I'm not sure yet if I belong here. I've been over on newcomers since January. He left at the end of August, and returned home, without any fanfair, last night. He'd been with OW all weekend and told her on Sunday afternoon that he was breaking it off and returning home.
He didn't make a big deal of it, no declarations of love, no appologies, no please let me come home, no please take me back. He just came home. Now what? Now he's gone on a 2 day business trip and will be back Tuesday night. How's the best way to handle this? Kids didn't know the details, and I hope they never do. He just told them he was working on a special project and couldn't be home for a while. What do I do? Jump for joy? Act as if nothing has happened? I'm calling my counselor today, I just don't know what to do with all the feelings, unexpected feelings. Shouldn't I be happier? I guess whatever I feel is what I feel. Help!
Each experience in life has formed me, become part of me, made me stronger.
May I suggest you start your own thread in Piecing to allow your story to be understood apart from someone elses, that way people can follow you logically.
Also, please include a little more background info of what you have been doing while your H was away etc. and the general circumstances.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Mellanie- I know exactly what you are going through. The hard work is just beginning. My H left in January 04, was having A with woman he works with. From the day he moved out though he said he wasnt ready to throw away our marriage. The truth about everything finally came out in May. We decide to make a go of it and H moved home July 1st. The day he moved home was a let down. He was very quiet and pretty much withdrew. I think it was a combination of not feeling at home anymore, upsetting the OW and a whole new routine. Things were really rocky for the first two months. He was calling OW and checking in with her fairly often. Eventually that has died down and we are getting more and more on sturdy ground. It clearly takes a while for our WAH to get over OW even if its their decision to end it.. Be patient, dont smother him and try to go about daily routines as upbeat and normal as possible. He will come around but you will have to give him some space and remain patient. Good Luck- we are cheering for you
Somehow I keep gravitating to this thread. Like the term "reconciliation," I guess.
My H has not moved home. I don't want that yet. But we're getting closer as friends, and that's a big relief.
I'm giving myself permission to see what kind of R I want with this guy.
He's not able to LISTEN to me, to hear anything heartfelt from me, but he is being nicer and more supportive in general.
That's cool. Not the connection I want, but satisfying, after all our grief.
So we'll just see if he gets to be my main man again.
The real drag is that I whenever I'm with my H intimately, I imagine he's judging my comeliness, sexiness (and guitar skills) with a hyper-critical eye.
In his vicinity I can re-experience PANIC and PAIN so easily. He is still clueless about hurting my feelings.
So I still have to TURN AWAY FROM a lot of his remarks. Maybe they're just offhand. Maybe it's good he feels free enough to share things with me. I try to FOCUS ON THE POSITIVE and on my own magic and my own dreams.
But his years of combing the world for lusty babes took its toll on my trust. His lies. Should we leave them buried?
I'm feeling pretty chilly toward him, sexually.
I don't see him seeing ME as a goddess.
That's fine -- as long as we're just PALS.
But I've got to eventually FORGIVE him and LET GO and GO FORWARD, if we are working toward intimate partnership.
Thing is, there are some things he must do if he wants to be my lover.
What do I do with that?
I can't be demanding. I can't accuse or pout. I can't punish him for the past.
I am no longer depleted -- I've filled up my life.
But I am not "filled up" by my H. So it feels stale with him, and is beginning to be TOO BIG A CHORE to put my authentically sensitive, loving, vulnerable self ON ICE all the time so he can be comfortable.
We'll just see what happens.
I appreciate this forum. It helps me with my discipline.
I thought I would up date and do a little journaling.....maybe something I am going through will help others.
No mystery LivN', just life getting in the way!
The last time I really posted was in April!! Recap: Last November, after a wrenching 3 months, my H made contact with me and we had a reconcilliation. He had not spoken to me in that three months except once in August to say he was "out" ???and everthing was now my responsibility!? The house, the car, all bills and the kids(4 college age, 2 still living at home, all 4 still financially dependent.)
The ONLY clue I had was that he said I did not appreciate him and took him totally for granted!!
Sooooooooooo not true!
