Registered: 11/19/10 Posts: 6588 That sounds really promising...I hope for you that you have a real hope for reconciliation. IMO it's less important why she is picking this timing - the important thing is that she is doing this for the right reasons and you are both ready to do the work. I think Retro is a really good idea if you are both serious about this. _________________________ me44 + Pookie, S8, D5
I'll make it all worthwhile, I'll make your heart smile ~ DM
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#95012 - 04/16/11 12:37 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: flowmom] bustorama Member
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 I keep pinching myself in disbelief when she says the 'we' and the future plans. I am so serious about wanting to recover our R and M. I am less concerned about the "why now's" so long as her desire to reconcile is sincere and sustained. Cautiously assessing whether it is.
Edited by bustorama (04/16/11 12:38 AM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#95015 - 04/16/11 12:40 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] flowmom Member
Registered: 11/19/10 Posts: 6588 Busto...I think this is where vet input is really needed. This is a critical stage where the LBS too often prematurely jumps at the chance to reconcile. You owe it to your children to make sure that this is for real and to not rush it. _________________________ me44 + Pookie, S8, D5
I'll make it all worthwhile, I'll make your heart smile ~ DM
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#95049 - 04/16/11 03:06 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] catperson Member
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 7915 Originally Posted By: bustorama You think I should just say, let's go slow and leave the girls out of stuff for at least a month? More like SIX months. Come on. Be an adult, ok?
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#95050 - 04/16/11 03:09 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] catperson Member
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 7915 Originally Posted By: bustorama I keep pinching myself in disbelief when she says the 'we' and the future plans. I am so serious about wanting to recover our R and M. I am less concerned about the "why now's" so long as her desire to reconcile is sincere and sustained. Cautiously assessing whether it is. What this tells ME is that you just dumped EVERYTHING - ALL your resolve - just because you have the chance of having her back in your bed again.
Shame on you.
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#95065 - 04/16/11 07:59 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson] bustorama Member
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Originally Posted By: catperson Originally Posted By: bustorama I keep pinching myself in disbelief when she says the 'we' and the future plans. I am so serious about wanting to recover our R and M. I am less concerned about the "why now's" so long as her desire to reconcile is sincere and sustained. Cautiously assessing whether it is. What this tells ME is that you just dumped EVERYTHING - ALL your resolve - just because you have the chance of having her back in your bed again.
Shame on you.
I think there is a disconnect between what I intended with what I wrote and your interpretation of it..
The part about me pinching myself is because her current behavior is so different from her previous behavior and was in affirmative response to flowmom saying that things sounded promising.
The part about being serious to recover -- I have been serious about recovering our R and M since the summer of 2009, nothing new there. I wrote that in response to something flowmom wrote where I perceived she was saying she hoped I had a real desire to reconcile and work to repair our M.
The boldfaced part about being less concerned about the "why nows" SO LONG AS....the part in boldface is critical. It is not an incidental, but a CONDITIONAL (SO LONG AS...). If she is sincerely and in a sustained way wanting to reconcile, why does it matter why now (in the short-term)??? For me, sincerely encompasses "honestly and for the right reasons" Sustained encompasses it not being some fleeting, waffling desire. The hard part, for me, is assessing this.
If you think my actions are ruled by getting someone into my bed, then I don't believe you understand the changes I've made or the discipline I've developed over the last year. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#95067 - 04/16/11 08:28 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] rob x Member
Registered: 11/12/10 Posts: 1383 if you want to date her, date her, have fun, you're an adult, what you guys do together is your business, I would limit the family time together though, and yes you're allowed to say "let's take this slow and not rush into anything and see what happens, I don't want to have high expectations about us and vice versa", even if she gets angry at hearing this, it's ok.
You're not easy, if she gets you back that easily, it will be much easier to leave you again.
As for her talk of dream homes and moving, you're not actually purchasing anything or moving anywhere right at this second but you don't have to be a killjoy, if she wants to ride that emotional high thinking of future things like that, let her, those are her thoughts and feelings, smile, tell her those are cool ideas, ask her questions where she does most of the talking and you just sit back and listen, it's really not that hard.
If you guys have sex, no big deal, don't be falling head over heels in love all over again, remember the idea of being tagged, if you're cognizant of it, it doesn't work but if you're clueless, you have a couple sessions with your wife and be totally emotionally invested and fall pretty hard if it doesn't work. Just be cool, if she wants a relationship, let her show you why, not the other way around.
As for the compliments about how smokin' hot she is (LOL!), slow down there big boy, don't be too eager, it's easy to read your poker hand that way and you want to be a little mysterious too, allow her to invest in you, the next time she calls out of the blue and feels like going for drinks or dinner, tell her "really? where are you taking me? take me to a good place and don't be cheap ;)" Allowing her to invest in you is a requirement, not an option. If she can't invest in you (time, effort and resources) then you have little to no value and she'll get tired/bored of you at the drop of a hat.
