Betsey, Hi, email or bb is fine with me. The bb seems faster, but I find it a whole lot easier to write on email, the screen is bigger. I could really use some help here.....the frustration I feel is getting the better of me and tears seem to be just below the surface. "Quiets" observation that T is baiting me seems to dead on. I had a particularly tough morning and the only thing good that came from it was intense thinking about what the hell is going on and what he is doing to me! (try as I might to take responsibility for my reactions, by the time I figure out what's going on, the bombs have dropped, the village is burned and the army has marched on to the next battlefield!)
I know I keep forgetting to "remember" the crazy making gene is predominant in him. I NEVER see it coming!!
I would almost have to be hyper vigilant and make myself crazy to be listening to each statement for the underlying anger.
I know I keep going over these examples of his behavior as if with a microscope, looking for the answer, well I guess that's because I am hoping it will occasionally pay off.
Yesterday it did, or rather today after I came home I got some divine intervention and it led me to some info on passive aggressiveness. If you would indulge me one more example this one came with a BIG lesson.
Yesterday morning: I had not slept the night before (the Bigfoot people upstairs). It was one of those sleeps where you wake up and just get back to sleep and then get woken up again. This went on ALL night!!! It would have been better to have just stayed awake! I have done than many times and never have a huge problem with it. Probably the mother gene in me!
Anyways, I "got up" about 8 am,( usual time for me) and T was as usual already up (6) and typing out in the living room....Aside from being sleepy I was perfectly okay.....we had even ML when we couldn't sleep. Without saying much, I made us breakfast, I made oatmeal and read a bit of the paper, then without saying anything I just went and took a shower and started dressing for work. Tim jumped up and said he's be ready in 15... me: okay.9 it is. him: ready to go in 15. him ( at the door putting on his rings and stuff) "you seem kinda quiet this morning." me: yeah,guess I am, I'm tired, I didn't sleep well, those people upstairs kept me up all night. him: me too.....they were pounding all morning! him: okay why don't you go down and start the car, I'm right behind you. me: okay (out the door I go..slowly walking down the stairs IN HEELS carrying a HEAVY bag.) me: get to car, put bag in back seat, my jacket on hook when.....Tim comes out the outside door. him: "we have to drop off rent check and mail.......pull up here and back up here." me: "hmmmm?? where? wait what do you want me...." him: jumps out of car, comes around, yells through window:"Do you think you could at least mail these!!" and tosses the mail at me through the window. me: "Of course I can", rolling down window, I pull car into slot by rental office. him: gets in car, slams door, grabs mail out of my hand, "Do you think you can mange this!!" me: "Of course I can I am not a moron. I am a fully functioning adult, and quite capable. him: "so what is it!!? what's the problem now!!?? C'mon we might as well get it over with!!" him: "what is all this reluctance!!!!, at the door, at the stairs, not starting the car...." me: "I am not reluctant. I don't appreciate your throwing the mail at me. I was only trying to understand where you wanted me to park. I am quite capable of driving and making a decision about where to go for myself."
At about this point he started yelling how he didn't have a lot of time left in his life and doesn't want to waste it on me. He's tired of having to worry about how Trish feels and having to stop "deal'" with it all the time. How it drags him down and maybe I (Trish) just shouldn't be here..... He is going to insist on third party intervention (counseling) for me and he will even pay for it ( for a few months) then you are on your own!
me: "I completely agree. I already have someone who lives in a nearby community and I will set it up immediately." Quiet for about 1 minute. Starts in on how he doesn't even have an address for where I work!, or a phone number!. I hand him a paper with this info on it.(I had written up that morning.) me: "What I AM upset about, is the way you threw the mail and were yelling at me. " him: "I do NOT believe it, you are always putting it on ME".