I had been totally responsible for our children emotionally, physically, health and school, everthing(except financially) for at least the previous 10 years! he was always too busy! Eight years earlier: He had come up with a "plan" to enable our kids to qualify for financial aide...By claiming we were "separated". He rented a place in town and the family stayed out at the house in the suburbs. He even went so far as to file papers stating a seperation agreement (I did not agree to this nor did I sign anything!) He signed my name on these, saying they were for tax reasons and filed them the next day! He even had it notarized by someone I NEVER met in the condo building. Anyways, he claimed the "seperation" was only "on paper" and nothing would change, he would continue to be involved with family and pay all the bills(signifigant with four teenagers) and HE DID. Our relationship continued on, with me going to the condo a few days a week and he would come out to the house on weekends. We took family vacations together and never told the neighbors or anyone about our arrangement. Except he told the people in the building that he was separated, when asked. All paperwork for his employers stated he was "Married". House, insurance, check books all remained in both of our names.
Then Sept.01...days before 9/11, we both lost our jobs. I was thrilled, I hated mine, but he was despondent about the loss of income. The DAY that this happened he did his first; "I will no longer take any responsibility, all the bills are up to you now, and I am out of here".....!!!!!!! I was in shock! Lost twenty pounds overr the following two months, and thought he was seriously thinking about divorce or he was manipulating us all to do what he wanted!
Three months later, after he reached out to me, we reconcilled. He said he felt like I(me) needed to grow and he didn't know any other way to force me to take responsibility, except for him to completely withdraw!
We picked up the pieces and moved forward. I got a new job and by spring we knew he was going to start a new job in august at a local University. He bought me a car and we started spending more time together. I even nursed him through foot surgery and life seemed good for about 9 months. When in January it AGAIN it appeared that he was going to lose his position by June, due to some pretty rough political in-fighting, on campus. Now in January 03 we saw the writing on the walls in terms of his job future and though our marriage seemes strong as ever, after spending a great christmas, he started job hunting in a very concerted way and I supported him as much as I could.
His credentials are amazing and we both knew a position would not be hard to come by, in fact in the past he had always had more offers than he could ever have considered.
Anyways, the interviews got lined up and by May we were making trips all over the East coast together! to various Universities and enjoying the time and traveling together.........spending almost the whole summer going from one place to the next............happily,or so I thought.
We were making plans together for our future and it seemed like our separation was finally going to come to an end. Three of our four kids graduated in May and began job hunts and we kept the pressure up on them by telling them that in all likelyhood Mom and Dad would be relocating by summers end. So they had better be looking. We would keep the house going as long as we could, but could not do that indefinitely.
After a summer of traveling and fun, each interview ended positively with an almost guaranteed offer to follow.
But each interview resulted in withdrawl of the offer after they checked with the University!!! each time they called for references the U. would say " We can't comment on the candidiate until the lawsuit has been settled" thus killing his offer!!! Devastating to him and causing what I now know was extreme stress and uncertainty. Finally after an offer was extended in the middle of August..It looked good...even though it involved an IMMEDIATE MOVE AND starting a semester very unprepared.
All of a sudden on a Sunday, after I dropped our daughter at work, he makes a claim that I am again excluding him from family things ( my taking daughter to work???!!) and taking him for granted and he stopped speaking to me ordering me to return "His" car.
A week later he said goodbye to our daughter as I took her back up to school and he gave me a very impersonal hug at the door to his condo.??
NO communication for two months except through one son who says his dad said to him, "Dad is seriously thinking of Divorce"?????????????? Then after fearing the worst and finding the bb I was prepared for when he called and tried to reconcille.
I DB'd my butt off for a long time and we got back on track pretty quickly. *He brought me up to speed with his job hunt (seriously on going) *His health(several serious issues) *The pending lawsuit(on going and very involved and stress filled) *His hopes for us to move past all this. *He said he had been in counceling, was very depressed and on meds, very confused and missed me terribly. *That he had not been involved with anyone, and just had felt terribly taken for granted.
We started slow but I db'ed everday! Finally, after a few weeks it felt like things just might work out. We had a great holiday time, even though finances were extremely tight. We filed bankruptcy in January, faced a lawsuit one for each of us in March....and we also managed to spend almost every other day together. Go to functions together, build up his business and really develop as a couple. We stared working out together almost daily, worked on the selling of the properties, and started to go to church together regularly. He constantly include me in the process of re-employment and his concerns about the qualifiactions of his lawyer( a woman EEOC lawyer) and in April he went on an interview to NC. In May he was offerd the position and we began to make our plans to move!
