I guess I can be here now 2

[figgeroni]

May...
it seems like you are approaching everything as a psychologist...and I know that you are but...I challenge you to come at it from a different angle...maybe that is what I mean

If i approached my children and their problems at school as a teacher instead of their mother, I would have some problems.

I need to come at them as their mom 1st, as a teacher and counselor 2nd...make sense?

I see you approaching everything with your husband as a counselor 1st and a wife 2nd. But, you are his wife firstly.

Instead of analysizing it thoroughly and processing it through as a counselor, can you process some things through your wife eyes first?

[figgeroni]

**I hate that I can't spell check and edit on here

[ESN]

May,

I'm going to put this to you straight. I hope this helps you.

Your H is not in his ADULT SPACE. He is behaving like he is 17. Do you see this?

If so, okay.

No meds, no therapy, no NOTHING is going to help him.

Do you see how meds might not help a 17 year old grow up and be a man?

See, my ex-BF did the SAME EXACT STUFF and behaved IN THE SAME WAYS. It's eerie. He was depressed too, traumatized from his past, too, on meds.

But nothing is going to make him grow up. Not me. Not anything. Not his family.

There might be areas in his life where he acts like he is grown up. But mostly he is 17. And he's 34.

SO.

Here's the sage wisdom my pediatrician gave me when he learned we split.

When people become parents, they either grow up or they don't. Some take longer than others. Women usually grow up more/faster than men. Most men grow up.

Some don't.

The ones who don't may never.

A friend advised that my ex-BF might grow up *for his daughter's sake* but not for me.

I still don't see that happening. And we're no longer together.

He does show up. He does take care of her.
But a 17 year old can do that too.

He doesn't see the big picture - her needs.
He is too self-involved, in his own world. In his own boyish space. He can't quite phathom the needs of others, nevermind meet them.

LISTEN.

You have a choice. You can GIVE UP and stay in this relationship and live your life and not expect anything from him. And eventually he may grow up on his own.

Or you can leave him, and that may be a catalytic event for him to grow up. It may not. I wouldn't invest in that outcome either way. If it works - great - if not - fine.

BUT YOU TAKE CARE OF YOU.

I'm all for 25's advice and marriage and staying together.

But this is the deal, May. You're going to stay married to a 17-year-old who - in some areas of his life - acts more mature - but not many.

If you want to stay committed and start to look at things from that perspective MEANING

when he decides his health is important, he will get help

NOT
You dragging him to therapy or medical testing.

You saw how he lived without you. That's a pretty clear picture of his internal state.

Do you want to sign up for more of it?

My ex-bf left, and there was no catalyst. For him - we weren't married, and I doubt he was even in love. There's no consequence, he's

NOT LOSING ANYTHING enough to motivate him to grow up.

You know from how you are that being a grown-up works. It puts you in the driver's seat of your life, let's you be in control, make decisions, etc. It WORKS FOR YOU.

But for some reason, it's not working for you H- he's scared, or dragging his feet, or making it mean something?

What? We don't know. Maybe that "life will be no fun anymore" "I'll always have to be miserable."

Who knows.

But if you can take in this information, I think it'll help you frame things in a way that's more of what you're dealing with.

Your H MAY just hit a wall and be FORCED to grow himself up.

That may mean you leave.

Just like when you did before YOU GOT HIS ATTENTION.

Did he DO ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY? (I can't recall - only you know).

Was it consistent and long-term enough for you to stay in this?

What this comes down to is that I don't see this changing anytime soon. He is going to keep moping and being 17.

You need to take care of you. Don't do anything to *get him to do anything (i.e., change, grow up, etc.)

Just quietly take care of you right now. If that means moving out, I say do it.

If that means staying married to someone who is behaving consistently like a 17-year-old (and I'm not saying this in a judgmental derogatory way - it's an actual psychological reality), then sign up and adjust your expectations.

Otherwise, you're going to make yourself insane sister.

[ESN]

P.S. May, I just read the rest of your post, as I was only responding to the first part.

Who would want to be around someone who is not behaving as an equal partner?

This is what made it so easy for me to get over ex-BF in the end. Truth was, I grieved and mourned the loss of my family life, and another sibling, and a house, and a family, and a relationship, and all that, but in the end, I DO NOT want to be around him and his behavior. Ick.

If he behaved like a 34-year-old, a man, stopped being a victim, etc. Sure. THAT would be hard to lose.

Unless your H is just able to "turn it off" or "turn it on" - meaning being an adult, I suspect it's really going to take SOMETHING to force him to grow up. I don't know what. But you might be a trigger (maybe it's a mom thing) for him rebelling.

[figgeroni]

ESN
I am sorry but I do not see him responding like a boy to everything

I see him responding that way to some things, yes

but May has already said that he is NOT that way with their daughter

May's anger toward a past event that keeps intruding on present situations makes her husband shrink back and respond in ways that are not acceptable...he pulls back in response to her behaviors

it is NOT the same as your situation

[ESN]

Fig, my ex, who behaves like a 17-year-old ALL THE TIME, is great with our daughter.

He's not married to his daughter, though.

We're talking about May's relationship to her husband.

And, like I said, there are areas, from what May's described, where he doesn't behave like this (work, it seems).