I again say nothing ELSE is wrong. "That" is it. I am upset with him throwing the mail." again he refuses, says, it must be that time of the month?????
me: why can't it be what it is? I am upset with how you reacted to me in the parking lot." him:" Look in the mirror and keep telling yourself that! Better yet get third party help!!" me: "I feel so frustrated." him: "Frustrated? good, that's good." me: "I am frustrated that you refuse to listen to me when I tell you what my true feelings are. You want it to be something else! and it's not. Maybe you're just going to have to accept that THAT is what I am really upset about." him: "Don't tell me what I have to accept." me: " When you do....... him: "Oh, there you go again putting it all back on me!!!" me: "When you behave....." him: yelling louder! " I want to get away from you so badly!! can you tell!!??" me: calmly: "yes, I can tell that, well we're here and you will be away from me all day." him: "I hope this doesn't affect me personally at work!! (as we pull up) me: "yeah, me too." him: "Don't bother picking me up, I'll find a another way home". Slams the car door with his foot and stomps off (this with a hurt back??).
Now it took me the better part of the morning to sort this out, but I knew almost immediately this is not about me, this is going on inside of him. My problem is I never see it coming, and I am sure now I never will.
I knew he had no "other way" home and he would probably call me at the most inopportune minute, so I took the initiative. I left him a message saying if he still wanted me to pick him up I was fine with that or if he had another way home, that's great too. I will be here for the next hour, then I was leaving.( 2 pm.) He didn't call. So I called his office an hour later ( He can't see who is calling so he would answer.) Said he didn't get my message, he did...... He checks messages constantly!! ( passive aggressive). Come, come pick him up, oh, and by the way pick up his prescription on the way over......click.
I got the script (35 minutes!! in line) and then called him and said I would be there in 2 minutes. He said he's be right down.
He came down and acted all calm and said he wanted to go check out the pool???!!!!! on campus (we did) and then to get an oil change (we did) and then he suggested we eat out. How did I feel about that?? Yes, I said, I was very tired and that would be great.....after going into the restaurant!!, he decided he didn't want to eat there, how about we go home and have pizza. Fine with me. Off we go. Oh yeah, and he wants to check on the car rental place for "His" trip. To see shark lady in Pittsburgh on the 14/15/16th.Then changes his mind, "Oh,never mind, I'll call the rental place from home."( Trying and succeeding in making me feel left out).
Now the weird thing is he is all normal and "acting" it all evening. But the anger is just below the surface. He made several behind the back comments and when I called him on them and said they were passive aggressive and hurt, he started to get all angry again. Yelled at me and then told me to just shut up. Then later: Gets into bed kisses me goodnight (I was fake sleeping). I wake up and he holds my hand.?? Another big kiss goodnight. Then he "spoons" me in the morning. He knows I particularly love this. Well, I drive him to work this morning.He kisses me goodbye and I CAN"T WAIT TO BE AWAY FROM HIM!!!!!
I come home, get on Internet and find sights about passive aggressiveness.
BINGO. BOY OH BOY what a mother lode of info. Describes him to a tea.
The thing is HE was mad OR MORE LIKELY feeling guilty and every time I am "quiet" he thinks I am upset about something.( The affairs) This makes him mad because now he thinks he has to "deal" with it and he DOES not want to "deal" with it. The thing that makes him feel guilty and makes me sad. So when his question of," why are you so quiet?" gets an answer that he doesn't believe, because he thinks I am being quiet because I am hurt about the affairs.......he then thinks hmmmm......she's hesitating on the stairs, and with the car and with the mail and that makes him madder!! Then when I tell him what IS making me mad, of course he still doesn't believe it because he STILL feels guilty! Then when he has nowhere to run and nowhere to hide, he starts looking for OTHER reasons to blame so we don't have to deal with the feelings ( that time of the month, you need third party help....etc.) and when THAT!!! doesn't work.......Then he has to run away!!
Trouble is we now live together. No more retreating to the condo. Nowhere to go except to work! So he TELLS me he wants to get away....and then he literally gets away at work.
Then when I pick him up, he acts all happy, like HE had a great day...the "problem" was all mine...not his...... But there is still that tension because now he is being a liar...about himself and..he is not expressing his feelings and he doesn't want to hear mine!
Oh, Trish, at least in my house, it was the non crazymaker who was passive aggressive. I am really struggling with all of this, as I KNOW you are.
For all my crazymaking, I'm aggressive--nothing passive about me whatsoever. So this is a dynamic I know very little about in the context with crazymaking.