One son and one daughter had each gotten a job and had moved out, with only one son remaining at home we kept moving forward. Finally in July our last son moved down to raleigh,NC. and we made our plans to also move to the Outer Banks (our dream move!)
All was going so well I had stopped looking in on the bb and we had in fact gotten some M counceling and were pretty positive about our future. We talked more about our problems (communication) and seemed to be able to talk pretty openly about it. We moved the second week of August and spent the first five weeks happily (understatement) setting up household. Working together on our new place, doing all kinds of litle things together, from getting a licence plate (with all our initials on it) to attending parties together, going to the grocery store, buying things for our new place. His new job started and I met all the co-workers at a couple of functions, we made plans for trips to the beach, the lawsuit was still pending but things seeemed okay!
The U. gave him a new computer and so we didn't need to buy another one! Hurray!!
Now, I am not very Computer savvy!!
One day in an attempt to find pictures he had downloaded for me to "send" in an email, I went into a "send" email file!! Silly me.
I discovered an email I thought was sent to me, with a cute subject line.......it was an email he had sent about 1 1/2 years ago to a woman in california.!!!!!!!!!...
I then began a serious 4 hour search.
I discovered posting after posting to other women. He had had made contact on-line, at dating sites, met women for dates about 4 that I can tell,and had been carrying on a Long Distance, back and forth with this woman in CA for what appeared to be 2 years!! With reference to phone calls and actual invitations to "visit"......SENT HER SONGS AND TALKED ABOUT WHEN HE HAD MET HER 12 YEARS AGO!!
I was in shock.
It wasn't just one woman, there were many.
Most of this appeared to have occurred during the summer we were traveling around together, making plans for our life together, and while I thought we were closer than EVER. He had been setting up dates with other women!!!!!!!!!!!!! Telling them about OUR trips and emailing them as soon as we were back. Meeting them for dinners and movies!!Telling them he was divorced since 1996 and lying about our family situation!!
I cannot tell you how absolutely stunned and sickened I was.
I literally could not process this in my brain. I didn't know what to do! Confront, wait, search more!! ask for an explaination...........?????????????
I tried to act as though nothing had happened and could only think I should try to just to to the gym by myself to think this through, but he knew something was wrong and would not let up!!! Finally I broke....I got sooo angry!! I just was furious...........not violent but I was MAD!! He explained for four hours and finally HE got mad. He said what hurt the most was that I hadn't given him the benfit of the doubt and asked him about what I had found. That each of these contacts was just with women he had had just a passing interest in and nothing had happened. He had either stopped communicating with them or broken it off. That it had happened all around that time when he was so confused and under extreme stress, that he should have been in counceling or on medication long before he was. He kept saying how he had never had sex with any of them and had only tried to have friendships with them. I calmed down a little but was so hurt and confused.
The next day I started again with snipping comments and he just got madder! He said no matter what he does or what he says I am not going to believe him. That he would have wanted me to come to him, as his partner of 28 years, and calmly asked for an explanation. Okay true enough, But I was HURT!! We spent some rocky days with him trying to tell me that if he hadn't wanted me here he sure had his chance he could have broken off our relationship at any time and he needed this investigation to end. It is bringing us down and he feels it has it's roots in a deeper problem( my problem) in not being honest with my feelings. Making problems where there are none, and basically he felt I need third party help(counceling). that he loves me but no matter how many times he tells me this I just won't believe him!
Well, I kept investigating. I went back in to read all the emails I could find...I made notes ...I compared dates......I took down names ansd email addresses and phone numbers.....I thought about it non stop!! He never took away my access, although he said he felt like I was constantly investigating him, and he resents my lack of trust in him.....( I know hahahaha!!)
True, I don't trust him! I am finding it nearly impossible! He expained away each woman and each explaination seemed pausible. Some seemed downright pathetic attempts at his reaching out for some company. It would appear he never had any sexual contact, but at this date I am not 100 percent sure of that because last week after going through his office (at home) ((we are still unpacking)) I found a box with five condoms in it.! Four expired in 1998 and one is new (I believe you can only buy these by the box and if so, where are the other ones!!) Why is a man who espouses his claim to love his wife and family keeping condoms!!!!!!???????