_________________________ “Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”
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#95069 - 04/16/11 08:38 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson] rob x Member
Registered: 11/12/10 Posts: 1383 Originally Posted By: catperson Originally Posted By: bustorama I keep pinching myself in disbelief when she says the 'we' and the future plans. I am so serious about wanting to recover our R and M. I am less concerned about the "why now's" so long as her desire to reconcile is sincere and sustained. Cautiously assessing whether it is. What this tells ME is that you just dumped EVERYTHING - ALL your resolve - just because you have the chance of having her back in your bed again.
Shame on you.
I don't know what happened here?
Why should he be ashamed?
I don't think he came out and said it but even he had said "hey I miss having sex with my wife", is that such a bad thing? I certainly don't think so. The physical relationship is just as important as any other part of their relationship if not even more important than the other parts - sex between a husband and wife is, dare I say it, required for a happy relationship - men & women are sexual beings - ignoring that/not acknowledging that part is foolish. _________________________ “Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”
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#95070 - 04/16/11 08:52 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x] TimeHeals Member
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 2324 Loc: Tennessee I'm with rob. You're basically back to dating.
You remember dating? The woman was always out ahead in the "planning the future together" stuff most likely, right?
Internally, you were always thinking, "Hmmm, we'll see" most likely, right?
It's the same thing. Proceed slowly. Date her. What else did you do back when you were dating?
_________________________ Your Time Perspective Can Heal Mend the broken, make strong the weak and vanquish the evil.
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#95092 - 04/16/11 11:08 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: TimeHeals] bustorama Member
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Kept living my life. Did my own thing and hung out with the guys too. Sometimes I would also date other women (though I stopped dating other women almost right away when I met my W). I don't think that would be the best idea in the current sitch anyway, and, like before, I don't feel like dating other women.
I do remember my W had us walking down the aisle WAY before I did. What's up with that anyway? Why is it the women are usually out ahead with the planning the future stuff when it comes to dating? _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#95104 - 04/16/11 11:34 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] flowmom Member
Registered: 11/19/10 Posts: 6588 Originally Posted By: bustorama I do remember my W had us walking down the aisle WAY before I did. What's up with that anyway? Why is it the women are usually out ahead with the planning the future stuff when it comes to dating? Most women invest far more of their brain real estate in their love lives than men do. Many women indulge "fast-forwarding to the future" fantasies as a result. I've always focused more on managing my expectations, but I can see how it happens. I think that Rob and TH are giving you good advice. Date, but keep your children out of it. You have to prove to one another that you have a viable relationship before involving your children -- just like if there was any new woman in your life (yeah, I know it's not the same). _________________________ me44 + Pookie, S8, D5
I'll make it all worthwhile, I'll make your heart smile ~ DM
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#95105 - 04/16/11 11:34 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] TimeHeals Member
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 2324 Loc: Tennessee Quote: Kept living my life. Did my own thing and hung out with the guys too.
You never planned any of the dates? Hard to believe. grin
Registered: 10/17/10 Posts: 4320 Loc: WI Originally Posted By: bustorama I do remember my W had us walking down the aisle WAY before I did. What's up with that anyway? Why is it the women are usually out ahead with the planning the future stuff when it comes to dating?
Dude, (I think) most women have been planning out getting married and their wedding day since they were little girls. (Ladies, correct me if I am wrong!) My X had her entire life timeline planned out. At this point in her life, she needed to be in a serious relationship. At this point, married. At this point (age), had to have kids. This is how my life is going to go and I am going to be in a state of bliss. Unrealistic expectations. Then, when things don't go as planned, I am unhappy. I haven't been happy for years. You never loved me. Blah, blah, blah. Maybe I am just too jaded, but this is how I see things in the aftermath.
I also think you are getting good advice. Date. Be nonchalant. Whatever happens is ok with you. I remember when X and I first started dating. We were in college and it was very casual. Let's hook up at such and such bar tonight. Then we would hop around, go to the dance bar late and back to someone's apartment for casual sex. Then it was, ok, see ya later. Maybe a few days would go by without contact. She left school before I did and I thought I relationship was over at that point and it didn't affect me at all.
Somewhere along the line I got committed and couldn't live without her. Now I am seen as needy and desperate and that killed all attraction, if there WAS any left anyway.
Make HER chase YOU. Make HER work for it. You don't care either way anymore. She has to MAKE YOU want it now. Your life is good on your own.
IDK. I still suck at this, but I do have a date tonight!
