Thanks for your concern, guys. I'll talk to my IC about it. It's not to the point where I'm extremely concerned about it (it's weird... it's like there are two people inside me. The T me, and the me-me. The T me sees when there is major cause for concern. It's not there yet, but we're approaching a line that needs to be dealt with in a more serious manner). I promise I will call my doctor by the end of the month if I'm still having these thoughts (I'd really rather not up my medication if possible).
I like the idea of setting a time limit on my anger. I've never viewed it that way before. well It's a goal to work toward with an internal deadline in it. WithIn your timeline you work on processing the anger so you can let it go.
No one is asking you to repress it. But you can't just hit people either.
And You can always "re-set" it if you are not ready to let go - but it's a start.
I forget who brought it up (25, maybe?), but someone asked how my mother dealt with my father's affair and the resulting divorce. Not well. Not well at all. Forgiveness is not her forte. My father is one of the most forgiving people on the planet. My mother is not. She's gotten a lot better, but even now, more than 10 years later, every now and then something will crop up where I think "really? you're still pissed about that?" So, yeah, never really had a good example of how to get over something like that (not that it's an excuse, but someone asked, so there's the answer).
I asked b/c I know that forgiveness was not something I grew up seeing and so I didn't know what it looked like. I really Don't think my father ever apologized for anything
until he was on his death bed. Then, he had deep remorse. But my mom could not muster up real forgiveness (though she mouthed it to him at the time).
For ME and my siblings (who'd been in T and worked on it), my father expressing remorse and asking for our forgiveness
was actually a watershed, and "Holy" moment in my life and the lives of my siblings. If you never saw it growing up, as I didn't, it was something I had to learn to do. And it's essential in dealing with the anger,
especially when we feel or cognitively believe -that our anger is justified. Ok, so how do I learn to do it? Especially when, like you said, it's cognitively justified? I know what he did is f*cked up. Everyone I've told this too agrees (and usually in a much stronger tone than me), so.... what now?[/color]
10 years is a LONG time to be pissed off. And then I think of my aunt, who's in her 70s, and I swear she is more angry with my grandmother (who, to my aunt's credit, was a terrible mother and a real looney) now that she's dead (and been dead since 2006) than she was when she was alive. She's still pissed about things that happened when she was a teenager. 50+ years is a REALLY LONG time to be pissed off. There are better things to do with one's time... well it's clear you need NEW role models for handling anger and learning forgiveness, ...seriously...and are any of those women happy? Content?
OR seething or bitter, etc...permanent victimhood is not what you want and you already know it, which is a start.Yes, it was a nice eye opening experience for me to see that. Unfortunate for my mother and aunt, but at least I've learned (or am trying to learn, however you want to put it) from it. [/color]
I'm not sure what a good time limit is. There's a part of me that fears that once I've given up my anger, and I've come to terms with it, that I will find something new, something worse, and then I will be retraumatized all over again. I almost think it's better to already be in a bad place and hear more bad news and already be in that "well, this situation just generally blows" mindset rather than get my hopes up that this relationship is back on track and have it all blown out of the water again.
^^^It's NOT better. That's a myth and It's negative thinking with the idea that somehow you are "protecting" yourself by assuming the worst. It's really not very rational (you think that having hope for the m somehow increases the chances of something bad happening? Why? B/c God doesn't want you to be happy? B/c you don't deserve it? OR B/C you never saw your mom get over her pain?
AND
it's a big drag to experience b/c you won't "take the risk" of feeling happy (gee that's fun AND healthy for your d...b/c hey, YOU grew up with it...stop the cycle for your d)
AND worst of all, the negativity can create the very event you fear...