There are also books on this subject. I'm afraid that the one I read (along with my psych classes in college) did nothing more than identify the behaviors--not how to treat them or how to live around them.
Let's retreat to what worked when he didn't seem so angry. Any ideas?
I'm just floored about the throwing mail thing. I have to say, I agree that it sure looks like it came out of nowhere.
Good that you want to get into individual C. But with one big caveat: being on your own will undoubtedly be your decision, and not his (if I'm reading this remark the way he intended).
If anything, I hope this person can give you some ideas on how to work with these dynamics. Or to help you figure out if this is something you ultimately want to do.
I'll tell you here and now: much of my own source of anger was in dealing with Mr. W's passive aggressiveness. He would often say to me, "Bets, if you feel there is something wrong, then it's only with you. You better figure out why, because I'm fine."
The onus was always on me to find out what MY problems were. I guess I'm seeing that sentiment here with T.
Okay, so back to basics: what worked in the past to quell this sort of behavior?
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Hi, Well, I think the crazymaking may just come in different doses. His is particularly stong. His passive aggressiveness IS the crazymaking.
You may have done some crazymaking (like we all do), but as you said, their was nothing covert (passive)about it for you. When you were mad, you didn't need to find "under the radar" ways to express it, you just came out with it.
Tim's problem is he can't deal with his OWN feelings. When he feels ANYTHING......he does not feel safe letting it out, so it comes out in inappropriate or unexpected ways. This creates several scenarios. He can ALWAYS avoid his own feelings. He can project those onto someone else and make them deal with it. He confuses the issues so that by the time you have figured it out, he is safely out of the picture. You end up feeling sad and defeated, or at least confused. And spend an inordinate amount of time figuring out what went wrong!
"WHAT WORKED WHEN HE DIDN'T SEEM SO ANGRY?"
I think there in lies the trap.
HE IS ALWAYS ANGRY.
IT'S JUST THAT HE KEEPS IT HIDDEN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!
The trap is......that one would think that at any given moment he is NOT ANGRY. He is always angry.......about something. Maybe nothing to do with me, or the situation at the moment, but something, somewhere is causing him to feel pain.
If you dare to think ((((for even a moment)))) that he is okay....YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. AND he will use whatever is bothering him at that moment to goad you into a reaction, so that he can feel some sense of control.
IE: If SHE is out of control then it's not ME! I'm not the one with the problem, "They" are.
The "mail thing" didn't come out of the blue.
It was a build-up of uncertainty he started feeling.
1. She's quiet.(first alarm!fear,feelings he can't deal) 2. She's hesitating at the stairs.( that confirms it!) 3. She's not in the car yet??!! 4. We HAVE to get this dropped off and SHE"S UPSET!!(pressure) 5. Now she can't even park the car she is so uncertain! (((((((((((((((((((((((((BOOM)))))))))))))))))))))))))) Can't YOU EVEN MAIL THESE LETTERS WITHOUT UNCERTAINTY!!!!!!
I wish I could go and see what times he wasn't so angry. I will have to really examine this, to see if I can even think of any. That's why I never see it coming, because it rarely has to do with the situation at hand. It's almost always about SOMETHING ELSE.
I think T's comment that "I will pay for a few months and then you are on your own", meant that I(Trish) WOULD HAVE TO PAY for the therapy? NOT the other way to take that statement which was, "After a few months, YOU ARE OUTTA HERE AND I WANT NOTHING MORE TO DO WITH YOU."
His kissing and touching and level communication after the blowup tells me that.
Betsey, I am dying to know what you would tell K after he would say something like: It's not my problem, it's yours so you better figure out why, because I'm fine." ????????
He, Betsey – I have a tiny little crazymaker inside of me myself, and sometimes when I’m NOT feeling quiet, pretending that I am helps. Acting as if as the ultimate self-fulfilling prophesy. Hence the name. Now that I really am quiet (calm), I’ll go back to being Pen.
Cycler (Trish) …. I think you have your husband down pat. After almost 30 years, you’re a veteran at being married to him. This is particularly telling:
Quote: When he feels ANYTHING......he does not feel safe letting it out, so it comes out in inappropriate or unexpected ways.
