Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 OK, I haven't posted in awhile. Possibly big development in my sitch. Probably need urgent feedback!
W just called in tears saying she wanted her old life back, she wanted to come back, saying she had been doing alot of thinking and seeing things clearer since having a purging with her psychic (which also coincided with some strong actions on my part, perhaps not coincidentally).
I clarified with her, you want to come back? She said yeah. I said let's get together after lunch to talk about things.
Possible catalysts from my end is that I put divorce fully on the table in two conversations. First conversation was about 2 weeks ago, I told her, W, I would have preferred not to divorce, but this sitch is no longer working for me. It's time to start splitting everything up, etc. I was on the way to funeral and she started crying and not wanting to discuss. I agreed to postpone the talk another month while she got some shinola together at her end.
Fast forward a couple of weeks and she asks me if I will help her buy a new cell phone cause hers is broken. I say no. She says her lease renewal is signing up will I co-sign it for her again. I say no. All kinds of ranting and raving. I stayed calm and cool and said, sorry I won't do that. It's the reality of people divorcing. To talk to her parents, etc. What's real strange is I also really started flirting with her while I was doing all this. This convo happened maybe 2 weeks ago and since then I have continued on flirting at her when she would txt me but also being consistent with the idea that we were going to proceed towards divorce.
I had a sense something was changing because when I left for my reunion she told me to come to her and she gave me a big hug. She also txted me while I was at my reunion. She also said she had had a blast the first time we spent time together when our NC ended when I entered girls in a road race and she came to that also.
So I may have an opportunity here. Do not want to be melty man and blow things. If she is serious on working on things, I want us to get into MC and maybe do a retrouvaille. Not sure if I should expedite hercoming back home if she is willing or if we should have her stay at apt? There also is some remodeling I wanted to do to the house to finish some changes she had wanted way back so maybe I should go to her apartment while they work on the house? Ideas??????
_________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Uconn won. Where is my case of beer? _________________________ "A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 627 What changes in your W will you need to feel safe in the R? _________________________ The best things in life aren't things.
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#92893 - 04/11/11 02:10 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] gr8 day 2b alive Member
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 1286 Loc: Brotherly Love Quote: So I may have an opportunity here. Do not want to be melty man and blow things. If she is serious on working on things, I want us to get into MC and maybe do a retrouvaille. Not sure if I should expedite hercoming back home if she is willing or if we should have her stay at apt? There also is some remodeling I wanted to do to the house to finish some changes she had wanted way back so maybe I should go to her apartment while they work on the house? Ideas??????
Sounds like you do have an opportunity here busto.
Yes you are correct when you say you shouldn't expedite her coming back.
What changes has she made?
I would suggest coming up with a plan, MC Retro..etc like you said. without a good recovery plan it will be difficult. Take it slow. Don't chase.
congrats, gr8 _________________________ Find a passion and pursue it.Fall in love.Dream Big.drink wine, eat good food and spend quality time with good friends.laugh everyday.tell stories. learn more. never give up. be grateful try new things be. happy. and above all, make every moment count.
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 6390 Originally Posted By: Pinhead What changes in your W will you need to feel safe in the R?
What changes in you will your W need to feel safe in the R?
_________________________ "A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 627 Think ahead about your plan:
1. What you will want to address in MC. 2. What will you hope to achieve via Retrouvaille. _________________________ The best things in life aren't things.
Registered: 09/02/10 Posts: 12109 I don't know Busto. She's making noises, but watch her actions. Let us know when she pulls out the big guns.
In the meantime, continue doing what you have been doing. _________________________ In the depths of winter I finally learned there was in me an invincible summer..Albert Camus
Registered: 10/12/10 Posts: 1218 What do you want your marriage to be?
Work backwards from the ultimate goal to where you are now. Know what your non-negotiable terms are. Plan out a course of action with her input and buy-in, then lead. You comfortable with the psychic as part of this?
Stay patient and calm.