Now for a man 28 years to the same woman, and he had a vasectomy over 20 years ago, why does he have condoms if he is not sleeping or thinking of sleeping with someone other than ME!
This is beginning to ramble a bit! So let me summmarize: 1. We have had many "talks" over the last three weeks. 2. He has tried to explain as I ask questions. 3. He has been very open about where he goes and what he does always was though. 4. He has been letting me see his emails.( not happily but never the less.....) 5. We have tried to do fun things togther, alone and with groups over the last few weeks. he wants us to move on. 6. We have been having sex, which has been good, although I get to thinking thoughts about others he MAY have been with. 7. He dismisses these past "relationships" as mistakes he made at a time in his life when he was overwhelmed. 8. He has not been emailing or calling anyone of these or other people. 9. There has been some "distance" between us that I am very uncomfortable with.........I feel like when I have uncertainty I cannot come out with it without sounding like I am investigating or accusing again! And I don't know what to do about it. 10. One of the peoople he had "dated" was his lawyer!! She initiated the date and paid for it.......it turned into nothing as far as I can tell.....and almost immediately after their two "dates" was when we reconcilled. She stands to make a lot of money off any settlement and this may have a part in what happened. He has been very forthcoming about her and there were many nights we were in bed together while he emailed her something, he always showed me what it was. In fact about two months ago he tried to dismiss her, but found it too difficult to involve a new lawyer this far into the proceedings. No other lawyer would take it on so late in the case without involving her! They appear to have a completly professional relationship and she knows I am here with him and that we are reconcilled.
Well, I guess that brings it up to date.
I am struggling with this on alot of fronts. On one hand, this happened a year or more ago for him. But for me this happened three weeks ago. There are only a few things that bother about most of this now.
The connection he has with this lawyer......She is very manipulative( he appears aware of this) and there will need to be an on going relationship both on-line( because we are out of state) and occasionally in person.( inevitable court appearances).
The relationship with the woman in Calif.,which appears to be a very onesided,(his emotional needs) and only a EA, should he begin to feel lonely again and continue to talk with her. He claims it is freindship only and mostly fantasy on his part.She is married and he isn't overtly attracted to her?????? As far as I know he is not continuing with any contact with her.
The condoms.
The fact that he does NOT want to talk about all this. Just pretending it didn't happen invalidates my feelings and lets him avoid his feelings.
Okay, that's it for the moment..\
Except that I think I need a DB refresher!! and have tried to reinstitute some of that......
If anyone want to wade in I would welcome some feedback.
I have made a few key decisions and am just finding my way through this process.........
I've never been here before and don't really want to be here at this precise point!!
OK. I started my own thread. I don't know how to link, so if you're interested, it's called "How do I start?" Thanks for the input. As for offering advice, I'm just a lost soul looking for enlightenment. I'll listen and learn. Me
Each experience in life has formed me, become part of me, made me stronger.
I read your update a couple of days ago, and was at a loss about how to respond.
One question, what did you think of your H's plan all those years ago to live separate lives (two houses etc) for financial reasons? Did you really think it was a great idea, or did you merely feel obliged to go along with it for some reason?
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
At the time H initially approached me with the idea, I said no.
No way.
It took several months for him to convince me that this was more about enabling our four children to qualify for financial aide. Which was true enough.
I definitely felt EXTREMELY obligated...and I was in a way. Obligated to do the most I can for our children.
At that time we had one son entering college (attending a community college WAY beneath the level of education he needed! due to lack of OUR ability to pay)...and with a second child due to start that year and then another one for each following year.
All in all we would have had four in at one time...and we were looking at least eight years of this condition!
Colleges do not consider how many children you have in college, they simply look at your income and what they consider your ability to pay.
Now my husband's income was about $120,000. a year, but having to pay approx. $20,000 for each student per year meant that at least $80,000 a year would go to tuition.
Leaving us after taxes with little or no income to support ourselves and other expenses.(If you've ever had kids in college you know it doesn't end with tution, there's books and fees, transportation, clothing, medical expenses, just fun money and lots of other incidental expenses. $80,00 was just tuition!)
So it DID make sense from a financial stand point.
But most definitely not from an emotional one.