I never said it was my sitch. Did I?

And from what I can see, May is still fed up with her H. Is he satisfying to her now? Is she getting what she needs now regardless of the past?

[oldtimer]

"And the big problem I think it happening (and I apologize if I’m psychologizing this…) is that HE doesn’t even know who he is! He’s having a big, fat MLC at 29. I let him be who he was this summer and you know who that was? Someone who didn’t leave the house, ate nothing but chicken wings and ice cream, let the house fall to pieces and didn’t ever sleep.

He could barely function without me. And the kicker? He was so GD depressed, he barely remembers it (and if he does remember it, he’s too embarrassed by it to admit it)."


I take it you are a psychologist. Turn your gaze inward. Look at the extreme arrogance and contempt in your words.

[KenF]

dueinMay
i think you've become the WAS.

you're focusing on all his negatives, so of course you're angry, frustrated, etc.

what other result would you expect?

focusing on the positives is not to let him off the hook, its not to reward his actions, its to keep yourself from being miserable.

and ultimately its to save your marriage. because the path you're on will end in divorce.

[25yearsmlc]

Wow May,

some great observations & food for thought coming at you!

As Fig says, you are looking at him like a psychologist does, and that isn't helping you.

It might be helpful for you to use your training as a tool for YOUR behavior, but he's not your patient so maybe you can stop the diagnosing.

You already said that if he were to get help for his depression OR whatever ails him, that would mean something to you.

So other than him seeking help, the rest of these observations are not that helpful/relevant are they?

I can tell you one thing--as a L who examines/cross examines witnesses pretty effectively and who argues for a decision in her client's favor for a living,

I must force myself to lose that part of me when I'm communicating with h, especially if I want to connect with him at a deep & intimate level.

It's one thing to use my "logical arguments" to talk about which investment to make; but quite another to figure out how I can best listen to him talk to me about how HE feels.I have to drop the L hat. AND Keep my role as his wife, lover, life partner and bff as my priorities…I KNOW that's not always easy...

Ken's point about you becoming the WAS is probably tough to hear but dang...that might be b/c it's valid...?

Honey at times you are SO fair and objective, and then other times you are human like the rest of us, and tired, and sometimes you spiral down
and then You are not objective about your h's behavior

and you are not able to see ANY effort on his end. That's not really accurate though, is it?

Gabby's also suggested you take a look at him as a wife looks at her h, and I believe she & Figgeroni both mentioned that the anger you feel about the PAST (and to a lesser extent the present)

isn't supposed to be a "guide" for you...it's just your anger…for you to handle.

I wonder---seems You have admitted you have baggage from your past/parents that is UNrelated to your marriage OR your h -

...and even though you are a cognitively aware woman, AND a Therapist

your childhood stuff is STILL creeping in - (e.g., your feelings about your dad and your parent's marriage still haunts you-)

With that^^ in mind, 3 thoughts leap to my head.

1) YOUR marriage can haunt your d, OR be a source of comfort/stability in your d's life...

and;

2) you seem to be repeating a lot of what your mom did

(holding onto her perceived slights/hurts, with firmly gripped grudges, and

NOT forgiving & NOT letting go AND NOT forgetting...

only you LACK proof of an affair - AND your h isn't leaving you for OW--and yet you seem to want to assume the worst which I do not get...

b/c you are either replaying this OR you think assuming the worst "protects" you or...well---hey, You're the T , not me...you look at it and see what you think. Imagine your client told you her story and it was like yours…then what?

AND 3)

If you have your baggage, and if allow it as a partial explanation for your fears…

Wouldn't it be fairer to let your h have the same problem vis a vis the past family baggage of HIS, invading the present? -- b/c HIS family crap is real and it's a present day chronic problem.

Seems possible HIS STUFF is affecting him/the m, don't you think?

I know it Does not make it right or acceptable - but hey, don't let yourself off the hook b/c of the past and your lousy role models, but keep him on the hook for having similar baggage AND

No psych degree or half the tools you have!...

If You can use your past as a reason not to trust him (partially)

do you see how unfair it is for you not to let him use his past as....anything?

Just looking for you to apply the "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" deal...

you have so much going for you and I for one am still rooting for you. NOT saying that has to mean you stay m at all costs (no one ever suggested that)

but am saying from what I know of you

imo, you need to know YOU left no stone unturned trying to make this work. Don't forget the good times you two had.

Were they real? I mean = you said he was once a good partner. Do you still feel that way, prior to the pregnancy-

it's important to me to know whether that is true. IF you can tell, at this point.

Hang in there,

(((( ))))

PS

I'll be out of the loop a bit but will check in when I can. We all care May...

[Eryam]

I'm mulling everything over. I've read all the posts several times (well, with the exception of 25 seeing as she just posted today).

This time of year is hell for teachers, especially in SpEd. And I found out they're doing some major changes (a lot of which are still unknown, other than that they are big) to my unit. So time is super tight.

And planning D's birthday party, and Mother's Day, and thesis proposal, and keeping the M afloat.

I will say this: we've been much better this week.

I will write more when I can. It appears from all your posts that I need more self reflection anyway. I'm reading when I can, and going to all therapy sessions when possible.

I'll check back when I can. Thank you all for sticking with me.