Cheers _________________________ You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end which you can never afford to lose with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 6390 Originally Posted By: Coach What do you want your marriage to be?
Work backwards from the ultimate goal to where you are now. Know what your non-negotiable terms are. Plan out a course of action with her input and buy-in, then lead. You comfortable with the psychic as part of this?
Stay patient and calm.
Cheers
Kinda like designing a new house and then building it.
There will be a lot of tests on the way.
_________________________ "A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand
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#92904 - 04/11/11 02:32 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] LovingAnyway Board of Directors Treasurer Member
She wants her old life back? Ask for all the parts so you understand what she really means.
Your plan is still within what you require. You want a better, amazing, thriving marriage where she doesn't over-do or under-do (nor you); where she will not do that which she will resent...because that's the poison that nearly killed you out of the marriage.
How about require three sessions with MC, owning what she did, why she did it and how she won't do it again (if she blamed you for not making her happy, for making her miserable, trapped, taken advantage of, used, whatever)...
When you do well at validating, hearing, understanding...you'll see what's missing, what she hasn't changed.
You know you may not want to see her changes...the same she said to you...be aware of...to not imbue her with more change than she's really willing or doing, 'k?
Can she stay in her apt without signing another lease (without you cosigning)?
Are you willing to date her? Is she asking you out? Is she willing to woo you again? Does she recognize and own how much her choices hurt you and hurt you for a long period of time?
I love the flirting while enforcing healthy boundaries. You're a genius, Bustor! You can make Retrouvaille a requirement before moving back in...remember the follow ups are as important as the weekend, I think.
You can tell her more specifically what won't work for you--her changing her mind from her feelings. You can't trust her to really want her life back without her knowing her ultimate happiness is really being in love with the father of her children. That's a belief she chooses, not a feeling.
As long as she chooses to live backwards, she's a threat to the marriage. Contemplate this. You and your boundaries are no longer subject to which way her feelings blow.
You want her to love like a verb...to choose and act from love, even if she doesn't feel like it...and you know the feelings will follow.
Which is how you can say this isn't working for you and be okay with divorcing...you know when you stop acting love, over time, you'll stop feeling it. It's what she did. It's what her choices taught you.
LA _________________________ The Paradoxical Commandments
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 5058 Loc: TX I'm sorry you had to go to a funeral, Busto. hug
I kind of figured this was coming based on her actions in mid-March. Yea for an opportunity!
So you've already been doing a lot of work on you. I assume what you posted at the beginning is still true - online stuff all done, better boundaries defined for yourself in general, other personal fixes becoming habits?
W was in IC before to "fix" her self-esteem and trust issues. Is she still doing that?
It sounds like you have both been doing a lot of work already, and your sitch is strange anyway in that you were the wayward first. Because of your past, I think Retrouvaille could be very good for both of you so that you can make sure and identify some of the big trust and communication issues you still need to work on.
What does a good marriage look like to you? What changes would you or she need to make still to get there? This is what you'd need to work on in MC.
At the same time, keep letting her take care of herself. You don't want to get back into the codependence. You don't want to rescue her. You need two healthy people to make the relationship work. _________________________ D6, S2
I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.
Separated Oct 2010 Divorced Jun 2011 New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4
Registered: 10/12/10 Posts: 1218 Quote: I love the flirting while enforcing healthy boundaries. You're a genius, Bustor!
He's a cat whisperer. _________________________ You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end which you can never afford to lose with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
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#92939 - 04/11/11 03:21 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] rob x Member
Registered: 11/12/10 Posts: 1383 Originally Posted By: bustorama OK, I haven't posted in awhile. Possibly big development in my sitch. Probably need urgent feedback!
W just called in tears saying she wanted her old life back, she wanted to come back, saying she had been doing alot of thinking and seeing things clearer since having a purging with her psychic (which also coincided with some strong actions on my part, perhaps not coincidentally).