This creates several scenarios.
He can ALWAYS avoid his own feelings.
He can project those onto someone else and make them deal with it.[..]
If SHE is out of control then it's not ME!
I'm not the one with the problem, "They" are.
That is exactly what I meant with “baiting”. He projects his insecurities onto you. Let’s face it, when the going got tough (for example, when you both lost your jobs at the same time) HE is the one that bailed and dumped all the responsibility onto you, pretending “you” were too dependent on him. In reality, he himself couldn’t deal with it. Of course, being intelligent, he knows on some level that he’s acting in a less-than-stellar way, feels even more inadequate, and tries to make that your fault, too.
It seems we can find this pattern everywhere we look. Living in his own apartment, thus forcing the day-to-day family decisions onto you, but still resenting you for “leaving him out of things”. The “affairs” and the “flirtations” that he tries to parade infront of you to get a reaction. All of this speaks of a fundamentally immature and v v insecure man. But the point is – what to do?
What worked in the past, as Betsey has already asked? What happens if you completely ignore all of his little dramas, and just smile, humm, and do your own thing? Does it infuriate him even more?
How can you keep up your own self-confidence and avoid being infected by his projections?
How would you ideally like your marriage to progress in, say, the next two months? What could you do to make it happen?
I'm coming out of hiding only for you today! My pile of invoicing is absolutely overwhelming, and I'm off Monday and Tuesday. Things here are out of hand. But I'll try to check back on and off this weekend.
Okay, I'm relieved to hear your clarification on that "you're on your own" statement. Because I was really afraid that was another passive aggressive statement.
I think Pen's got a really good and fresh perspective with you, so I'm hoping she can jockey back and forth with you over the next couple days. I like her questions a whole lot.
That being said, you asked me what I said in return when Mr. Wonderful suggested it was only me who was XXXXX (fill in the blank) and said this was my problem and to fix it.
Quite frankly, Trish, it used to gall me to no end. The only consolation I have ever received from this accusation is that when he left, he told me I had been right all along and that he had felt angry most of our marriage. Yes, this was my fault at the time.
In the early days, I would just give him a blank look and dismiss his thoughts. But I will tell you that since I was in my early 20s (even before then, but by this time, I was on my own), every few years I would head into individual counseling for awhile. Little issues kept surfacing that got so bad I had to deal with them. Glad I didn't know how many bigger issues were waiting for me to deal with then.
Anyway, when our real problems became glaringly apparent to me, it was early 1999. When he made his patent remark about me being the one who was miserable and making us miserable, this is when I became visibly angry all the time.
By the time I started my EA, I also realized during this time that another person wasn't making me any happier. No, let me correct this: I actually realized that this was making me even more unhappy. THAT's when I put myself into a very heavy courseload of individual counseling and really started getting into the nitty gritty of things.
About half way into it, Mr. W. got his DUI, and then my anger became pervasive and encompassing.
I guess what I'm saying the long way is that I began to realize that he was actively contributing to my anger and misery, even though I was making progress on finding out why I chose to react the way I did to things. The more he avoided me and the issues, the angrier I became.
And although I was the only one expressing my anger, the same was very true for him, Trish. He would just deny it existed, pour himself a gin & tonic and then proceed to mentally check out on me. Your H isn't doing this, but other things...
And the more angry he became, the more resentful he became and the more passive aggressive he became. We had quite a few times where he would agree to go to a theatrical production with me and "forget" to call a babysitter--hence, losing $200 tickets--or I would have a scheduled event to attend and he would promise to come home from work but would end up going drinking with his friends instead. Five hours later and no phone call or returning my pages, he'd walk through the door a bit intoxicated...
Trish, I can't say anything like this exists for you.
But one thing is really glaring me in the eyes right now. When he goads you into a reaction, how do you typically respond? Is there a pattern, depending on what sort of reaction he is goading from you?
And what would happen if you did a 180? What would happen if you just left? Or if you can think of some other non combative response that would diffuse this crappy dynamic?
