as Yoda would say....the force is strong in you...

[ericmsant2]

Hello Everyone

It’s been a while since I have been on the boards. It seems like an eternity. I think of everyone on these boards and I pray for all of you guys all the time. I still read the boards but I really felt it was time for me to step away. For those of you who are new to this process, please listen to the vets. You will keep hearing detach, detach, work on you, fix you. Listen to these words. Sit quietly and examine them, understand them. For IF you fix YOU (and it doesn’t happen overnight)…well then YOU will be OK.

This post is directed to all of the men (sorry women), who struggle with the impact a going through this or a divorce will have on your children. To those men who struggle with taking the HIGH ROAD. Taking the road to NEVER tell your children what your batchit crazy spouse or XW is doing or has done. To those men who are AFRAID that they will not have time with their children or be an active part of your kids lives. To those men who’s W or XW had an affair and felt like you could never live or love again...

I am here to tell you that 1) YOU can have a life and you can love again 2) taking the HIGH ROAD, no matter how hard, no matter how long…is WORTH IT! 3) That the FEAR you have of loosing your children or not being part of your lives or never being able to love again….is just that FEAR – NOT REALITY. That is unless you make it your reality.

So men…..Fight for your kids! Become the best dad you can be. Keep them out of harms way. Take the high road….always….but realize that some lesson that they will learn will be learned the hard way. Some one once said, the IRON when heated BECOMES STEEL. Remember this, for many of you are in the fire. IF you do the work YOU WILL BECOME STEEL. You WILL become MEN that YOU will be proud of. The best part, your kids….will follow you.

Okay, so for update on me….

Life is good PERIOD. My girlfriend is great. The kids get along with her. A day does not go by that my D11 does not draw a picture for her. My job is good. Being a single parent 60 – 70 % of time is tough at times, but I am doing okay – thanks in part to the tools that I learned here and the friends that I made here. I feel at peace. Yet sometimes the anger can still surface from time to time.

I am planning a vacation in the next few weeks. My kids, especially my boys are happy. The kids love being with me. My girlfriend is going to law school. I am still working on myself. Still examine myself and always pushing myself. I have packed on a few pounds (about 15) but I am still not as big as I was during the crisis. My XW is still lost. Still gone. We have moved in two totally different directions. I feel sorry for her. It is sad of what her life has become. I still pray for her (and FTR, still prays she gets hit by bus some days – LOL – just kidding).

Soooo….life is really good. I am planning a trip to Canada with my girlfriend, a trip to Washington DC and a trip to Philly if I can swing it.

Anywhooo….I wanted to recap a conversation that my boys had with their mother a few weeks ago. I know this is a long post. I wanted to document the conversation and what better place than here.

A little background before I recap the convo…(you can go to the first page of this post for all of the history) – here is the short background…..

During the crisis, I remained in the martial home. My XW was seeing her supervisor. My children never knew. My XW took great length to poison the kids against me. It was tough….my oldest son (18) pretty much hated me. When I moved out finally, he never came to visit. My XW had done a fair amount of damage although she always denied it.

Over the past month, my oldest has really opened up to me. Has told me the things his mother said to him. Many times, I wanted to drive over to her house and punch her in the face. I didn’t (thanks T). I kept taking the high road. I kept telling him that we both loved him and that his mother more than likely believes what she says. We have had quite a few long conversations. I have continue to validate how he feels (learned from the boards) and have said that is was okay that he was angry but that he should not hold on to the anger. The last conversation was….his asking me if I cheated on his mother. My response was NO I did not. He asked me if she cheated. My answer was that he needed to ask her and that really what happened between her and I was between her and I. I have told him that the R between him and his mother is between him and her. That I cannot fix it. I suggested to both of my boys that the talk to her.

They did.

When I dropped the boys off, I asked my XW if she told the boys that I cheated on her. She said NO. That my son was lying. . I said ok, I suggested that XW speak to S18 because he is quite upset with you. I further went on to say, that I have not said a word to the kids about her transgression as that is not my place. I suggested that she be honest with them.

On Monday, after she took them shopping for sneakers and cloths (interesting that she would do that PRIOR to initiating conversation with them), she sat down with S18 to have a conversation with him, specifically about his comments that she is a liar. I received a text from xw and from S18 at 7pm on Saturday that I needed to come over.