I clarified with her, you want to come back? She said yeah. I said let's get together after lunch to talk about things.
Possible catalysts from my end is that I put divorce fully on the table in two conversations. First conversation was about 2 weeks ago, I told her, W, I would have preferred not to divorce, but this sitch is no longer working for me. It's time to start splitting everything up, etc. I was on the way to funeral and she started crying and not wanting to discuss. I agreed to postpone the talk another month while she got some shinola together at her end.
Fast forward a couple of weeks and she asks me if I will help her buy a new cell phone cause hers is broken. I say no. She says her lease renewal is signing up will I co-sign it for her again. I say no. All kinds of ranting and raving. I stayed calm and cool and said, sorry I won't do that. It's the reality of people divorcing. To talk to her parents, etc. What's real strange is I also really started flirting with her while I was doing all this. This convo happened maybe 2 weeks ago and since then I have continued on flirting at her when she would txt me but also being consistent with the idea that we were going to proceed towards divorce.
I had a sense something was changing because when I left for my reunion she told me to come to her and she gave me a big hug. She also txted me while I was at my reunion. She also said she had had a blast the first time we spent time together when our NC ended when I entered girls in a road race and she came to that also.
So I may have an opportunity here. Do not want to be melty man and blow things. If she is serious on working on things, I want us to get into MC and maybe do a retrouvaille. Not sure if I should expedite hercoming back home if she is willing or if we should have her stay at apt? There also is some remodeling I wanted to do to the house to finish some changes she had wanted way back so maybe I should go to her apartment while they work on the house? Ideas??????
Bro do you want us to tell you it's ok to talk relationship talk with her because it looks like she's coming around?
You won't get that from me.
She's not ready yet.
You might think she is but look at the warning signs.
She just needs someone to take care of her financially and give her some security, she hasn't given you any real signs that she wants to come back.
Words are cheap, let her work for it.
How long have you been at this? How many months/years has it been? Do you remember how much time you spent pursuing, offering relationship talk and counselling and all that good stuff? Did it work? No.
Even if she says she wants to try again, you have to let her feel your loss, you have to determine if she's being genuine or if this is an act on her part.
She wants her old life back?
Do you want the "old" life back?
I hope not, it brought you to this place and if you go back to your "old" life, you will more than likely return to this place.
She had a "purging with her psychic"?!
Seriously?!
This is what changed her mind and prompted her to re-evaluate her life and her relationship with you. Someone she pays to tell her things about her "future"?! That's a stable foundation if I ever heard one!
And no, I'm not being cynical, I'm being real.
You should be REAL too.
You shouldn't have asked her if she wants to come back, you need to let her tell you, prove to you, work hard for you to show you that she wants to come back. It won't be subtle, it will be very apparent, she will make it known to you.
If she only wants back so that her life is simple again and that you will be taking care of things that she doesn't want to take care of herself (ie. paying bills, managing her life, being mature, responsible, etc.), I personally wouldn't want her back - she wants back for the wrong reasons, not because she wants you but because living on her own has proven to be too much work for her. Take her back, she'll get comfortable and then too comfortable and then bored again and then she will entertain these ideas all over again with thoughts of "maybe I can handle living on my own again the next time".
Quote: ...First conversation was about 2 weeks ago, I told her, W, I would have preferred not to divorce, but this sitch is no longer working for me. It's time to start splitting everything up, etc. I was on the way to funeral and she started crying and not wanting to discuss. I agreed to postpone the talk another month while she got some shinola together at her end.
This works. You need to maintain this, you need to put yourself first, she's attracted to a man that values himself, women generally are attracted to high value men, when you put yourself last, it shows that you're low value, she doesn't want a low value guy, what's in it for her if she's in a relationship with a man of less value than herself? It's not attractive, she will always feel short-changed, like she got the worst part of the deal and that always kills attraction.
