the path is the goal...

[zig]

thanks cat, for your reply

They don't intentionally want to hurt us. However, I believe that when they feel (have the impression) that we are hanging on even a little, they go into fight mode in order to push us further away

so, my saying that i preferred to see us work it out, he sees as hanging on?

should i start saying i don't? or not say anything at all

this is like a mind game of the first order!!

i actually am beginning to think/sense, that even though he is doing all of this, on some level he is actually hurt that i have practiced a bit of apathy and indifference and am NOT begging him to come back.

a catch 22 of the biggest order.

so what's the solution? don't say anything and move forward?

stick to what i said and move forward"

i'm definitely moving forward - any movement for me is better than no movement, and i'm focusing on that.

i have read quite a bit from the mlc forum and archives - and it's like reading about him - and i see what he's doing and where he's at and it's almost fascinating on some level. reading all that has helped me so much to realize what have to do, and how little this has to do with me really.

i can see how my role pushed him towards this, but after he took the conscious decision to move away, it has not been about me, any longer. i wish so much i had found this site right in the beginning- but i found it when i did, and that's good.

thank you so much for all your insight cat04 - it is precious info that i can really do with

i hope you are having a good day too - i am doing well:)
zig

[zig]

I think you are coming to a resting place. It may not be a permanent resting place but it will do for now.

i do believe i am, labug - and it feels more real, in a different way. and it's true - separate paths.

the trick for me right now, is to catch myself right away when i start thinking about h or the sitch or what he said/did etc etc. and STOP IT right away and turn my focus to something else.

i'm also telling myself (when i start worrying or thinking about how i am going to deal with this or that with him), to just trust that i will know what the right thing to do or say is in the moment when it's needed.

as KD said - i need to be myself - and trust that who i am is enough. that is what he was attracted to at first, and i believe that is what is making him so conflicted now. he maybe screaming and shouting right now, but i can sense the conflict even stronger

[zig]

i haven't replied to you yet KD, because sadly i don't know if i can answer your question - i showed so much that i was unhappy, that i think h has never felt that he made me happy.

now when i woke up - and realized that no mater what is going on in my life, i can still feel happiness - he sees it that i only became happy after he left.

i think he is hurt and twisted about that - that he couldn't make me happy.

on the other hand - i don't ever remember feeling that i made him happy - ever either - i think we both felt that in the beginning, but things got so messy with me getting pregnant etc.

so that question has made me feel sad - it's a very sad answer

i mean, i know that we made each other temporarily happy doing things for each other - but we were always falling back into the arguing and fighting in between - there wasn't contentment between us.

i want to talk to you some more about the double bind, and ow to help myself get out of it - now that i know it can exist i am seeing it more and more clearly

but first to work

thanks again KD

zig

[~ kd ~]

So... go back to the beginning... when you think maybe you DID make each other happy... unless you think he married you because he was unhappy with you...

Perhaps he was really looking forward to a life of unhappy... what do I know... ?

Let's just wipe away all that extra stuff you said about being the "reasons" why the two of you did not stay happy... srsly...

Because you believe you KNOW better than that... that those are just reasons... because happiness comes from within...

And your man... he was probably really happy when you had that flat tire on the freeway and he had to come rescue you...

Cause guys are daft that way...

At least, he WOULD have been happy had you been all distraught, and he came along and fixed the tire and saved the day (well, for that moment, anyhow) and you jumped all up and down and said with a beaming smile, "Oh love! You are my hero!" and gave him a great smooch and a pat on the rump...

THAT would have made him happy... I am absolutely sure of it...



So... can you remember any time like that?

Again, I can say with certainty... if he made you happy... he was happy... especially if he knew the reward... at a later date... was a little sumfin sumfin...

[zig]

ow, ow, ow - it hurts right now to think of all that - it's like i can't go there in my mind today - it's because i am trying to move away from it all i guess.

i've let go of him - i'm still going to db - but i've let go, i'm ok if he doesn't come back - at least right now.

as for giving him something later - [censored], KD that's where i messed up - he was always trying to make me happy in the way he knew how to and i was always bitchin' - at least that's what i think - i'm not even sure right now. all i know is that it was the same the other way around too.

i need to process this for a bit here - i don't know if i'm pulling away because the big D word got yelled, or because i finally got it - he's not coming back right now, maybe never and i HAVE to be ok this time around - i just HAVE to.

i wonder if your questions are trying to lead me towards being aware of what could make him feel good - what i could do to make him feel good? well , right now i just don't know, do i? i obviously didn't get it right before. it was all about the sex - you know that whole thing - his lack of physical intimacy, my lack of emotional connection - the classic thing plus a heavy dose of dealing with the movement disorder and how that affected his own masculinity.