When I arrived they were both outside. S18 said to me, Dad I wanted you here so that we can all talk and the truth can come out. I responded that I have nothing to hide and will be honest, that said, there are things that I do not feel are beneficial for him to hear and that I would not answer those question as I do not want to lie. Since EVERYONE agreed to be honest, I went on to ask XW a question ….. did she tell S18 that I cheated on her? She said she did. I said, why then did you say something different to me yesterday? She stuttered and said that I did cheat on her, she said that by grabbing a womens boob on my 40th birthday party that she considered that cheating. My response was…I maintained what I have always said, which was that I was drunk on my BD and that I did not recall doing it. I also asked the women (who was a family friend of both of us) who said I did not do it.

S18 responded….so Mom, grabbing a boob is cheating? Really? I then asked XW, did she say to the boys, that I held her back her whole life and emotionally abused her for 18 years. She said she did. My response was…”what benefit does saying this have to the boys – how is this promoting a healthy relationship with their father”. I said, that I was sorry she felt that I held her back and felt emotionally abused but that she made the CHOICE to remain married.

S18 jumped in and asked me if his mother cheated on me, I said to ask his mother. Her response was that there are things about the marriage that he did not need to know. That she felt she never cheated on me. S18 went on to say to his mother, that he would like to know why she changed everyone life, because of an accusation of something that occurred on my 40th birthday party but NEVER even went to ask the person that I supposedly did this too. She said, she was waiting for the women to approach her. S18, said, really she lived across the street, you mean you never thought to at least ask her? S18 said, he asked the women and her husband and they both told him that I did not do it. He then went on to say….so you mean to tell me mom, that you made a drastic decision to f*ck up everyones life and never asked the person who this happened to? Really mom, you never thought to at least ask? Really? Her response was that she was sorry that she did not ask. He said, I’m sorry I do not believe you. At this point XW gave me the look that I am used to, a look that said save me. I decided I was not going to save her.

S18 then went on to say, that he would like to know how a mother who loves her children would spend 2 years poisoning them against their father. That based on the things that she said to him, he hated his father for two years. Totally hated him. So why mom, why would you say these things to me? She went on to say several times, that she was emotionally abused, that she was held back her entire life, she played up the victim over and over again. S18 said, you still did not answer my question. She played the victim again. I finally responded and said to son that, S18 should try and understand that this is how his mother feels and she has every right to feel this way – just like he has a right to feel the way he feels. S18 then said, you still have not answered me mom. She played the victim again by saying he did not understand how hard it was to be married to me and that what happened in the marriage is between her and I. S18. responded…then if was between you and dad, why did you tell me these things about my dad? He also asked why did she say I cheated if I didn’t. She said she was sorry and that she should not have said it and that she lied. He then said, Mom you are an F’in liar. You need help.

XW started to cry (fake tears imo)…..XW then said, she didn’t lie. Both S18 and I looked shocked. Did she just retract what she said. Yep – welcome to world of MLC folks. S18 slammed his hand on the table and said, so you now just took back what you just said, which is that you lied. So is this the truth mom or is this another lie. You are liar mom and you still have not answered my question. Why would you say these things about my dad to me? How could a mother who loves her children do this? Why do you poison us against our dad? I was personally, surprised at my S18 – he would not let go. He was resolute in getting an answer from him. She then said again, that she was held back her entire life, that is was so hard to be married to me.

My son was getting angrier and angrier. He wanted and answer and all XW could do was play the victim.

I was finally sick of hearing her blame me for everything and decided to speak up. I said, XW I am sorry but you continue to play the victim here. Bottom line we both made mistakes in the M. Both of us. You made choices in your life, those choices are yours not mine to own they are yours. At this point XW gave me the look…one that I have become used to…the look that said…F U.

S18 responded with…..so mom, it was soo bad, that you were able to stay home with us, we were able to go on vacations, had parties at the house, had lots of fun, you told us all the time about hw much you loved dad but now it was that bad for 18 years. XW said nothing. S18 then said, so mom, you still have not answered my question…..why would a mother who claims to love her kids, claimed to love someone for 18 years say these things about him to his children. XW, after realizing that she could not talk her way said that she would like to apologize to him and to me. So she looked at S18 and said sorry and said sorry to me. It was IMO, the most insincere apology I have ever seen. S18 said, I don’t believe you, your apology is not sincere – you are just saying sorry so that we can end the conversation I was shocked the S18 felt the same way and called her on it. At this point S16 came outside.