_________________________ Me45 D Final(sort of) 7/13/11
My life has been extraordinary, blessed and cursed at once. (Billy Corgan - Smashing Pumpkins)
Registered: 11/19/10 Posts: 6588 Originally Posted By: Danf Dude, (I think) most women have been planning out getting married and their wedding day since they were little girls. (Ladies, correct me if I am wrong!) LOL, I was planning to be an independent globe-trotting careerwoman for as long as possible grin _________________________ me44 + Pookie, S8, D5
I'll make it all worthwhile, I'll make your heart smile ~ DM
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#95185 - 04/16/11 06:01 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] rob x Member
Registered: 11/12/10 Posts: 1383 Originally Posted By: bustorama Kept living my life. Did my own thing and hung out with the guys too. Sometimes I would also date other women (though I stopped dating other women almost right away when I met my W). I don't think that would be the best idea in the current sitch anyway, and, like before, I don't feel like dating other women.
You don't think?!
Who said you were allowed independant thought?
Do what we tell you slave!!!
LOL!
You need to take a lesson from your own history book: - keep living your life and maintain your individuality - do your own thing - hang out with the guys - dare I say it, maybe go out a bit and experience the company of other women, call it a date, call it social interaction, how long have you been separated from your wife?
As for what you don't FEEL like doing... you didn't feel like making the required changes that were required originally, took you a while to warm up to the ideas but guess what, you eventually learned better and you did things you originally didn't FEEL like doing and life eventually got better for you.
Don't push the counseling, retro or anything, in fact don't bring it up anymore at all, let her bring up those ideas.
For now, just date, if it happens once a week or once every two weeks so be it but don't try to date more often than that, you've been apart for so long, rushing into things will bring undesired effects in this. Have fun, no relationship talk, take some time to build up your own confidence in this situation, look at her with different eyes instead of the lovesick puppy eyes. _________________________ “Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”
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#95586 - 04/18/11 10:00 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x] gr8 day 2b alive Member
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 1286 Loc: Brotherly Love Quote: For now, just date, if it happens once a week or once every two weeks so be it but don't try to date more often than that, you've been apart for so long, rushing into things will bring undesired effects in this. Have fun, no relationship talk, take some time to build up your own confidence in this situation, look at her with different eyes instead of the lovesick puppy eyes.
Busto, this above. One thing to add, let her ask YOU out on dates. I made the mistake of looking forward to the next date at the end of each date. Play it cool. If you have a good time one the first date then say it. But don't say we should do this again.
gr8 _________________________ Find a passion and pursue it.Fall in love.Dream Big.drink wine, eat good food and spend quality time with good friends.laugh everyday.tell stories. learn more. never give up. be grateful try new things be. happy. and above all, make every moment count.
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#95768 - 04/18/11 08:06 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: gr8 day 2b alive] LovingAnyway Board of Directors Treasurer Member
Registered: 08/05/10 Posts: 2214 Bustor,
I think your W is doing what she always has done--giving herself an emotional experience now for experiences she hasn't had. Dwelling in the future is fantasy and she's feeding on it, right now.
Before, when you guys separated, she was also feeding on it...telling herself stories of how it's not going to work, how you're not going to change, etc. She made her decisions based on those experiences she actually hadn't lived.
Will feel like mana from heaven, to hear her talk this way.
Understandable.
No more real than when she was talking the other way, 'k?
You might hear someone say, "Well, add that problem to the list" which indicates the person has a problem list. What they may not consider is that their biggest problem IS the list.
In your W's case, please consider.
She has an IC that your W said advised her to take a leave of absence and essentially, go into emotional rehab...that is a really strong indication that your W is really unstable right now. W has been in counseling awhile, correct? Several months? For this to be what she heard the IC advise, ask her to do, and not only is W not taking the advice she's paying a professional for, she's now turned her focus beam onto you and how you will be her cure.
Not healthy. Dangerous. Yes, her ultimate path of happiness is through you, the marriage and her intact family. How she gets there matters a lot. Because she can flip back to telling herself negative stories about you and again, devastate the family.
You know this, inside, you know this already.
The same thing that delights you can devastate you when it's used against you.
It's not a sign of anything...except that her attitude, her beliefs, were keeping you guys from recovery. Maybe you told yourself, if she changed her attitude and beliefs, then you guys could reconcile.
Not crazy...totally understandable. After all, you'd changed your attitude and beliefs after the online EA stuff. You really changed. And she left anyway.
Take that note--your actions are part of why she turned her beam onto you...not the whole. Most of it is her looking for an outside cure to what ails her, and that's not changed, 'k? Same thing, same outcome, eventually.
She changed her attitude by shifting away from negative thoughts of you (which excluded positive ones); and now has positive ones of you (which excludes negative ones). Same fantasy. And it's the fantasy that's the problem.
Her plan to save her marriage is required. Plans involve reality. Fantasy doesn't hold up to a plan.
