Thanks for the good wishes. I do think airing things out here first is best. I didn't send the email, but boy did I want to! I feel sooooooo taken for granted. Almost invisible, like he doesn't have any clue how much it hurts when he calls her and laughs or jokes and then pretends to her like I don't even exist!!!
Last night: I finally flew out of the apartment with some lame-o excuse, said I'd be back in twenty...which I was. I cried my heart out. Then came back. Couldn't look him in the face,I wasn't sure I wanted him to know I had been crying. So I took a shower and got on the computer. He took this as ignoring him (which it was)... He filled the coffee maker (usually my job) so this meant he was a bit peeved. Then he came by the computer room and said: "Are you coming?" (meaning to bed). "yep in a minute!" I replied and then I stayed at the computer for about 20 more minutes.(Passive aggressive, I know) He was sleeping when I finally came to bed. I didn't make a move to kiss him, but I didn't pull away either. He woke up and I fained sleeping, he kissed my arm. Which I thought was nice.
This morning: I got up after him (usual)and I just stayed in the bedroom(Not usual) He came in and said he wanted to leave in 15 minutes. He needed to get in for a conference call. Okay, I'm ready, I said. I got him a bagel and some juice while he was dressing (wasn't too sure I should do this). Then as we were leaving he motioned I forgot my wedding ring (which I had) and I ran back to get it. He seemed glad I had gotten together some food for him. Then I went down and started the car. He came down and got in and said:" And all this over a call with Lynn M."( OW/his Attorney are one in the same) me: "What" "I don't know what you mean." me: "I'm tired, but...." him: " You're moping around like a little girl who got her heart broke".
I watched traffic. him: "well, maybe you're just tired." Then I changed the subject and he talked about his day for a bit.... Then he told me how he hadn't slept well last night, was feeling sick, had a temp, maybe it's the flu.... Frankly I didn't respond much,not nice but I wasn't feeling very well at the moment.
Then he goes into this thing about how he is down $50., so far, in this venture to get D22 here for Thanks. only to have her ignore our calls.....and how this is the last time her is going to put himself out there, she obviously didn't have a model (meaning me) of how to assert herself, she once again dumped the repsonsibility on us for the planning. Either she isn't confident enough (again my model he says) She didn't really want to come and she is just playing with us or she doesn't know how to do this (again a poor model like you).
Then he says how he is feeling taken for granted again. Gets out of the car, no kiss goodbye. I rolled down the window and asked him "Are you gonna call me about what time you want me to pick you up?".... and he said it will be around 5 and kept walking.
All in all pretty discouraging.
If I could have looked at his calling her as though it were a good thing; He called in front of me. He complained after how she takes him for granted and he has to do all this work for himself.... I laughed at him and said, "oh talking to her wasn't that awful, you seemed to be enjoying it."
I took it like bullshit. He wants it both ways, he wants me to feel sorry for him that he has to "deal with her", and he wants to keep her on the hook on the side, so he acts like I don't exist to her!
It's all perception isn't it!
Don't know what I'd do if I couldnt' come here and vent!!!!
Hi there, Just finished looking in on some posts and it looks like a lot of long-timers are wading back in and the bb is perking up a little. Hope everybody managed to get through Turkey day.....without too much grief.
Some journaling:
Thursday was quiet. We had no kids for T day. First time in 28 years!! So we had made some plans: Go to church at 10:30 am and then to the local community group to serve free turkey dinner. If this failed we would try the best restaurant in town with a water view and dine out. I thought we should have back up.
Thursday dawned and I was feeling sleepy, slept in a bit and then we ML!!
But in the midst H says his back is now hurting again and he can't get up!!! Off he goes to Lazy boy and heating pad
So much for church......and so I said: how about we see how you feel a little later and then we can go serve or not.Okay.
By 1:30 he was still ensconced in the lazy boy and no sign of communicating at all! Not one word all morning. So I annouced I was going on the computer if he felt like doing anything just let me know.