S16 said, he heard everything and that he is disgusted at his mother. That her apology is not sincere…that “sorry mom, I just don’t believe you”, “you can’t even look dad in the face”. S18 walked away saying…you are liar, you still can’t even answer the question. I told the boys that their mother believes what she is saying and that she and I both love them very much. S18 said, I know you love us, but she is a liar dad. XW said to the boys, but I apologized, what else do you want? They both looked at her and said, you don’t get it mom. You just don’t get it. You need help. You need to see a therapist to talk to someone. S18 said, mom you really need help, and you need to see someone and I’m not talking about talking to your family or your friends – no a therapist. HE then asked again, why did you say these things to me about my dad mom – you still have not answered? She said because you asked S18. S18 responded, and so you lied and said he cheated mom – that is what you told me – that dad cheated. XW then said, he did cheat. S18 said, so once again, you admitted to lying and now you are taking it back again. OMG, mom, you are a liar. She then looked at me and said, Eric Sr I didn’t lie – did I? I responded XW, this is how you feel – I feel differently. This is between you and S18. I suggest that you be honest with him. She said, I am. I said really? Really XW (for those who do not know my kids still do not know). She then said to S18 and S16, (quite casually) well I already apologized – so I am not sure what else you want. I will go see a therapist. S18 and S16 – I don’t believe you. You really just want this conversation to end – you need help.

At this point I felt needed to separate XW from the boys as S18 looked like he was going to slap her. I asked XW to take a ride to the gas station with me to buy smokes – she agreed.

Driving to the gas station I explained to XW, that I have not told them about OM and suggested that she listen to what they boys were saying to her. I also suggested that she stop playing the victim and take some ownership of her half of the failure, that maybe it would help. I explained that the kids have seen a lot and that they are older now and are putting the pieces together for themselves. XW looked at me and said, I did nothing wrong – this is all your fault. I responded,…..really XW, you did nothing wrong. OMG, you really just do not see it do you. You know what; I have nothing else to say. I tried to help you. You do what you think you need to do as I said before this is between them and YOU.

When we arrived back (we were gone for 10 mins)…the boys were still outside (D11 was inside sleeping the whole time). S18 and S16 were looking at there mom with disgust. S16 kept shaking his head. XW said again to them and to me again, that she was sorry. I said to the boys that I would arrange therapy for them. I asked XW if she was okay with the boys seeing Rebecca my old therapist. She said yes. I said, are you sure because I did not want you to feel like I felt when you took the kids to therapy without consulting me. It was at this time that she finally admitted to not telling me about it. She then tried to play up what S18 had said to her, which is the reason she originally took him to a theratpist. She said, yes I did not tell you because S18 had said so many things about you and how you treated him. It was at this point that S18 said “mom – I mentioned a nightmare I had, which I recalled dad and you arguing – I never said a lot of things to you about dad – you see you are lying again”. I asked XW, why she said the thing to her attny about my son and therapy – she said I really didn’t do anything wrong”. I was actually amazed. S18 stood up again and said, mom you are liar and I hate liars.

At this point since it was getting late, I asked S16 if he had anything else to say. S16 said that he hates it at moms. XW said, she is sorry that it is an apartment. S16 said, it has nothing to do with it being an apartment. It has everything to do with your drama and your attitude. It has to do with your mood and you always being negative.” XW said again I know it is because it is an apartment. S16 said you just don’t get it mom….you just don’t get it. S18 then chimed in and said, Mom you always says stuff about dad. I don’t like it here either. I explained to XW in front of the kids, that S16 has made this comment to me several times and that my response has always been that when his mother buys her house that maybe he will feel better.

It was getting late and I wanted to end the conversation since I did not feel that anything positive would come from it. So I asked if XW had anything else to say. She said no.I said goodnight and left. The following day, XW was suppose to take the kids to NJ to see family. The boys did not want to go and I suggested to XW, that she try to give them space and let them feel what they were feeling. To try and have a good weekend with them. XW indicated that she would not allow the boys to walk over her and that she would speak to them when she came home that night. I said, fine do what you think you need to do. When she arrived (according to the boys) – she looked at S16 and said, you are not going, looked at S18 and said you are not going grab D11 and left. The boys called me later that night to pick them up.

I have since signed up the boys for Therapy.

My point to this long story is………..
1) Taking the high road is the right thing to do
2) The truth WILL always come out
3) Be fathers to your kids – keep them safe.
4) You cannot fix everything….often times, children will form their own opinions.

I leave everyone with this…..My boys DO Love their mom – they just do not like her right now. I took the advice of a friend of mine and sat down with the boys. I told them a little about MLC – they got it. It made sense to them. They understand that mom…right now is just not the same. The now understand that it is not them – that it is something that mom must deal with.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Eric