Quote: ...So I may have an opportunity here. Do not want to be melty man and blow things. If she is serious on working on things, I want us to get into MC and maybe do a retrouvaille. Not sure if I should expedite hercoming back home if she is willing or if we should have her stay at apt? There also is some remodeling I wanted to do to the house to finish some changes she had wanted way back so maybe I should go to her apartment while they work on the house? Ideas??????
You do have an opportunity here, you have always had this opportunity, you're only now seeing it for the first time. You will not become Mr Melty Man because we know that doesn't work. You can tell her plain & simple, based on all the events that led to your current situation, you don't trust her, trust and loyalty are very important to you and you can't invest your time in people that don't know what they have. No one knows what the futures holds for the two of you but for the time being you won't be the one investing in her or your marriage, you let her know that you're not sure how you feel about her anymore, a lot of time has passed and you've changed quite a bit during this process, you know what you want in life and what you DON'T want in life. It will be up to her to show you that she is for real, she can invest in marriage counselling, personal counselling for herself, whatever she wants to do but you can't guarantee that you will be there waiting for her. This whole process has shown you that life is too short and too valuable to waste on people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you. You will not ask her to move back in, that would be a mistake. You won't be offering to take her out on dates (let her do that), you won't offer marriage counselling or retrovaille as options to her, those are things she will need to invest in herself, to ask you if you will participate with her, not the other way around. Reading your post, you're already becoming Mr Melty Man.
Let her prove to you that she really wants you and her marriage with you. Don't make it easy on her, be a challenge, she wants a challenge, she wants a high value guy, she doesn't want someone who is easy, easy means little to no value, something obtained easily has no value and can be let go of easily as it's obtained.
Remember this, she is testing you, will you pass the test?
Here's a clue, don't worry about passing her test, you're not invested in this process like you were when this originally began, you need to be sold on the idea that this marriage is worthwhile and you won't invest any effort into something that isn't valuable to you anymore.
Don't be a push over.
_________________________ “Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”
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#92940 - 04/11/11 03:22 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson] rob x Member
Registered: 11/12/10 Posts: 1383 Originally Posted By: catperson It sounds to me like she misses your money. Be very careful.
Do NOT let her move back home. She hasn't earned that right.
exactly! _________________________ “Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”
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#92956 - 04/11/11 03:52 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x] Pinhead Member
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 627 Busto,
Here's a real tough question. Do you really want her back?
Do YOU want her back?
Not because she's the mother of your daughters. She'll always be that. Not because it'll be better for the girls. It might be, it might not.
But do you want her back? Is she the type of woman you find attractive (and I'm not speaking physically)? Does she fit well with your real personality, the Busto you've rediscovered over the last few years? Will she be a good partner for the rest of your life? Can you accept her flaws and foibles without feeling resentful or trying to fix her?
You're at a really good place in life; your career is going well, your healthy and doing things that build up your life. You have a good relationship with your daughters and the rest of your family. Can she share that or will it make you revert back to the Busto who lost himself online?
You're not the type to give up. And I'm not saying you should. But you've fought so hard and so long to "make things work" to "save your marriage" that sometimes it's possible to not see the forest for the trees.
She can change, people change all the time. But if she's changing to get you back, we all know how that pans out. Can you accept her as she is now, personality wise, outlook wise?
Do you feel the need to protect her now? To be her safety net? There are a lot of clues as to her motivation; her lease expiring, her needing a new phone, etc etc. Financial motives.
Has she made any moves in the past towards reconciling? Either for the two of you or even just for your daughters? Like a good investigator, weigh her motives. Watch her actions. Look for catalysts.
Rob has some good advice. Take your time, there's absolutely no rush. This relationship won't be repaired in a day, nor will it go to seed if you don't let her move back in tomorrow. _________________________ The best things in life aren't things.
