I guess I can be here now

[Endeavour]

And ESN, it's not like I don't want to get over it. I want to get over the anger. But it's taking me a while. Really, I was feeling a lot better about the whole ruined pregnancy thing until I found those chats (and oh my God it made me so angry to see he was having one RIGHT IN FRONT of me as I'm lying in the hospital bed with our newborn), but right now I'm angry about the lying. I understand that the EA is over and done with, but he perpetuated the lie. And supposedly he's come clean, but I'll never really know for sure.

It's going to take you awhile to get over that anger, May. But just because we feel angry, doesn't mean we have to give into it. Instead, you can chose to distract yourself. Sometimes when my anger starts simmering, I will ask my husband for a hug, ask him to spend some time with me or ML. If I focus on our positive interactions, I'm able to let my anger go for awhile. Yes, it will pop back up when I'm triggered and I'll think, "How could he do this to me?!" But you control your mind, right?

I can be angry and miserable OR I can chose to do something loving and fun with my H instead of lashing out. Most of the time, good feelings will follow. Is it 100% foolproof? Nope.

But replacing bad feelings and memories with happy memories is a good place to start.

By the way, that doesn't mean sweeping issues under the carpet OR not dealing with them. I'm only referring to something that is over and done with. In the past. Not new issues or something hurtful that is ongoing.

It takes practice and believe me sometimes I still want to beat him down with a bag of oranges. I am not the perfect DB'er. I get off track sometimes. Less now, but definitely often in the first months after D-day. Be patient with yourself.

I think one of the keys for me getting to piecing so fast was because (yes, ex-ow was an idiot so there wasn't much competition there), but I was already detached from my M on D-day. I don't know if you've ever read my sitch but I was sort of the WAS first. I even gave my H the ILYBINILWY speech. I had essentially checked out of my M so I was already on the DB path, as far as not begging, pleading or crying on bomb day. That's why I know this stuff works. I've seen it work in my life. Once, I came here, even though some of it seemed counter-intuitive, I followed the advice to a T. Well, most of the time...I tried at least.

What I'm trying to say is that our emotions can often lead us astray. If we can take the emotions out of sitch for awhile, the results will be different.

I'm angry but what does showing it every time I feel it get me? Distance. More anger. My H feels guilty. I know he also feels ashamed, embarrassed and broken. Those must be an awful feelings too. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes any more than mine.

If you get to piecing and the M is the same, what's the point? We have to do things differently or we'll end up in the same spot 2 years or 5 years or 10 years from now.

Now that would make me really angry!

So, Endeavor, I don't know if it's my gut or my fear. Clearly the fear is very real and very present.

I think that's why it's hard to know if your gut is giving you the truth OR if you're fear is making you BELIEVE it's the truth. It's a little hard to trust your gut given your past history. Self-fulfilling prophecies and all that.

If you need to know to move forward, as I said above, you're going to have to make it safe for him to do so BUT it's not ever going to feel safe for him if you're going to end the M if he admits he had a PA. So you either believe him at this point, or you don't.

I'd want to know too so I understand your feelings on this issue. I asked my H if there were any more A's in his past. I said that if he truly loved and respected me, to please give me the truth about my life. I said without the truth there would always be a wall between us. I told him that I needed complete truth and honesty to move forward. I can only trust that he complied because I can't go back in time or read his mind.

I'm not sure there's any middle ground here because you seem to believe there was a PA but he's insisting that there was not. Short of giving the man a polygraph, I don't know what else you can do, aside from giving him the truth and honesty speech I gave my H and hoping for the best. Or just deciding that you have no choice but to believe him.

I brought up Retrouvaille. I inquired for more information for the one in my area and sent the link to H. He said he didn't want to talk in front of people, but I told him I didn't think it necessarily worked like that. I also assured him it's not overly religious. He said he might go, but wanted to know more about it first. Any suggestions for what I can tell him or should I just wait for the local people to contact me?

There is no talking in front of the group. You just listen to the stories of the presenting couples. All of the talking you will do will be with each other in the privacy of your hotel room. As for the religious aspect, it is minimal. The priest who attended our weekend was very liberal, told a lot of very funny jokes and was very easy-going. My H and I had lunch with him one afternoon during the weekend and found him to be a very interesting, funny and intelligent man. My H is not religious in the least but he thought Retrovaille was an excellent program and he was not bothered in the least by the minimal religious aspects.

Also, as I mentioned 25's post helped (will try to find the one I'm referring to) but on D-day my H was pretty desperate to save the M. I was so shell-shocked that if he hadn't taken the reins, I don't know if we would have made our weekend as it was about 5 weeks after D-day. But H scrambled to get us registered pretty quickly. Keep in mind though, this is the same man that was acting like a huge jerk and a vacillating emotionally unstable wingnut for months and only days prior so convincing your H now should be a cake-walk.

Endeavor, what were some of the questions that you asked, if you don't mind me being nosy? I have SO many it's a little overwhelming. I know from being a T that you have to be careful how you ask questions especially questions that start with "why". And I feel that's the majority of my questions currently. Why her? Why then? Why did you lie? Why did you hide? Why didn't you talk to me? Why, why, why?

I got a lot of questions from the book, "Not Just Friends" and from other sources online, books, etc.

The key ones for me were:


What did you say to yourself that gave you permission to get involved? What led to the affair? How did you feel about me before the A? During?
Did you feel guilty?
How could it go on so long if you knew it was wrong?
What did you share about us? What did you talk about?
What did you tell ow to make her believe it was okay to get involved with you? Did she even care that you were married or hesitate to get involved?
What did she do for you that I didn't? What emotional needs did she meet?
What did you like about her? Dislike about her?
What did you like about yourself in the affair? How were you different?
Were your feelings for her real?
When did you know it was over?
Did you blame me for your A?
Why would you never have an A again? What did you learn?
Do you have strong boundaries around women?

Keep in mind these questions were not asked all at once but spread over months. We would talk about the A, but we also would have bonding time during which the A was off-limits.

Some books recommend talking about the betrayal until it becomes an non-issue. It's all talked out and then you put it behind you. Others recommend asking all the questions you have in one or two sessions and then NEVER speaking of it again. I felt too much pressure by the one or two session thing because I could only think of a question here and there. A week would go by and another question would pop up. Sometimes I'd wait until I had a few written down before I would ask to talk about it, or I'd sit on the question for a few days and then decide it wasn't that important after all.

I did not ask questions that would trigger me. Like what kind of car did she drive, her personal style, what restaurants they went to, etc. For instance, I don't need to think of the fool and possibly drive off the road every time I see the kind of car she drives on the highway.

Hope that helps. An EA or whatever he had with that foolish woman is less involved than what I'm dealing with...But I do know from reading, that betrayal in an M is betrayal. And it's going to take sometime to rebuild the trust. Sadly, trust takes years to earn and seconds to destroy.