I guess I can be here now

[25yearsmlc]

Brilliant post Endeavor...

I wondered how you two were doing. Did you go to Retrovaille?

Previously, we had attended other workshops, or marriage encounters years ago. Some were mediocre, some had blindingly obvious "insights", or pricey new age jargon that was like word salad if you really looked...But a few were quite profound.

Retrovaille can be skimmed by couples who want to avoid the real work, but if you go there and open yourself to it, it CAN work near miracles. We got a lot out of it, and so yes, I recommend it. Of course you need two people to go. I have heard of the rare time when a spouse leaves early but no one leaves worse off.

The guiding couples at our Retrovaille retreat had been through HELL and yet they were there, together as couples really valuing their marriage. The problems they had before, made our marriage problems pale in comparison.

I kept thinking
"OMG if THEY can get thru THAT (like facing the death of a child AND bankruptcy)...then we need to STFU and cope better..."

H & I were both grateful and more hopeful about our relatively minor problems. To see couples who faced major crises like those in their lives, and were still there together, and seemed committed to their m's, really energized us.

MAY--- any chance you & H could attend Retrovaille? Though you can find non-denominational ones, ours was Catholic but you'd not really know it. yes there was a priest physically present but he spoke a total of maybe 30 min in the whole weekend and it wasn't "Catholic" it was more about setting up private time with him IF you were upset with the Church or organized religion.
(I respected him for that).

But if the word Catholic bothers you or your h, then find a non-denominational one. Retrovaille people "get" that shoving religious views down someone's throat usually does not help m's in crisis. They're not stupid.

WHY GO NOW? B/C May, As angry as you are atm, it may help you later in calmer times to know you left no stone unturned, and that you did right by your d.


Do you recall that "Essential Experience" workshop I suggested for YOU in particular, earlier? 2 peeps from here have attended and a 3rd one is going this month. Both said they loved it, & gained clarity to make a real action plan for their lives, that they lacked before.

My bff from high school is a t, and she loved it and said it'll become part of her counselling services. (So Hey, it's tax deductible for you!)

WHY GO NOW? B/c it only takes YOU to go, and you do have stuff that is yours and yours only, which affects your m. AND

B/C I think you are ripe for a breakthrough, but you need the real life support of fair & healthy people, to make that happen. Hence the presistent suggestion.

Plus, the need for more than one hour at a time to make the progress you want and to keep the focus on YOU and your stuff. It's more efficient for sure.

(I don't want to sound like an Amways salesperson, so I'll just finish by saying there are no magical gurus or trendy new tricks. Unlike some of the other workshops I've attended, (e.g., Landmark, est, Imgao)

the EE conductors are very well educated/qualified. They've studied everything from Carl Rogers & Carl Jung, from Virginia Satir to Maslow, from Gestalt to the behavioralists. Their structured process is nothing short of brilliant, imo.

And EE is not pricey & they don't pressure you for more money "For the next level". It's a safe supportive real life environment for you to do your work in.
I swear May, I wish I could just send you - b/c you deserve the breakthroughs you seek).

Meanwhile, you asked HOW to let go of anger or begin to forgive.


I can only say what helped me. Like you w/your h, I cognitively believed that H had wronged me and the kids and in more than one way. Here are a few things that come to mind atm, that helped me.

The first is the example I grew up with, like you have, that showed me what NOT to do.

We had neighbors where I grew up, including an Army COL and his w and 5 kids. He had been a POW in Vietnam and I assume he had some stories I would have liked to hear. I didn't get to hear them though, b/c whenever I asked about them or anything from his life, his w would interrupt us. I assumed she did this to protect him. I was wrong.

He had had an affair a few years before they moved onto our street. How did I know that, when I was just a teenager?

B/C we all knew b/c the wife made sure she "leaked" it out.

All of her children (4 girls and 1 boy) knew too. The boy is twice divorced. We dated in high school. He was handsome, smart and kind. He went to Harvard and earned big bucks. So yes I do wonder why he's had such bad luck.

ALL the d's are single now...all 4 girls are divorced or never married...May what are the odds??

The neighbor & "long suffering wife" was a Radcliff grad. She knew she had the "right" to be hurt/mad. I assume she had no role model for forgiveness.

What she didn't realize is the damage SHE was doing to her children & her life.

But from where I sat, years later, all I saw was a bitter angry woman who never let anyone admire or openly love her h. I preferred HIM to her and so did their kids...but how conflicted they must have been.

That woman never let go of the fact that he had deeply hurt her and she did NOT make an attempt to warm the bed for him to return either. She chose to stay and be miserable in her anger.

I knew as a teenager that her choice (Stay Married and Stay Mad) had to have been the worst one to make... for her, for him, for the kids...

Bear that in mind when you contemplate your mother's example, and her and your aunt's lives -

and how you MIGHT be repeating that for your d, if you stay married AND stay angry...so

Either you stay & learn to cope and let it go, OR you leave him

and learn to cope and let it go...

see the commonality? Either way, you learn to cope better and let it go.

You do not get to hold this over his head forever, like the sword of Damacles.

You don't get to throw it in his face every time you are angry, or hit him every time a memory resurfaces in you, or when you think you "should" be angry...

You don't get to pass this on as your legacy to your d...INSTEAD

you get to break the cycle for her and for you...more later on how.

And we'll address the lying too. For now I'll pass on one comment the priest who married us, made. He said:

"Deceit is never heatlhy for a m, but neither is giving your spouse a reason to deceive by how you react to bad news. If your w dents the car and you just blast her for it, you can expect that the next time it happens she'll get it fixed and maybe never mention it to you...b/c of the way you reacted the first time OR how she expects you to react. Would she really be so wrong?"

May, knowing what NOT to do and what NOT to act like, helped me.

I think it's a start.