Her emotional instability is her rock bottom...and without her getting to reality in that rock bottom--if you step in and save her from it...then you'll have to go through all this again, and again, and again.
Not what you want. Ever. This is a soul-crushing experience. You know that. So please take the advice to stop thinking about her stuff and stick to your own boundaries as your focus...for they truly will save you and the marriage.
Date, away from the kids...don't do the family together stuff because that will torment the kids if your W ends up hospitalized for a breakdown, and comes out ready to take on life with you as her crutch and captor.
Don't skip steps. Don't ignore your boundaries or give your enforcements a holiday, basing it on HER changes. That's what she's been doing for years with you...and you are doing her harm if you now focus on her and not your boundaries.
You are what's different and who does differently. I totally understand the inner gut feeling to have an MC involved...your W is in an emotionally volatile state. That's scary. You might be sucked into it yourself.
If you hear her talk with ownership...own what she did, why she did it and how and why she wouldn't do it again...as her own choices...not you making her feel she had no other choice...then you'll know she's up to making a plan. The absence of that is more fantasy...and you'll hear it...because what our thoughts think, our voice speaks, and so follow our actions. When it's fantasy in thoughts, know it for what it is.
LA _________________________ The Paradoxical Commandments
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Hey everyone. So appreciative of all the feedback. Touching base SUPER quickly cause I just got a huge TOMORROW deadline dropped on me and my group. Life goes on in the midst of all this, eh?
I haven't gotten into any R, MC, retro, "plan" talk with my W since I last posted. I did say that I thought we should take things slow and she agreed. I said I have to make a decision here too, you know. She said something the next day that, "You said you didnt like me anymore and you had to make a decision."
I'm still trying to get a sense from her actions and words of where she is coming from, what her motivation is, what her understanding of her own role in things is, and of her behavior and choices. She seems more now like the W I fell in love with and less the foreign W, but with a veneer/wall of fear still. Hopefully, she will choose to act lovingly despite those feelings.
She continues to reach out to me (calling me, txting me, suggesting we get together). On Saturday we hung out at our pool/gym, which is almost like a resort. That was nice cause the kids could be put in the day care while we hung out together for a couple of hours. We flirted with each other and had a good time in and out of the pool. She said I looked really fit, I said something like, maybe if you're lucky you can see how fit.
She said she wanted to go on a vacation with me, and I said where would your dream vacation be, and she said somewhere tropical like Bora Bora or I would settle for Palm Springs. I said something like yeah I haven't taken you anywhere hot with water in awhile, have I? Then she said she wanted to go to Vegas in Mandalay Bay that she loved it there (that's one of the places we stopped when we were first dating). So, I said yeah let's have a little getaway, and we are figuring out long weekend dates for that, probably next month.
I took her to this new little brunch places that does crepes and mimosas that she liked on Sunday AM. She suggested maybe we could go back there for mother's day? She also said she wanted to go to dinner with me at this Italian place she has had her eye on for awhile.
It's funny, Rob, I was looking through this old transcript of messages I had with her when we first started dating (I had it bound and gave it to her one Valentine's Day), and you can totally see the high value view in me then. I am alot better now than I was before and still getting back to there, the flirty, playful, high-value self-respect. I said stuff then like, so you want to hang out with me, huh, when are you gonna fly me up? Hmmm, my man [Bleep!] services might be available, for the right person, etc.
In addition to the phone/txt contact through the day and evening, there are some positive signs in her actions, she leans up against me for me to hug her, she has initiated a few kisses (nothing passionate yet tho) and hugs. I'm trying not to push that and let it come from her.
Something I am VERY happy to see is she seems more emotionally stable now. Much less crisis mode. I think some of that was wrapped up in her PMS-time and maybe the Lexapro is continuing to help her. I do not want to be the rescuer guy.
Our mutual friends have been helpful in that they have older daughters and they have "volunteered" their older daughters to babysit the girls. My oldest daughter is best friends with their youngest so it works out. And my 5 year old has a crush on their 6 year old boy, so she doesn't mind either, hehe. They live almost next door, so it is convenient and are friends with both me and W. They may be the only couple that has clearly remained friends with each of us.
I've been keeping up with work and exercise. I had a comedic drunk long run gone bad Saturday night, then a real 12 miler on Monday. I have another half mara coming up beginning of June so time to get cracking again.
We do have some "family" things anticipated coming up? One is Easter, W wants us to go to service and Easter brunch/egg hunting activities etc. together. Thoughts on that? W also seems to expect we will do Mother's Day together? Thoughts?
I haven't told my parents or sister about any of these developments. Superstitiously afraid of jinxing things or of getting their hopes up and then having them come crashing down, kind of like protecting the girls. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