I guess I should clarify. I don't mean to just... stay depressed and ergo I can't be "re-depressed". It's not like I'm looking to channel Eeyore. I think my problem is, is that once I'm done being angry with someone, I have been reoffended again and again. And really the only way I can stop being angry with someone is if I stop having any expectations for them, and stop investing any emotions in them. For example, I've really stopped giving two craps about my step-brother (who again has relapsed on heroin). I don't wish him ill-will. It would be nice if he were to eventually get better. But I have no expectations for him to remain sober and I have no invested interest in his recovery process (he relapsed in January and I've not spoken to him once since then). Even with some of the parents of my students, I've learned to expect very little of them. Some parents are great, others a reliably awful. It doesn't upset me when those parents are awful, because I anticipate them to be so. It just is what it is. While this works just fine for our relationship, I can't very well have this mindset with a spouse. I feel like you can't have ZERO expectations with your spouse. I feel like unless I don't hold him accountable for anything, he will continually disappoint me. So.... I'm having a hard time letting go of the anger because... I'm afraid if I let go of that, I will probably have emotionally completely let go of H. Is it unrealistic to set my anger timeline on an event rather than a date? Like, for example, I've never said I wanted baby number 2 at a certain time or a certain date. For me, it's about a milestone (D1 has to be potty trained and follow really basic 1 step instructions reliably). If I had to put an amount of time on how angry I'll be about the stuff that has already happened, I'll say a month. For clarity, we'll say D's birthday.
Are you seriously considering having another child w/this man, at this time?No, no, no, no, no. Sorry, that example was just for outlining how I often define timelines in my head by events and not chronicle dates.[/color]
HOWEVER, what do I do when NEW things piss me off (for example, him saying in the past 2 weeks that these past few months were "just trying" and not the real deal)? Because I feel like every time I'm starting to get to the end of being angry, he does some new dumba$$ thing again and then I'm retriggered.
is it possible you have too many triggers? Or that they are too easily pulled? The main trigger for me is lies. Any and all form of lies. Including lies to oneself. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't understand denial. I think it's ridiculous. And I really can't think of too many things outside of lying that H has done that sets me off.[/color]
There's been a nice moment of clarity out of all of this recent episode. I've decided that I sincerely do not care where H is or what he is doing or who he is with. If he cheats on me again (emotional, physical or otherwise), I'm done. Out. Finished. And seeing as my whole freaking life is observing behavior, I think I'll know pretty darn quick when something is fishy. And then it won't be hard to find out. And then I'll be done. So it's nice to know that if this situation occurs again, I don't have the whole "oh my God what do I do with this information" aspect to it. I already know. I'll be out.
I kind of agree with this^^ IF you don't project negativity into your interactions.
I know that on one hand, DBing is a way of life, holding yourself accountable and really choosing your battles...
but OTOH, I also know that if my h were to experience another round of MLC or whatever it was, or if there were an affair, I'd be done and not look back b/c there are some protective boundaries I have and need.
I find that feels safer to me and MAYBE a tad "empowering" (not sure if that's the word I want, but for now it'll do).
But I'm more & more optimistic about our future, and I let a lot more slide b/c most of the stuff I whined about was me sweating the small stuff b/c most of it IS SMALL...not worth conflict.
There will always be annoying things in each of us. Somehow I'm more able to see those traits in my h as idiosyncrasies/eccentricities, rather than flaws. And he seems to be doing that with me more too.
I won't say it's "unconditional love" b/c we all have some conditions...if our partner treats us badly enough for long enough, WE LEAVE...
H tried to complain about some trivial BS last night. I fixed his complaints within an hour and then he was like, "well... that's great... and... thanks for that...." and realized he didn't have a leg to stand on.
why bother interacting like that^^ at all? Why engage in it if it's silly?
I mean were you doing something significantly bad, dangerous, annoying, mean, damaging, etc?? May, it just sounds like a lot of score keeping and that is a big drain... I'm just trying to take as much wind out of his sails as possible for him to realize his "big complaints" are ridiculous. I'm not trying to earn "points" per se, but just trying to prevent myself from being blamed. Notice the pattern of avoiding blame? It's a big thing for me. If I need to own it, I will, but I refuse to be blamed for crap that is not my fault. Is it my fault my thesis is late? Yes. Is it my fault that H is now "doubting" how much he wants to be in the marriage? Yes, he's doing this because of my anger. But that's why it infuriates me when he says straight up crap like "we never go on dates". Fool, yes we do, I know we do, because I plan and pay for them!
After D went to bed I said, "I'd like to run some errands without her. I'm going to the grocery store" and then stayed out for 2 hours. I mean, I did run errands, and it was easier without D, but really it was just to be alone and without any time limits or real responsibilities.
I'm not wearing my wedding ring. I purposefully put it next to his cologne. This is kind of big for me. I wore a ring through everything last year. As a sign of me not giving up. I'm trying to make a very strong statement that I am not ok at all with his current actions. He is aware of me not wearing it.