It felt to me(the tape in my insecure head) like a reason to keep our seperation going, but I had to admit he seemed genuinely concerned about how to get them all through college.
They all have very high IQ's and were extremely good students.
My H stated that nothing would change, we would continue as always, he would still pay the bills and stay at the house on weekends, I would come down to condo during the week. We never told any of our neighbors or co-workers. Family vacations were the same and it was only "on paper". we even enjoyed the fact that we had a place to go to get away from the "kids" for a while, to be by oursleves!! Our own little "Love Nest"( the condo)
He even said based on how well "we" had been doing the last few years he didn't want to continue the separation, he just couldn't see any other way without enslaving the kids to work study, high interest loans or a lower quality of education that what they deserved.
So that was the rationale. And he was good as his word, Nothing did change for MANY years. Everything did go on as planned.
Now the flip side was, it seemed too convenient, for him.
It enabled him to keep his distance. It made me overly responsible for everday functioning and left him out of the loop on the everyday sort of involvment you get when you are living together.
Yes, it solved alot of problems because whenever one or the other of us was mad or upset we could withdraw to our respective corners, but it also made it easy to build up a coping mechanism of not dealing with problems, except to withdraw. Not really a solution more of an avoidance.
I once had a therapist say to me "You may have hit on the ideal Marriage!! A way to stay married and avoid all kinds of problems!Not have to put up with each other, keep the romance alive."
She was soooooooo wrong. It created a hugh gulf! Of resentment, mistrust, loneliness, false sense of security, being left out, being over burdened, feeling taken for granted and lack of chance for developing communication skills.ON BOTH OUR PARTS.
Yes, I had the freedom to run the kids and the house the way I wanted on a day to day basis, but I learned to avoid including my husband and it left him VERY vulnerable to feelings of resentment and exclusion.
He hid that well with all his business and workaholic habits, but in the end, he was angry/miserable and had no other way to fill the voids except to look outside our relationship.....( NOT making excuses for him) but after 8 years of this sort of existance being in the habit of doing what you want, without having to consider the other, gets comfortable and you can easily come to resent not being able to get your way in things, what you do where you go, who you associate with...what your priorities are....especially if you are harboring resentments that you are being excluded from your famiies life...why wouldn't you go looking for some activities and friendships apart from your spouse?
Thanks for asking! It helped me look at it with a different perspective. Trish
Well, I've decided to take a break from my overloaded desk and want to devote a little time here. To you.
WHAT IF.........
You could go to him and say, "Honey, the past is the past! I'm commiting myself to letting it go. To help me move forward and stay completely focused on that, I'm going to need your help."
I see you're look of incredulity But I'm going to go on...
"In order for me to do that, I need certain things from you. Some of those things are going to require a commitment on your part. We have been so happy lately, and I would like to get back on that track. When I was happy, I was feeling [XXXXXXXXXXXX] and you were doing [XXXXXXXXX].
A happy marriage is one where both of us wins. I would also like to do the same for you. What do you feel you need from me to see that I am 100% committed to our marriage?"
Then see what he has to say?
Now, we can talk about how you deal with your feelings for the past off line. They are definitely going to require a commitment as well. Of all people, I know you have the knowledge and willpower to get there.
One of my colleagues shared a great analogy with me this morning. It was in relation to a mutual friend of ours who is completely stuck. He told him:
Let's say you are sitting in a room and it's 60 degrees in there. You're cold. The thermostat says the heat is set at 60, the thermometer also says the same thing. Well, until you get up off your butt and go turn up the thermostat, there is NO way that room is going to warm up.
Okay, so you've decided to turn the doggone thing up. So you turn it up to 90 and head back to the sofa. After 10 minutes, you're feeling impatient and you're still cold. You're angry because the thermostat says 90 but the thermometer still reads 60.
Are you willing to be patient so that the thermostat can begin working? It didn't plummet to 60 degrees immediately, and it certainly isn't going to get warmer for awhile. But the good news is that you can do physical things to make yourself feel warmer as the temperature starts to rise.
What can you do to build warmth until the thermostat catches up?
I loved it!
So, dear, what can you do to get over to the thermostat, and then what are you going to do in the interim to build up some internal heat to keep you on this path?
Hugs!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
But I'm going to go on...