Him: Oh, well I was just thinking I'd shower up and we could go eat dinner in about an hour. me: Great I'll be ready.
Finally at 2:30 we leave and go to local restaurant. He sits quietly and stares out the window!
I try and converse( felt very awkward) we do okay......dinner was just Okay...
Then when we leave, someone has pulled in so close to our car, that it is literally 1 1/2 inches apart!!! H can't even get in to drive, as this would require climbing in the passenger side and scooting over (which he can't do because of his back). After going back into the restaurant to see if we can find the owner( no luck), I offer to drive and he will direct( what a loaded situation that is).
A mexican immigrant( no I am not kidding) comes up to my husband and sticks his face into the space above H shoulder. H freaks out and starts screaming at the poor guy(who probably barely speaks english) and embarrases us both with his profanity.
I remain completely calm.....move the car out and H takes the wheel. SCREECHING out of the parking lot I calmly ask him " not to take it out on OUR car, don't let's punish ourselves!! Please don't take it out on Our car it will not affect "them" if our car gets hurt."
He starts to calm down. I asked "if the guy sorta scared him coming up on him like that? Afterall, I said, he might have wanted to rob you!!?" He nods yes. Then says, actually, yes the thought had occurred to him." We procede to go look at a used car, and then home... Friday....we go swimming and eat pizza out. H like new place says their pizza is the best we've found so far( new home).This is good.
Sunday we go to church together, and then out to breakfast together....(awful food) . H says he will probably get sick from it, this before we are even home). me: Well, thanks for buying, I guess we have to try different places to know which ones are good and which ones aren't.
We watch movie together: Bridget Jone's Diary. In the middle of the movie there is a song by Van Morrison: "someone like you". This is song he emailed OW and told her how much he missed her and how this song was their song in spring of "02" email. H chirps in with: "Who sings that? Do you know that song? It's a great song!"
This after being ignored for four days. I felt like he was throwing it in my face. I stand up get my keys and make for the door. H stops me with:" what!!? what is it!!?" I said: "You mean to tell me you want me to believe you don't remember this song?!" The song you know every word to? The song you emailed back and forth and said was "Your" Song?"
him: no I don't remember.and I'm not gonna take this much longer.....everytime there is a song on the radio, or a movie on tv...you have a reaction!. me: well, it hurts. I'm not saying I'm raving mad, it just hurts me and you're gonna have to let me have my feelings and not expect me to pretend I don't."
I went into the other room and after a few minutes I returned and sat and watched the movie.( Lots of tension in the room) made dinner, went to bed.
Fast forward: last night: We go to bed....we are watching an old movie on TV and want to check a fact about one of the actors...( a little ritual with us) I offer to go to the computer and check....I do....and then he sees I am on HIS computer!!???? He over reacts and says I am spying and snooping...and I am to get OFF immediately. I was honestly just looking up John Wayne's birthday!@!
I was not snooping, I would not it's too hard on me frankly.... But he goes into his tirade about me not using his computer( the excuse given when I found all the damaging emails was that I had corrupted his files!! and gave him virus's, which I didn't, but he uses this to keep me off his computer.
Very tense night.
This morning H absolutely quiet all morning, I cannot tell you how unlike him this is, he usually makes some conversation. he did ask me to pick out his tie, but not to tie his shoes or help him in any way! takes an inordinate amount of time to come down to the car after sending me down to start it up...something is definitely "UP".?????
Okay, so here's the thing.. after all my wandering, musing, this afternoon.
It basically comes down to two things.
I keep getting smacked with reminders.
Everywhere I go. Everything I do. There are nasty little suprises. I don't mean I go looking for them, and it's not like I read meaning into ordinary things...I mean I keep getting confronted with evidence of past relationships!! I look in a box for the stapler....I find old pictures of an OW...from back when I didn't even know there was an OW!