i pointed that out to him the other day - in the context of pointing out that in my healing of what i'd dealt with with the abuse, i needed him to be aware that it was not acceptable to me that he used my sexual abuse as the reason for less sex (my ex did the same thing)- it had more to do with the lack of emotional connection that i felt with him.

i also told him that i didn't understand until now, that physical connection came first for a man, and that we had been in the classic catch 22 sitch with these elements going around and around.

ah [censored] - we messed up so much, that right now i can't even think about it

i'd rather talk about how i had this great afternoon with getting my postcard designed for my little sale that's happening next friday downtown, in one of the stores - and it's suddenly all real and going to happen.

i made it through another difficult patch where i came out good on the other side of it, and i am really focusing only on myself here - really redirecting my thoughts every time i think about this sitch and h.

i know something has changed in me in these last few days as i let go - s is responding in a totally different way with me - he just seems more open and relaxed. i know it's mid week and he always settles in by now - but there seems to be less resistance

a thought - it's always when we scream and shout too much about something, that it makes others think - oh this person is protesting too much - almost as if they have to convince themselves.

i've been saying that about h for a long time now - it feels like he's trying to convince himself more than he's trying to convince me

and then it finally hit me today - oh shite, i'm doing this too - i am protesting and fighting this sitch with my heart and soul - am i trying to convince myself? the relief that i could completely give up any resistance to it and just BE, and be completely okay where i am - oh the thought of that relief overpowers anything else right now.

all these months i've been wailing - i wish he would give me a break - and now, finally i get it - i'm giving myself a break and just stopping the resistance to it all. like i told him - i'm not going to help him do what he's doing - just going to be okay with it within myself.whatever happens happens

so i'll read this post of yours again in a couple of days, and see if i can answer it differently:)

thanks KD - you really know how to push the right buttons!!

hope you're well
zig

[labug]

If you read back through my posts, I've written that it seems I go through those really rough patches but come out of the other side so much stronger. Just a part of the process, I guess.

So excited for your sale!

[zig]

thanks labug - seems like i'm doing the same - rough patches to realizations to the next rough patch

i'm excited, and nervous about the sale - over 5 years since i was "out there" with my work.

h offered to take some postcards and put them in the faculty mailboxes up at the university - can't decide if i should take up the offer or not. saying no - he will take it as me being mad at him for what he said - saying yes will be just letting go.

i just want to let go of the whole thing - just can't stand it anymore, all the second guessing, etc

you sound better from your last post - i'm glad.

we just keep standing up and keeping on going...

zig

[ces67]

What's the old saying? "fall down 7times. Stand up 8 times."

[~ kd ~]

you know how on a really windy day and you're walking into it... and all of a sudden, the wind just stops... and you fall... or almost fall...

yeah... that's what happens when resistance stops... we stumble... we fall... and like ces says... we get up, again...

We think don't know what we want, but we think we know what we DO NOT want... so when we finally get what we think we want... we stumble... and wonder if it really is what we want...

How am I doing? IDK... I think I finally got what I THOUGHT I wanted... and the silence is deafening...

But I did want it... now I just have to learn how to walk again, now that the wind isn't blowing... and appreciate what I have...

Be well!

[cat04]

Zig,

Is it possible that your lack of emotional connection with your H has more to do with the abuse and the actual act of sex than it has to do with your H?

I ask because we all have things that we think we have healed completly to find out that we really haven't. They still lay under the surface creating issues that we don't even associate to them.

You say that both your X and your H used the abuse as an excuse for less sex (if I am reading correctly) and I have to wonder if that is the case? Maybe you used it as the excuse for less sex?

In cases of abuse, while men try very hard to empathize with what a woman/child went through, they also have a hard time understanding how it is then translated to them and why it affects them. They didn't hurt you. And men have egos. Regardless of the brave front they put up, they do get effected by rejection. They do take it personally sometimes. Because sometimes what we know and what we feel are two very different things.

How am I doing? IDK... I think I finally got what I THOUGHT I wanted... and the silence is deafening...

But I did want it... now I just have to learn how to walk again, now that the wind isn't blowing... and appreciate what I have...

It is so much easier to define what we don't want in our lives because we can usually see it much clearer.

So getting what you thought you wanted is now making you question if you really wanted it?

While normal, very normal in fact, it is also a good reason to try to have as clear a picture as possible of what, in fact, you DO want. So that when you get there, you have something to measure it by and the adjustment is that much easier.