Registered: 11/19/10 Posts: 6588 Busto, some of the advice you are getting makes it sound like your W needs to earn her way back after threatening the marriage. As you readily admit, however, your own actions were comparable to hers in terms of damaging the M. I agree with don't go all melty man, because she needs to be able to respect you. OTOH, be careful about playing hardball because of your history and the 180s you need to make. I think your flirting approach sounds great. MC is so risky IMO. I like the idea of Retro because there is a lot of initial momentum generated. Seems like something to do (including followups) while she is still living separately. I wouldn't take the psychic thing too seriously...she wouldn't have followed the advice if she didn't like the answer. I actually know a surprising number of intelligent and practical women who have used a psychic.
Sending good vibes your way! _________________________ me44 + Pookie, S8, D5
I'll make it all worthwhile, I'll make your heart smile ~ DM
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#92995 - 04/11/11 05:28 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] kimmie lee Member
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 2738 Loc: SEATTLE, WA Busto, I thought that the correct response to her inquiry re: "coming back" would be:
"I don't know how I feel about this right now......" _________________________ THE FOG comes on little cat feet.
It sits looking over harbor and city on silent haunches and then moves on....C. Sandburg
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 6390 Originally Posted By: kimmie lee Busto, I thought that the correct response to her inquiry re: "coming back" would be:
"I don't know how I feel about this right now......"
I don't know how I feel about that phychic who placed feelings in your head. I have to think about that. Gotta run.
_________________________ "A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand
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#93027 - 04/11/11 07:32 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x] TimeHeals Member
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 2324 Loc: Tennessee Quote: She had a "purging with her psychic"?!
I don't even know what that means. scratch
crazycrazycrazyGo slow. Let her find her feet again. crazycrazycrazy _________________________ Your Time Perspective Can Heal Mend the broken, make strong the weak and vanquish the evil.
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 6390 Originally Posted By: TimeHeals Quote: She had a "purging with her psychic"?!
I don't even know what that means. scratch
crazycrazycrazyGo slow. Let her find her feet again. crazycrazycrazy
Last time I purged, it was not a psychic. crazy crazy
_________________________ "A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand
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#93207 - 04/12/11 01:58 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: pookie69] bustorama Member
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Lots of great wisdom here for which I continue to be super appreciative. Some clarifications from my end while I continue to process and formulate my vision of path forward:
1) Pookie, I absolutely owe you a case. BTW, I don't remember if I posted this, but I was lucky enough to see UConn live when they beat SDSU (same day Arizona took down my Dookies). It was amazing seeing Kemba play live -- the talent difference was obvious. So fast, yet so under control. PM me your addy and your fav beers.
2) I am very cautious because of the potential financial angle and the question of whether she wants ME (as opposed to security, etc.) and how much she has actually changed. There are some suggestions to me that there ARE draws of some sentimental kind though.
- I found out from my little ones while I was away at reunion that my W drove by our house with them. She hasn't driven by the house (that I know of) in almost 2 months. I just had the house painted a totally different color and changed the locks. Perhaps seeing that affected her in some way (plus something was affecting her to drive by in the first place).
- My W also drove to the place where she and I were MARRIED while I was away (she told me this and lil ones confirmed).
- My W kept said to me a few times that she felt her unhappiness about other things in her life had spilled over and tainted her view of everything in her life, including me and our relationship. That she had recently begun to see this clearly (I don't know if this was related to my saying to her 1-2 weeks ago that SHE was the wise girl who once told ME when I was unhappy and at the depths of my depression that *I* was responsible for my own happiness and unhappiness).
- My W began taking Lexapro recently (within last 2 weeks) and perhaps the medication is helping her depression lift and changing some entrenched negative thoughts and feelings?
3) When I wrote above that I clarified if she wanted to come back, I didnt ASK HER to come back, which it seems some of you interpreted to have happened. Rather, I clarified with her if that was what she was saying to me when she said, "I want my old life back. I want to go back." And I said, do you mean you want to come back here? When she said yes to me, I said we should get together after lunch to talk about things.