Today, I find receipt for $3100 "Raymond Weil" ladies watch 2 1/2 years after he bought it in Jan 2001. We had been so poor that during that time, he didn't pay any bills, no mortgage, no food bills...nothing for xmas for any of us.Not that we agreed on this, he just up and one day said I didn't appreciate him and he would not pay for anything..... This was the FIRST time he stopped speaking to me for three months and said I needed to "learn to fend for myself" ( We had BOTH lost our jobs in september, he buys the watch in january).
His mother has been poor and illiterate her whole life and he hates her, same for his sister. So he did not give it to either of them. He did not give it to either of our daughters (18 and 23 at the time)In fact he wouldn't even help them with school costs at the time.. And he certainly didn't give it to me. Although the month AFTER he bought it, was when we reconcilled???????????? With him saying it wasn't him that stopped speaking.....
So bottom line. I recover from one hurt only to be faced with another. If I mention any of this, each time, he wants to just act like it never happened and the only thing he says is let's not live in the past!
2nd thing. I am getting over all the past relationships. I am hurt and still smarting, but for the most part coping. I'm having less reactions than in the last few weeks. But his on going relationship with "shark lady" is literally tearing me apart.
Problem 1: She is a divorce attorney FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!! and a GESTALT THERAPIST. If anyone knows how to push buttons and trash a relationship it's HER.
I don't stand a chance.
He is continuing this fantasy in his head with her.....
The other night he said he had to call her to discuss the case....okay fair enough. him: I don't WANT to call her after "office hours" because she may think I am coming on to her, but I can't call her from work." me: "so call her at 9 tommorow morning from home." him: "what and let her get pissed at me for calling during office hours?" ?????????????????????
HE SAYS HE IS NOT A PAYING CUSTOMER(SHE TOOK THE CASE ON RETAINER) and that means he has to be nice to her. Okay so he calls her with me in the room. Uses """""MY""""""cell phone with my permission( his was dead). When she answered I went into the other room, anticipating this will be a lengthy call.....
she: "Oh, I didn't recognize the number....." him: "Oh, it's just one of my MANY??? cell phones..." Me from the other room: me: " why don't you tell her it's mine?" ........talk, talk, talk, 35 minutes later:
she: "you sound sooooo tired, you poor thing" he: "well yeah, I am..." she: "how's your back? .....and your feet" she: " are you eating alright?" she: "oh, tell me all about your new book!" she: " How are ALL your classes going" yada yada yada............. after 45 minutes of this I cannot stand another minute.....
I grab my keys and give as neutral a face as I can and practically FLY out the door.....saying "I'll be back in 20 minutes"
This case is no where near settled. They are going to have to continue working closely. This is creating a huge BONDING between them due to the massive amount of personal data involved.
They are already going to be spending at least two days together in mid-december back in our old hometown, depositioning witnesses.... Together...just the two of them and the hostile witnesses.
He may even have to be there a whole week...the WEEK BEFORE XMAS!!!!!!
Am I being totally insecure? is this just a hopeless situation.....beyond any hope
Ya Know what? Everyone just ignore my last two posts.
There is nothing I or anyone else can do.
He is either going to be a !@#$ or not%^&*(. Nothing I say or do is going to make any difference.
I just have to give it up and concentrate on me.
I would love to know whether or not I should bring out the fact that he can't wait to get back up there and meet with her....but to do so.....just makes me sad....and won't stop him. I was hoping it would at least take the fun out of it all, but if I complain in anyways, he will see that as a victory and if I don't then i'm the dumb sap for being so guilable.
I have to look at this as though I have better things to do than try and work on this marriage because obviously, he thinks he has better things to do......so...... His focus is not here....it's elsewhere...
To me, it sounds like he is trying to bait you. He’s not behaving like someone in an affair, he’s behaving like someone who likes to get a rise out of you. Could he be really, really insecure at heart, and using these not-so-suble maneuvers to feel as if you loved him? As in, "she’s jealous so she must care"?