Not sure why you can't just say that you are not happy with his current actions. Surely he knows that by now. What is your real point here? That you will leave him IF HE doesn't shape up? I feel like I've said it over and over and over again, and he doesn't seem to be getting it. And yes, I think that is the point. I'm not going to be his scapegoat anymore. When he can take some ownership and participate in the marriage and WANT me to be his wife, I feel comfortable wearing that ring. Based on the BS he's been spewing in MC, he doesn't know if he "wants" to be married anymore. Fine, then I don't think I should wear the ring if he's going to throw that around. I don't take that "threat" lightly. And at this point, I don't think he genuinely feels that way, I feel like it's a manipulation tactic. I've not told him I love him in several days. It's not been hard. Not like it was last year. [/b][/color] And the point in withholding your love or expressions of it is what? To make him miss the relationship that isn't loving? I mean, May...you know better.I'm not saying it because... at this point, I'm very much not feeling it. It's not to influence him in anyway. I just... don't feel it.
you still have not answered that question about what is different now than in November, substantively...not when you found out but when it happened... For me... it's about having been duped. I really, honestly believed that OW was not really an OW. More of just a friendship where lines were a little too blurred and she meant nothing to him. And from what I gathered from thos conversations and from previous evidence that I rationalized, I'm having a very hard time believing that there was no PA. And if there was a PA, I'm done. Out. It is a total and complete deal breaker for me. Even if it's over and done with. I cannot be with someone who has done that to me. I don't know how he feels. I try not to concern himself too much with it. I know if I were him, I'd be thinking "she's giving me mixed signals... she takes care of things she knows I care about, but then she doesn't tell me she loves me, and she doesn't wear her ring". Really, I'm uninterested in helping more with keeping the marriage a float until he does the following things:
1. Get a physical with testosterone levels. 2. Take those additional personality tests that our MC recommended what will YOU do if he gets a diagnosis? What is this for? You think HE will do something to work on it IF a diagnosis is given? AND If Not? H believes in the power of expertise. If someone were to tell him, "look, you are clinically depressed based on these results" then he would probably listen and take action. I will then support him in whatever way he needs support to get the help that he needs be it IC, meds, whatever. If no diagnosis is given... then maybe it is time for me to leave. I don't want to do this "I love you. No I don't" thing anymore. 3. Start seeing an IC again. 4. Give me real, measurable, objective goals for finances and health.
May I assume YOU would have to buy into the goals?
And is this b/c you want to disarm his arsenal b/c deep down, you fear he'll never think you are good enough and you want to make sure that this will "prove" it's HIM, not you? Exactly. I want to prove that it is him and that he is making himself miserable. That he could have the most "perfect" woman in the world and still be miserable. That he chooses not to be happy, even when everything measures up to his standards. And then where does he go? If everything on his "perfect" list is checked off, but he's still miserable, he's got to come to the conclusion, "hm, maybe the list maker is the thing that's f*cked up and not the list"
Until then, I'm just going to do my thing the best I can. I have a draft for my thesis due tomorrow (which is SO not ready). I have an ARD for a student on Monday (which is SO not ready). We're still living out of boxes and I need to start figuring out what I'm doing for D's birthday. We're supposed to notify our apt in 2 weeks if we plan to stay longer or move out. That can be H's decision. I'm not making that call.
So on to something better... my D. :-) She's sassy and smart, but very sweet. Very happy. She's got strawberry blonde hair and steel blue eyes. She's been taking steps since Valentine's, but only in the past 3 weeks has she really taken off. She knows about 15 words, and some really easy sign language (more, finished, no, potty). She sprouted 4 teeth this weekend (which was a relief... up to that point she only had 1!). She's an excellent sleeper still and loves ALL food except for avocados. She even loves pickles and mustard! She's dramatic. When she's disappointed she throws her head back and arches her back with her arms up to fall to the ground and wails. I ignore her and then she quickly recovers. She screams with delight when she sees stuffed animals (she thought the Easter bunny was the best thing EVER). And she insists on sneaking French kisses from the dog when she thinks I'm not looking. She only watches PBS for TV and LOVES Sesame Street, so I think I'm going to do that as the theme for her birthday party. I think she'll love it.
Alright, I better work on that draft that will so not be ready by tomorrow....
