All I'm saying is that many a times a frigid wife has been turned on by an unlikely stranger who was able to turn on the spark after years of the husband failing.
I think that's a Hollywood scenario that does not really happen in real life, or if it does it's the extreme exception. There is tons of infidelity reported on this board -- I challenge you to find one example where an LD wife of an HD husband became HD with a different man.
I believe you will find examples where an HD wife was frustrated with the sex and may have been *acting* LD, but I doubt in that case she would classify herself as LD, but rather as frustrated.
In my opinion, the infidelity reported on this board seems to be the result of the entire landscape of the relationship coupled with an opportunity presented to the WAS (perhaps due to their instigation), versus just due to a sexual issue. In fact, if sex is the ONLY issue, people seem hesitant to blow up the rest of the relationship on that basis alone.
Originally Posted By: greenblue90
Yet I think that it happens enough that any husband in an ssm should be asking themselves, is it that she doesn't want sex, or is it me?
I think it is valuable to ask "what can I do to become more attractive sexually or otherwise" and to act on that, there is no question. I do think it is misleading to assume that your action will *change* your partner's sexual desire -- that seems far from guaranteed. You may get a defensive behavior change, but as discussed elsewhere I don't believe that's the result an HD partner is really looking for.
Originally Posted By: Greenblue90
Divorce is an option, an ugly, dangerous, option but it's there.
As for what I'm saying it's just another avenue to consider.
Granted. I think being on the "Divorce Busting" website would tend to discourage divorce as a solution, but it is certainly an option, and I am sure that people involved in an SSM have given it serious consideration.
WRT "caveman theory" and MMSLP, we need to be wary of "To the man with a hammer, every problem is a nail"
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I agree with Accuray. It's not a matter of "seduction". There are many issues - mental, emotional, etc. that come into play when you're with a longtime partner. If there's something wrong in those areas, it doesn't matter if you're Cassanova.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Given how long my marriage has been sexless, I would actually find a poignantly refreshing side to discovering that my wife had had a torrid sexual affair with another man. At least then I'd know I'm dealing with a very different problem and I would be able to ask her a whole lot of different questions. In fact, I even joke with her about it sometimes (that if she's not doing it with me, she must be doing it with someone else), but she just rolls her eyes. As if I can't stop thinking about sex, no matter what the angle is.
And, yes, in our case, sex is really the only big issue, and we are both very hesitant to blow up everything just because that one thing doesn't work.
We all know that a divorce or an affair will work. Doesn't even need mentioning. Like I can guarantee you I can immediately repair your car by buying a new one.
Yet I think that it happens enough that any husband in an ssm should be asking themselves, is it that she doesn't want sex, or is it me?
Well, that just invites the same question in reverse: It happens enough with a husband in an SSM that he goes out and easily seduces another woman. So the problem is with his wife, not him, right?
It's often not that simple.
Quote:
Because after all the only thing you can fix is yourself.
So if, as sometimes happens, both the wife and the husband go outside the marriage and easily have sex, then the problem is with neither of them? So you can see where this logic doesn't include everything. It's the relationship that can be dysfunctional, or mismatched, not necessarily either individual.
Yes, 25yearsmlc, it is a big problem. And yes we're happy otherwise. Yes, it needs work, but not sure what to do at this point, as virtually anything is a repeat. Not that I don't do it, like going on nice vacations and bringing flowers and complimenting her, etc. Things I would do regardless. But it's not resulting in sex, ever. That's all I'm saying.
The only thing I would reject at this point is drama like moving out and back in to make a point, etc.
And I don't need permission from anybody to have an affair if that's what I want to do.
I agree with Accuray. It's not a matter of "seduction". There are many issues - mental, emotional, etc. that come into play when you're with a longtime partner. If there's something wrong in those areas, it doesn't matter if you're Cassanova.
I get what you are saying Bond. IT can be very complex AND There's no question some people, (usually women), just do not place enough value on sexual intimacy in a marriage.
Accuray, I have read a lot of your thread. You've said too many insightful self aware comments for me to believe you are a selfish man and that you are "THE" problem. I truly feel for you. I hope you two can somehow overcome this difficult time.
But OTOH, I do have a brother who wanted out of his marriage, (unbeknownst to the rest of us). We all loved his wife. She was beautiful smart, warm AND hilarious. Apparently she wasn't crazy about one sided love making.