I'm also going to make a plug for the CD series that I listened to awhile back... Transcending our Anger by Fr. Tom Allender (he has a website... I listed it in my previous thread). $35 for 4 hours of therapy is a great bargain.
And I think you would be very comforted by the fact that Fr. Tom addresses passive aggressiveness in graphic detail. Now, if T happened to listen to them with you at some point (the 4th one is the really effective one), it would be a good thing. I would also highly recommend not telling him any agenda--a passive aggressive person doesn't deal well with suggestions like this.
Okay, this is it for now. Hope you're feeling a bit better.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
You two gave me great stuff to think about! In fact I thought about it all weekend, thus the delay in my response.
Thanks for coming out of hibernation just for me Betsey, I feel very fortunate to have you both with me!
I guess I was also taken aback some by what I learned about the passive/aggressive behavior T exhibits. It shed a great deal of light on our interactions, and put a new hue on your questions.
Several things occured over the weekend, that were terrific examples of this dynamic.
Friday afternoon I picked up T about 3PM, early enough to still have some energy left. He suggested we take in the Basketball game on campus tonight. I was thrilled. A chance to spend some time enjoying something together. We went home, changed our clothes and got some dinner. By 6 he was no longer interested in going.
I shrugged it off (wish I had a better response to this, as he sees it too easy to disappoint me.)
We stayed home, he typed and I did dinner and dishes. Ugh...boring...so I said I was heading for the gym....I didn't instead I went to the parking lot and called S24 and had a nice convo.
Saturday, he was parked in the lazy boy for 12 hours, not an exaggeration, he was typing on the book.
Good thing was he shared some aggitation at some of the editors, project directors, and tech editors who are all trying to get a piece of this pie, and making alot of demands on his time and energy by not having a clear hierarchy of command thus causing confusion about chapters and tables of content etc. etc. Anyways, he was having trouble with this one particular editor, and he decided to write an email to the senior editor about it.
After he finished he asked me, "To come take a look at this". ( I was pleased to do so and told him so).
I noticed several places where his communication was severely paassive/aggressive and used this opportunity to tell him my thiking about it. He completely agrees and changed his email. Afte two such emails and several such opportunities, I was even able to use the phrase "passive/aggressive"(call it what it is) with him. At one point I was able to show him where he emailed "greg" talking about how mad he was with "nicole"....I pointed this out to him, and said I thought she was a grown up and quite able to understand his being angry with her and he should tell "nicole" how she felt about it...not "greg"!!
I also validated his anger by telling him, how I understood his frustartion with everyone coming at him from different directions, and he needs to extracate himself from the role of "managing" these individuals, or they would take up all his time and energy. He was just normal for feeling so put upon".
I think it opened a window for him.
He finally asked me, " If I thought he was passive aggressive?"
"My dear, I said, bending over to kiss him.......it is your Forte." I then smiled a little smile, and walked into the kitchen.
"I don't WANT to be passive/aggressive....." he said quietly.
Planting seeds I think it's called.
Anyways, we did nothing the rest of the day...except Laural D22, called and I talked with her for awhile, while he kept working on the book and I went shopping and ran errands after that.
Sunday, we had planned on going to church, he suddenly didn't want to do that either. "You go for both of us".
I quickly got ready and left, but not before telling him how much I had enjoyed last week when we DID go to chuch together and out to breakfast together too. He seemed surprised when I said this and started to say:" Maybe you shouldn't go...you know you're gonna be late......." I said it was good for me to go and I kissed him goodbye.
I had read in the saturday paper about a Choral performance by the University Choir to be held Sunday night at 7:30 and had asked him if he had any intrest, "Yeah, but ask me on Sunday." he had said,No committment.
Well Sunday night at 6 he suddenly was exhausted and wanted to go to bed! I stayed out in the livingroom so not to disturb him and watched TV and read. By 9 he gave up and came out (to check on me) and got on his email!!??????????????????
I think he was goading me, because he kept waiting for my reaction and watching me out of the corner of his eyes, with a little smile on his face. Like whatever he was reading was very nice.
Finally, after he got himself a snack, he says: "Okay, now I'm really going to bed......wanna come?" I joined him and we watched the Steelers, til I realized he had taken a sleeping pill.