That thing about the wedding ring a few days ago … HE noticed that YOU were not wearing it. He talks to the lawyer he knows you’re worried about INFRONT of you. He brings up songs from a past he knows you’re worried about.
So, he’s either a very insensitive (not to say cruel) man who enjoys seeing you suffer, or he's a immature little boy trying to get your attention.
Hi Pen! Thanks for your thoughtful observations. I think you are right about several things.
He isn't in the affair right now. He was last fall, but the concern I have is in the rekindling of this nonsense, and it is nonsense. Mostly because SHE wants to pursue it and HE sees it as so flattering and attention giving.
I don't know if it's so much that he likes to "get a rise" out of me. But, he likes it when he can be absolved of responsibility and the reactions are all mine. Then he can label ME as: immature, insecure, uncertain, lacking confidence. (Those are his top four, most of the time).
I do see him as EMTREMELY insecure, always has been . very competitive for my attention, even with our children and relatives.Of course underneath the, I'm too busy to care, dead calm exterior.
IMHO all persons who partake of Affairs, do so out of insecurity. Not that all people who have affairs are bad people, just insecure. If they were certain and secure, they wouldn't do what they do in the way that they do it! They would be honest and forthcoming, commpassionate and considerate. They would speak to what they are feeling rather than deal with their feelings by going outside their relationships.
I don't think he doubts I love him. But he may wonder: " How can she stay with me after all the crappy things I've done? And what kind of a person would stay!!?? She must not be very secure", he is probably saying to himself. "She must not have very much self esteem."
Therefore he can treat me with less respect than what someone would treat someone they love.
I would say he is VERY INSENSITIVE. I would also say he IS VERY CRUEL. Now, he is very sensitive about what you say and do to HIM! But almost oblivious, it would appear, to my feelings.
He has taught himself to be immune to what someone else might feel.....not 100% of the time but I would say about 70% of the time.
Okay, Trish, I'm here and listening to your every word.
So here's my question to you, because I'm giving you the option of tackling this here or doing it offline. I have some very important questions to ask you, and they were able to take form and shape after I read your dialogue with Pen and the very specific information that you shared.
No whacks from me, so please don't think I'm going to do that to you. I'm much more concerned about YOU than your marriage prognosis right now. So that's where my dilemma on posting vs. e-mail lies.
Big hugs to you, dear friend.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Hi Betsey, Go ahead, I don't mind it being on the bb. I realize I thought T was being cruel and insensitive. But I think it's beyond that. I think "Quiets" observation about T baiting me led me to a new place, when next T attacked. I didn't know WHAT I was dealing with. I think it goes beyond or maybe deeper is a better word, than crazy making. I wrote you a long version which I will cut and paste here to follow. Fire away......... Hugs and love, Trish
I had to scroll back up to see who "Quiet" was? Pen, it's you!
I really like where the 2 of you are going with these dialogues. Please keep going, because I think she's bringing up things that neither one of us had considered previously. And bein' that she's smart and all, I'm glad.
Okay, so you've discussed these things that are extremely upsetting, disturbing and seem to continue never ending. I'm simply amazed by the frequency and quality of the surprises that you have received over the past month.
So let's paint the canvas with some broad strokes with a large brush... you're the artist. I'm just observing.
Trish, what are your boundaries and what are your deal breakers?
Gosh, please know I'm not goading you. I just sense some new and uncomfortable feelings on your part and I want to explore them a little bit more.
Frankly, I think everything you're observing and sharing is deceitful (on his part, naturally) and extremely upsetting. The more you seem to balance all of these things, the more angry and withdrawn he seems to become? Is this how you perceive him? Or do you see this differently? (I'm not in the know, but merely asking for your thoughts here.)
Fire away. I'll be back. I keep getting interrupted here at work anyway. I might as well make a few personal interruptions of my own.
Ciao for now.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