4) The psychic thing -- the psychic did not tell her what to do one way or another. The purging thing is sort of a open-ended procedure in which the person performs a ritual that is supposed to rid them of negative things that have kept them in ruts, or evil eyes, or curses or things like that. It's entirely up to the person being purged to decide what that means for them (if anything). From everything my W has told me about this psychic, that seems to be the psychic's MO (very non-directive, instead saying very vague things like, you have a key challenge in your life about which you will need to make an important decision). The psychic thing is definitely a bit of a wild-card, but less so than it could be.
5) There is something intangibly different about my W. I was starting to see it before I left, and it's even more dramatic now that I have seen her again tonight. Something about the way she looks at me and opens to me emotionally. Even physically, her hugs tonight, she was pushing her hips against mine and like melting against me, squeezing me tight and nuzzling her head into me.
6) In the course of the night she kept talking about we and us and the family as a unit (the kids were there). She talked about:
- wanting all of us to go on vacation together, wishing we could all go right now, but wanting to go as soon as her job would permit it (any talk last fall of vacationing together before was anathema to her).
- changing the first floor of the house to hardwood, how she had dreamed over the weekend of her living in the house, sweeping the wood floors (she was terrified of the house before and said she would never be able to live in it again)
- she kept correcting D5 when D5 would refer to the house as Daddy's house and saying it is our house, or to W's apt as Mommy's apt (saying it is simply "the apt").
- planning to talk to her therapist tomorrow about her feelings about reconciling and working through with her therapist what her goal/ideals would be for reconciling.
- saying how cute and adorable in behavior our D3 was and how much she reminded her of me.
- saying how she was looking forward to the summer and all of us spending time together at the beach
6) I can see many ways in which she is not quite all the way there or still has changing to do. I am also definitely concerned about how much she may still be living backwards (based on her current feelings). I also am concerned re: how much of her future view is family-based vs. wanting to focus on repairing things between us or craving ME.
Definitely a slow approach is needed, and I also need to keep being cautious and contemplating/confirming whether the woman she is now is the woman I still want as my wife.
7) The kids seem to sense something happened today. My D5 asked, 'Is Daddy still going back to the house tonight?' One time that W and I hugged in the kitchen, D5 came running in and threw her arms around both of us. This, while cute, concerns me because if the piecing is a false start or fails, I don't want to see them hurt twice. How are kids handled in the context of piecing (assuming things go that way)?
Too tired to write more. I do believe she has undergone some significant change since before NC started and that there is a real opportunity here.
Edited by bustorama (04/12/11 02:00 AM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#93212 - 04/12/11 02:11 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] flowmom Member
Registered: 11/19/10 Posts: 6588 Busto, I think you are wise to be aware of how your children are affected by piecing. If you can, try to address this stuff not in front of them until you have more clarity. Also, be careful about "confirming" things with them...they can sense that your questions are not idle ones and they will make their own intepretations about what is going on.
Lexapro: change should be expected by 4-6 wks, but people often notice improvements by 10-14 days. And if she has been depressed and is being helped by medication, that is HUGE. Untreated depression is disastrous to relationships and you could be dealing with a very different woman now.
It sounds like your thought processes are clear... _________________________ me44 + Pookie, S8, D5
I'll make it all worthwhile, I'll make your heart smile ~ DM
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#93276 - 04/12/11 09:14 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: flowmom] catperson Member
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 7915 Yeah, I was thinking the same thing: cringing when you said you were hugging her in front of the kids. You two are their whole world. Just like a dog watches his master for cues, your kids are focused on y'all's actions to get a cue for their future. If she's not really changing, but using you - and it REALLY sounds like it to me - then eventually you're going to catch on and have to drop her again. And that will be double disastrous to the kids because NOW they are already expecting you two to be back together because you're hugging and kissing and whatnot.
Please please please do NOT let her back home for AT LEAST 6 more months. It's going to take her that long in therapy to get anywhere. It's worth the sacrifice if you want to focus on another 30 years together.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