He jerks and twitches and acts very irratic when he takes them and he grabs things and talks in his sleep and sometimes almost falls out of bed! Frankly, it bothers me. But, I just kept cuddling with him, and soothing him and telling him to go to sleep until he finally nodded off.
After a few hours, it danwed on me I went and checked his email. Sorry guys, but at this point I don't care!!!! I consider this self preservation. And boy did I check it. Absolutely nothing there!!! I knew he had been trying to get my goat!!
Thank goodness for those pills though
I went back to bed and he woke up after a few more hours and we talked briefly before both of us falling back asleep.
Now the real test was this morning....
1. We wake up late,( 7:30 instead of 5:30) DUH!!!!!!!!!! This is what happens when you take a sleeping pill.
His writing time is gone.(frustrated) I make breakfast, I am in the middle of eating.....
2. He says we need to leave by 9:15.!!????? So as to not make me (trish)late......(Now he is in a "rush" to "help" me. by getting ready in such a hurry...even breaks a sweat to show how inconvenienced he is!! trying to put on his clothes with no help and a bad back!!) He can now blame ME for his foul mood.
I get ready in 5 minutes.... 3.He takes longer.
I am sooo ready I have time to pick out HIS tie! (He usually asks me, but this morning he didn't )
3. him: "go down and start the car, I'll be right down". ( He has a TON of stuff to carry down, but doesn't want my help!?? What, so he can slip and fall and REALLY Blame me for his rush!!)
4. I go down (slowly as usual, I am in heels and a skirt all ladies know what I mean here!) He hates this, he interprets this as hesitation. (What does he want me to run!!??)
Then we play: REDLIGHT GREEN LIGHT 5. Red light/Green light ( I am driving and the lights are green for as far as you can see! 4 lane highway.)
him: "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!RED LIGHT!!!!!!!!! okay it's two lights away." me: quietly: "green light." him: "blah blah blah.. yadyada.........FLOOR IT!!!!!!!!" me: ??????me seeing the yellow, begin to slow down. Don't want to be accused of "mistreating his car" and knowing the light will be red in a second I slow down........ him: "FLOOR IT!!!!!!!!" me: startled response I floor it and of course the light turns red!!! Slam on brakes!!
him: "If you wouldn't have hesitated we would of made it!!" (yeah, and we be two road patties in the middle of the intersection!) me:
Okay so I think you get the picture....he's heading for a blow up.
him: you should have floored it!... me: why did I ever listen to YOU! (I just could not resist blaming him!!arrgh)
me: Sorry, you're right, I was paying attention to you instead of traffic and was using my judgement about the light.....I could have floored it and we might have made it but.........when I hesitated it caused us as delay.
me: Is that all you're angry about? him: You don't get it do you!! me: It's okay that you're angry,(trying to validate) Is there anything else? (giving him the opportunity to really express what else there might be on his mind.)
He goes into a description of an interaction he had with a co-worker who after pointing out her mistake,( I'm thinking this is the something else) She fails to see the problem and keeps seeing it only her way. T says he finally just "adjusts" to her and lying, tells her it's okay, when he is NOT okay with their solution."
him: The thing is I shouldn't have to "adjust" to my wife of 28 years" me: "I agree." me: "I do get it...."
(Was this the case where he just wanted to be mad at this one and only thing, and he thinks that I think, he's really mad about something else?? not my behavior?)
Well when this interaction about the car failed to get my goat....he goes on with:
him: okay, so now we are behind the garbage truck! Do you think we would have been here if you hadn't hesitated back there and we had got the light?" me: well, the truck was here on this same street well before us, we would just be four cars closer!
Then he moves in for the kill:
him: Are you ever gonna tell me what D22 called about? I've been waiting 4 days to hear. (passive/aggressive exaggeration, She called sat. afternoon it is now monday am.) me: I've been dying to tell you all about it. It's only been 2 days, but I was waiting for a good time to talk and you were either writing or sleeping."
him: "You mean to tell me you want me to believe you were trying to be considerate of me?" me: well, yes I was........ him: so am I ever gonna hear it.... me: blah blah about D22.
