you ready to smack me?
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
(sigh), You're right. I know you're right. I am glad you took the time to write all of that, because I was ready to break down and tell him how hurt I am by this. Your approach is much better. Thank You!
So, H came back from the solo app't last night ready to talk (and talk and talk). I am exhausted! Mostly mentally. I cannot make heads or tails of what he was going for. I felt, for the most part, persecuted. He told me how much all of my words hurt him when I went on my angry tirades against him. I have explained over and over how I was just looking for some attention, and that I know I went about it the wrong way. I have apologized a hundred times, and more importantly, I haven't acted like that in ages. He just said, "You can't continually shoot me full of holes and then think that I can keep coming back, telling you that I love you." So, what am I to do? Just keep listening to this until he has said it enough times? I apologized yet again, and he said that the apology doesn't take away the words. I told him that when I was that irrational I was just grasping, and that I didn't mean most of what I said. I was just trying for a reaction.
I don't mean to sound like I don't think he has the right to do this. He does. So, I am not angry at him. I am just frustrated, because I don't know what to do!!! He never said any of this, and now we are re-hashing everything I have done wrong for the past 15 years!!! I wish he would have said something then! I have no idea where he is going with any of this. He did apologize for moving at a "snail's pace." Moving towards what??? I have no idea if this is a way of getting thru all of this, or more likely, "these are the reasons I can't be with you." I just want to move forward. I will never act that way again. I havesn't acted that way in ages. My fear? That he knows exactly what I need, but really doesn't want to do it for me. I will not be surprised if that is the next conversation. He seems to think that since we speak different LLs, that we just are too different to be together! I will have to highlight the part in the book about how it is rare for 2 people to speak the same exact LL. I feel that I am rambling again! Sorry, lack of sleep. I once again, layed there and cried while he snored the night away....
How's your sitch Meredith? Anything going on?
I wonder where Pattie has been. I hope doing something fun!
Looks like I may end up with another day off today....
I'm glad Meredith is more on your time zone, because she pretty much said what I would have said. I'm going to drive this home for you, though.
What you're going through has been a real problem area for me and Mr. Wonderful. I have been very resentful of his time with the guys or alone and then acted very snotty upon his return. He learned this same behavior from me so that it became a M.O. that spoiled our trips and built even bigger resentment between us.
Our stint with MC this summer really helped me. I know it's tempting to think that using his valuable vacation time in a manner that pleases him is not what you want. And as you noticed, you realize that you fear it means he doesn't value spending time off from work to be with you.
If you, Pattie and Meredith decided to take that road trip west for a girl's DB weekend, would that mean that you didn't want to spend time with him? I'm going to go for broke and bet absolutely not! It would just mean that you wanted to do something special and fun for yourself. Something that your H would not want to do (nor would you want him to come).
I've said this over and over and I'll say it again. What enhances our marriages is having a spouse who has a life outside of us. A life that it centered with others who give our spouses that piece of their pie that we can't fill. And what they bring back to us is not only helpful, but necessary.
I think what you're feeling right now is what I was feeling around Thanksgiving--insecurity because he has not spoken words that you want and need to hear, and his apparent lack of ring wearing is becoming your primary source of concern because it cements his commitment to you.
I think you're going to guess what I'm going to say. You know I have the same exact insecurities (only your H is home, so you're a few steps ahead of me). There are lots of guys who wear their rings who still step out... so don't get your panties in a tangle. The only person you can really control is you. And you and I are both wearing them. That makes a statement all by itself.
And we know that the men have noticed it. Plus, as Meredith accurately pointed out, you are ahead of him in the game and you have the advantage of putting this out here to a zillion people to help talk you through things. He's just bumbling along trying to figure this out on his own. Isn't he lucky to have you for a W?
This will all happen in good time, friend. Be patient. I promise it isn't easy, but you're making progress. So back the hell off and make plans for a girl's road trip!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Thanks Betsey! You know, I used to push him to do more things with "the guys." He has shyed away from having close guy friends ever since his best friend died. So, I knew this was a void in his life. I need to remind myself that any other time I would be thrilled that he was going away. It's just that the timing here sucks! I feel I'm in such a precarious predicament- so the time away is very frightening to me. Thanks for putting it in the way you did about how if I chose time away it wouldn't necessarily mean that I wanted to be away from him. You're right, and I didn't think of it that way. And Meredith, you're right. I have the board here to vent and to "try things out." I can't tell you how many times it has stopped me from doing the wrong thing. Part of me wonders if he is just talking all of this stuff out, and that maybe after he has talked (and talked and talked) about the same subject over and over again it can finally be laid to rest. I have to remind myself that he is trying. The other day he was singing to the radio, and I remarked that I loved it when he sang, and that one of my favorite memories is of when we were dating and I would snuggle up next to him when he was driving (one hand on the wheel, and one arm around me), and he'd be singing along to the radio. I have said this MANY times before, but this time I took it a bit further and said, "I still love it when you sing. Sometimes you don't know it, but I stand and listen. You really have a nice voice, and I love hearing it." Just yesterday, out of the blue, he said, "you know what you said about my singing the other day? That was really cool to hear that. I never thought you felt that way."
Things like this make me have hope. I think there are just so many things that we never said to eachother. Maybe they just didn't seem important. I'm glad I realized the importance of it all.
I'm still feeling pretty down. I know I have to get over the ring issue. I just cannot understand the sense of living in the house and appearing married to anyone and everyone, yet removing that. It just seems so spiteful. And, to be honest, I am very fearful of the fact that there will come a day that he decides to put it back on, and it will just be "too little too late" for me. I wonder who he is to play with my emotions in that way. I guess if he was still sleeping on the couch and not touching me with a ten foot pole I would be o.k. with it. But as things stand now, it makes no sense.
Thanks for listening you guys. You know, when he was talking divorce and making plans to leave, it sucked, but in a way it was easier. At least I knew where I stood, and the future seemed pretty clear. Now, I have no idea what the future holds. It is maddening.
Betsey, I will try my hardest to untangle my panties! It would sure be a lot more comfortable, not to mention a lot more attractive! Ha! Do you see the deeper meaning there? I think I was just profound!
I see you wriggling around in those panties, so I'm going to let you keep working at them...
You know I know where you are because I'm sitting in the same damn boat (and the view sucks). However, I think you realize that the rings are just icing on the cake here?
Pamela, I know that all this stuff has been coursing through your brain. You DO have the advantage over your H: you talk about this stuff with girls (well, us) and you have a built in support network.
He's probably feeling JUST as insecure as you are. So sit back and keep your lip buttoned. Your time for chat will come, friend. From where I sit, I see that right now your actions are speaking for both of you. Right now you and your H are action oriented, and he's showing you plenty.
So put your patience hat on to remind you that you ARE winning this game. It's just taking a long time to play. Sort of like the game Risk, where lots of strategy and thought is involved--except you're not playing to win... you want both of you to win.
Give him a little time to digest things and see you in this new, more flattering light. He'll catch up sooner or later.
Until then, play nice and fair and come back here to b*tch.
Hugs.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Maybe someone shoulda asked mom!