round 2

[someguy1233]

Here's my BIG question...

She again brought up the idea of doing marriage counseling with the same therapist that is doing her independent counseling. I told her I had to think about it.

I'm not sure what to do! On one hand, she's actively ASKING me to go to MC with her with a therapist she trusts, unlike the previous MC. However, I feel like they have an established relationship and ideas...

Thoughts?

[labug]

Make an appt for yourself without W and talk about your concerns.

[figgeroni]

so what if they have an established relationship and ideas...

she wants to work on the marriage, it sounds like

her therapist is giving her ideas so she can stay in the relationship

not seeing where the problem is

[oldtimer]

My guess is that W wants to be able to share some problems she has with the M with you in the presence of a C with whom she feels safe. I don't think you need to be afraid of her C, just try not to be defensive.

BTW, I suggest you NOT brush this off:

"*She said things aren’t really so bad, but our main problem is our sex life. (My thoughts: We had a baby one year ago… I hear this is normal, but we need to figure out how to fix this….)
*She needs more physical closeness, even if sex isn’t the goal."

W is telling you that she is NOT satisfied with your sex life and with physical intimacy in general. It is VERY VERY hard for women to tell their husbands that they are not satisfied. Really. You have no idea how hard this was for W to say. It is almost certainly only a hint of broad and deep sexual frustration.

So LISTEN. Do NOT assume because she seems to enjoy sex with you that it is really working for her. Indeed, assume the opposite. Assume that for years she has been becoming increasingly sexually frustrated and bored because she is NOT being sexually satisfied and sees no way to get there.

This does NOT mean you are a bad lover. It is really a problem with how women are socialized as sexual beings which leads them to subordinate their own sexuality and act inauthentically in sexual relationships.

I'm just pleading with you, listen to your W closely on this. Don't push her. Just listen and take what she says 500% more seriously than what she says.

Buy some books, some new sex toys. Push her limits and thereby give her space to be more sexually authentic.

DO NOT LET YOUR MALE SEXUAL EGO GET IN THE WAY OF HEARING HER. LET GO OF THE ANGER AND HURT. BE HAPPY TO HAVE THIS INSIGHT AND GRATEFUL THAT YOU HAVE A CHANCE AT A MUCH BETTER SEX LIFE.

[someguy1233]

Thank you all for your insights and opinions. You're all amazing.

Fig- great points.
Oldtimer- thank you. Point taken! I definitely have work to do here. She as at least giving me the root of a major problem. It's now up to me to listen and try to correct it. Thanks

[someguy1233]

Journaling, Thursday 5/1

Yesterday evening she seemed a bit standoff-ish... she was on edge most of the evening as we went to meet a mortgage consultant to try and refinance our rental property. We had a quick dinner with her folks since they were watching our son. She was on edge. She again mentioned planning a vacation for us. I think we need to make this a priority! Looking back, I think she was crabby because of a stressful day at work and bad traffic. I need to stop thinking every bad mood is related to our situation.

We got home and put our son to bed, who is still under the weather. We looked at our schedules and decided to each take a half day off from work so one of us can care for him.

She then leaned in, grabbed my face softly and gave me a light kiss. She turned to walk away, looked back and said "I love you." I smiled and said, "I love you too." She smiled and walked away.

This is another ok day from HER. But I need to continue working on ME. I went out with a friend last night and had a great time. I didn't talk about R at all, which is unusual for me in a time of relationship trouble. It was relaxing and great to take my mind off of our situation.

[figgeroni]

you need to remember that you are not the center around which she orbits

it honest to goodness is not always about you or your situation so if she is standoffish

it might really be about something else entirely but take your cues from her and don't be manipulative about it

just let her have her bad days without taking it personally


how about plan some vacation stuff out and then ask her what she thinks about it

[someguy1233]

Journaling - Thursday 5/3


Last night she gave me a big hug and asked again, "Don't you even love me?" I responded, "Of course I do!"
She said that I don't say I love you, hold her hand, or give her hugs/kisses. I've been refraining from these things as I didn't want to trigger guilt, etc. My physical contact has been limited to reciprocating with whatever she initiates and not pushing for more. (ie: if she hugs, I hug. If she kisses, I kiss. etc.)

She said, "See! I'm still not crazy again." And then thanked me for being, "The best dad and a great husband."

About a week ago I told her that maybe we should reevaluate our roles/financial decisions. We both have great jobs, but she makes considerably more than me. However, she feels guilty leaving our son in daycare for 10 hours each day. She hates that we spend 2 hours each day sitting in traffic. Months ago she made frequent comments about wishing she could be a stay at home mom and felt imprisoned by the choices we made prior to the birth of our son. About a week ago I told her that if she was interested we could review our finances and see if we could afford to have her stay home. Yesterday she drafted a rough outline of our finances in an attempt to make this a reality. She stated, "when we have another kid, I don't want to return to work after he/she's born. I couldn't handle the guilt." I'd also prefer to not have strangers (daycare) raising our children.

She held my close while falling asleep last night.

Tonight I'm going to GAL and go out for a bit.

[someguy1233]

Journaling, Friday 5/4

Today W mentioned that she feels her close friend may might not have gotten a divorce if her friend could have let go of her OM. She said people can think clearer if they don't have feelings for someone else. She said, "At some point people HAVE to stop looking. There will always be people that look appear better than the person you're with, but they probably aren't." We talked about how a potential new relationship is always more exciting than what you've had for years. Interesting conversation... we laughed, joked, and had a good time.

She also mentioned that she doesn't feel like part of "the group" at work. They don't invite her to lunch, etc. This is the first I've ever heard of this. For the last many months she always said how much she loved her work and the people she worked with. Interesting.

Tonight she went out with some old friends from highschool. She gave me a nice hug and a kiss and said ILY before leaving. In that moment I feel loved. Otherwise I generally feel frightened that she'll change her mind or that she's still very uncertain. I constantly have to remind myself not to reach for validation every 2 minutes... I continue to struggle between keeping distant (not initiating ILY, physical touch etc), and one of her primary love languages: physical touch.