I dropped him off. He kissed me goodbye, but didn't want my help up to his offfice.
I said I would call on my way back into town to pick him up. He said nothing. But I knew it was okay, because he didn't just walk away, he walked around the car to my side and smiled a slight smile and mouthed the words see you later".
Not exactly an enthusiastic "have a good day" but pretty good for not having gotten into a major row!!
I think I get middle of the roads marks for seeing some of this. But I needed some time to figure out the thing about "adjusting for his wife of 28 years".????????
Does he just want me to see that "that" was what he was upset about, and nothing more and he thought I was reading more into it or is he just saying this adjusting thing to make me feel guilty or to dump something on me??? Not sure.
Seeing the passive aggressiveness of his behavior makes me feel much lighter and more certain.
Somethings I learned about how to handle a p/a.
1. The need to set boundaries. (I stink at this). 2. Confront obvious lies.(I am pretty good at this) 3. Unravel ambiguities. (??????) 4. Be specific about what bothers you. (I think I am) 5. Tone is important. Do not be vindictive or authoritarian. (no problem here) 6. Do not use ultimatums you cannot enforce.(never) 7. Do not force or tell them what to do!(very important!) 8. Tell them they have options from which to choose. 9. Give them power of choice. 10. Convince the p/a it is okay to be angry. 11. Do not humor them out of their anger, let them feel it. 12. Accept no excuses. Confront innappropriate behavior directly and label it what it is. If someone's behavior is inappropriate the rationale they offer is irrelevant.( just so so at this)
This last one is what I find hardest to do: 13.Take action quickly. Aggressive personalities lack internal brakes( boy does he ever) If you are going to successfully engage them, get a word in edgewise, make an impact, then you need to act at the first sign that they are on the march. be ready to immediately confront and respond to one of their tactics. Move quickly to remove yourself from the "one-down" posistion and establish a balance of power.
I am just a beginner at this, so I'll quit right here.....for now.
Extra Big Hugs to my friends for hanging in there with me while I ramble!!!!!!!!
What a great list of things you've learned. I'm going to add one more to the fray, and it's an expansion of #9--giving them the freedom of choice.
In the early days I found it to be very helpful when I said to Mr. W., "I'm going to ask you a question, and please understand that you have every right to say no." He would give me permission to ask, and more often than not, he would tell me no.
As you can see, a P/A person will tend to say yes to head off a conflict that they perceive to be inevitable. And then not do it, because that's what they wanted to do in the first place.
Then I literally had to force myself not to become angry with him for not "choosing" to do what I wanted him to do.
It took a really long time for him to feel comfortable saying no to me without having to tell him it was okay to do so. Then it took a little longer for him to not feel the need to explain why he said no. Then awhile later, he would say yes because he realized that his resentments had eased up and I was allowing him to make choices for himself without assuming the role of mommy to him.
Being direct is extremely helpful.
I find myself still wording questions in a very indirect way, and if I was on the other end, would find this very annoying. I caught myself tonight, when Mr. W. returned a call to me.
I asked him if he wanted to skip taking D7 to a school fun night tomorrow night, and then made a segue into convincing him that it would be good for me to take her overnight so D10 and I could have more time to do her shopping.
Trish, I actually realized that I was reverting to my old behaviors in trying to convince him to do my bidding. I stopped mid sentence and said, "K, I just realized that I am being indirect and obnoxious. What I'm really trying to say is that I'm pressed for time to shop with D10 tomorrow night and would you mind keeping D7 overnight?"
His P/A responses have disappeared. He replied, "Bets, that is really hard on her because I have to wake her up at 6 am to bring her back to the house. I understand why you need more time. How about I stay at the house and watch her there until you get home? Is 9:00 acceptable?"
Trish, it's a hard dynamic to beat. And often it's how we (the non P/A person) address the P/A person. I find that the more direct and honest I am in my asking, the more honest and candid he is with his answer. And more often than not, he's happy to help me out.
Just my 2 cents worth. I think you're getting through this mess just fine.
Keep it coming!
Hugs!
Bets
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Betsey 