All we knew was that He began saying things about his wife that were pretty unflattering, although all of it had to do with their sex life. He first implied and then SAID she was "frigid" -that she never had an "O", and he implied that some sort of sex abuse had occurred in her childhood. He over shared, to be honest. BUT THEN it Turned out none of it was true. (Which is both crappy AND weird).
They divorced, per his request, and he did not do as well in his single life as I guess he expected...
anyhow, my former sil remarried and she has a great sex life w/a handsome guy who is in shape. They are very romantic together and I can tell you I NEVER saw that with my brother. (She'd be shocked/humiliated to know what my brother said about her, but suffice to say our discussions are frank enough for me to realize he just flat out lied...)
I love my brother. But he's a better brother than husband.
He gained so much weight she probably wasn't that into it BUT I know she was willing b/c of comments she made at the time...but I think that rather than facing the reality that he wasn't great to her in bed,
or that he was/is "relationally challenged" --i.e., lazy when it comes to that type of thing - instead--he really maligned her.
This is anecdotal of course. I get that. But hey, I did see it and it made quite the impression.
I have several brothers. Of the men/brothers who've discussed their sex lives with me, I know that brother is different from most men.
What bothers me the most (well, other than not being loving enough to learn, IN bed)
is that he said such lousy things about her - instead of just saying he wanted his freedom. Maybe he knew we loved her a lot and that we'd argue for him to stay.
The good news is that she is much happier now than she ever would have been, with him. I only bring this up b/c it did make an impression on me and my mother said, at the time, a French saying that roughly translates into something like "there are no frigid women, only clumsy men." I KNOW That the saying is NOT accurate for all... I realize it unfairly blames men for problems that belong to some of their partners alone. I get that. But I also think it reflects my mother's time- and the belief of some men, that intercourse alone should suffice to satisfy all "normal" partners.
Acc- I truly hope you find the love/intimacy you want and deserve.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
"there are no frigid women, only clumsy men", LOL, yes I seem to remember you might have posted that before. And, yes, I do believe there is some truth in it in many cases. But are there any women who would see any truth or humor in the reverse, "there are no men with ED, only clumsy women".
"and the belief of some men, that intercourse alone should suffice to satisfy all 'normal' partners". LOL again, because in my case it's my wife who seems to believe that, not me. She has never let me try any sexual contact other than intercourse even though it's never given her an O.
You are also better at inserting the proper caveats I tend to forget putting in.
I guess I have a question for some of the guys that have "tried it all"
Do you believe you may some day get the sex life you want? Or have you totally given up.
If you've given up then I can understand that.
If you haven't then what's your next step?
For my part, I have given up. I realize that as long as I am in this marriage, it is highly likely that there will never be any sex for the remainder of this marriage. I made a promise to remain faithful, a promise I have kept and fully intend to keep.
I am living the life that is otherwise "comfortable" w/o sex. This is particularly poignant today since today marks 15 years since the last time I had sex with anyone (and that last time was with my wife).
So, no I do not believe that some day I'll "get" the sex life I want in this marriage. I had that sex life a long time ago, but no more.
Until a few years ago I was so resigned to this sexless life that I wouldn't really speak of it. Then a couple of things happened, but what got me thinking that maybe I had missed something, that I had not really "tried everything," was an article in a People magazine that someone brought to the beach on a beach vacation with out kids.
It was about 100 days of sex and the couple that had tried that and written a book (and the possibility of a movie) about the topic. The concept of the "2400 club" (100 days w/o sex or more than 2400 hours) got me thinking about my situation.
It also started me on my first steps towards weight reduction. From 1997 to 2007 my weight had gone from 189 pounds to a high in 2007 of 248 pounds.
I am now down to 180 pounds heading to a weight of around 175 pounds. For my age and height I am one pound above "normal" on the BMI scale (or 1 pound overweight). While the weight loss and my commitment to it has been noticed, it hasn't made any difference, otherwise.
So, at 12 noon today I can say the following:
15 year, or 5479 days, or 131496 hours.
But who is counting?
The Captain
Last sex: 04/06/1997 Last attempt: 11/11/1997 W Issues "No Means No" Declaration: 11/11/1997 W chooses to terminate sex 05/1998 I gained 60, then lost 85 pounds. Start running again (marathons)
