Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Yes, contact with her, in her most recent mindset, hurts in the sense that I get my hopes up that she might want to work on things, share her emotional world with me, etc. (premature/false hope?) and then I find out that she is lying to me about her day-to-day activities, pushing not only me, but also my family and also my friends, away, accusing my family of 'catching her in their web' and so forth.
And, yet, she was still calling on me to help her in efforts to get her car repaired, give her rides somewhere, etc. etc. Pulling me to get her needs met, yet at the same time not sharing herself with me emotionally and lying to me about her feelings or actions. Those choices she made during our contacts hurt me.
Edited by bustorama (01/20/11 05:17 PM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#55117 - 01/20/11 05:52 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] LovingAnyway Board of Directors Treasurer Member
Registered: 08/05/10 Posts: 2214 Since contact hurts (essentially), most likely you will feel anger, too...
anger follows on the heels of fear or pain.
I'd just like to see you okay with your own emotions...when you're not, you are more likely to act out your feelings than have them.
I'm looking out for you. Mine wasn't a truth dart, really...my own code dictates I clarify or confirm. No assuming...so I guessed, instead.
You may be okay with anger, frustration, disappointment, pain and fear. You might be okay with them most of the time, but not all of the time. I don't know, so I ask...because it is extremely painful in my experience to experience that emotional shutout from your spouse.
She may experience your anger as disapproval. I did, with my DH. Guess what? You disapprove, so that's honest. Just not acting it out...stating, not demonstrating.
Reminding you of that boundary.
Anger is not a boundary...can't enforce it...we sure try by acting out or in. Anger is healthy, for when someone is crossing your boundaries...even you...a signal. Like sadness, which is healing and doesn't feel healing...anger has a message to deliver.
She can't get your hopes up, btw...you do that. You can choose to go dark, because contact hurts, she knows this isn't working for you anymore, and you require honesty from her.
Also, maybe since she doesn't act from respect, honesty, consideration...her question was impertinent? She's disconnected from you emotionally, so she doesn't get to ask "Are you angry?"?
If you promised yourself to go dim, not connect with her, then whether she asks anything or not, you, dear Bustor, are required to NOT answer.
LA _________________________ The Paradoxical Commandments
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Yes, thanks for that. I'd say right now I'm ok at coping with my emotions about 80-90% of the time (even when I'm not "ok," it's not that I am acting them out, most of the time I just experience them as unpleasant and have trouble distracting, reframing, or just letting them happen).
I ran my half mara since last post. It went well, and I met my 3 main goals (2 race goals, 1 charity fund raising goal), not quite my pie in the sky racing goal, but that's still out there for the next one, right? =) Probably aiming for a late spring one.
Lots of fun social stuff happening around the race, get togethers for carbo loading, after race lunch/drinks/debriefing, etc. Probably gonna go for my first run since race today with my group.
Work is going well, but crazy busy. Some nasty deadlines approaching for Feb. 3. House projects a bit on hold until I can clear these.... _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Went to pet expo fair thing with my girls yesterday. We had a blast looking at all the potential adoptees, petting, holding, etc. They are dog crazy. I want to wait until summer to get one when it will be easier to housetrain it (cause of work), but they are so excited to even be thinking of getting one.
As consolation "prize" we stopped and got a couple of betta fish on way home from swim lessons today. They were so excited to set them up too. Really hilarious, jumping up and down and squealing for betta fish.
I'm still running post half mara. I ran a nice easy 8 along the coast with a couple of friends from my running group. Gorgeous day out, sun, other joggers, bikers, etc. Had Mexican food and margaritas afterwards.
I have one of my old college roommates visiting in town this week. Going to go pick and his wife up in a bit and go out for dinner and drinks. He knows about my being separated but none of the details, so that will probably be subject of much dinner discussion. Blech. It's strange, at the beginning of my sitch, I was like a 1-track record practically, wanting (needing???) to talk to everyone about it. Now, I hardly feel like talking to anyone about it. Do others feel same way? _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 6390 Originally Posted By: bustorama I have one of my old college roommates visiting in town this week. Going to go pick and his wife up in a bit and go out for dinner and drinks. He knows about my being separated but none of the details, so that will probably be subject of much dinner discussion. Blech. It's strange, at the beginning of my sitch, I was like a 1-track record practically, wanting (needing???) to talk to everyone about it. Now, I hardly feel like talking to anyone about it. Do others feel same way?
Will it help you to talk to him about it?
_________________________ "A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 7915 fwiw, when you do get a dog, I have found the most amazing dog trainer you could imagine. Totally better than anything else I've come across.
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#62556 - 02/01/11 09:42 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson] Mindfull Member
Registered: 01/27/11 Posts: 1127 Loc: Midwest Hey Busto! Just popping in to say hi here. Love the marathons! _________________________ D'd (6/27/2011)
D20, S15 & S12
And... He's Fergalicious...
"The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think."
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#62567 - 02/01/11 10:07 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Mindfull] bustorama Member
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Re: helping me to talk to him about it, I dunno. The thing is, since I am dim, talking about it sort of brings everything back to the forefront -- different unpleasant feelings -- sadness, frustration, guilt, helplessness, bit of anger. It also focuses me towards the past and mistakes I made pre- and post-bomb, things I may have failed to do in pursuing reconciliation, decisions she made that I don't agree with. A very different place than when I am focusing on me and the girls and the future.
Dinner was a good time, nonetheless, we ate at a place I like near the coast, and they seemed to like it. Lots of talking about the past, the present and the future. Will see him again at my college reunion out east in a few months.
Catperson, is the dog trainer like a video/book or an in the flesh person? I forget if you live near me. Or is it a device to help with training. My last dog was a Sheltie. He lived to about 14 years? and I definitely could have used a dog trainer to help us with his barking. Constantly herding and defending with his barking. Good dog, but can't you express it another way!
Hi Mindfull!! Yes, thanks! I had a nice run last night too with my group. They keep me sane and allow me to eat and drink whatever I want. Doesn't suck! wink
_________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#62573 - 02/01/11 10:20 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] catperson Member
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 7915 I'm in Houston, but he travels all over the place. He is amazing! He doesn't train with food; he trains with respect. Am I allowed to make a plug here? If not, the mods can edit it out. He is Stovall's Obedience. I researched ALL the trainers here - a ton, in a city this big - and he has the best credentials. Learned his trade with big names and organizations; he works with a lot of police dog organizations. He brings his dogs along sometimes (he breeds Rottweilers and Pugs, I think), and he tells them to lie down while he works with us, and his dogs just lie there, til he 'releases' them. Even if one of our cats runs by. It's really amazing. Basically, he trains them using what makes sense to them - respect, pecking order, consequences. It's 6 weeks of training, and he says it's an intense 6 weeks (no playing, no nothing unless he authorizes it), but he says isn't 6 weeks of your dog's and your time worth it, to have a dog that can spend the next 15 years of his life as a happy member of your family who doesn't always get yelled at?
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#65351 - 02/04/11 05:16 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson] LovingAnyway Board of Directors Treasurer Member
Registered: 08/05/10 Posts: 2214 Bustor, how did your night with old college roommate and his wife go?
Sounds like your awareness for beauty, joy and fun is still way up there. Kudos on that.
Is your plan to stay dim? Does that mean you have strictly limited contact with W or did you go darker than that?
LA _________________________ The Paradoxical Commandments
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
Cat -- I didn't realize you were there. I have lots of family there and am very familiar with it. I definitely want to get formal training for my next dog (and for me -- I've heard the training is as much about training us to interact with them). I also want to be sure and get 2 dogs at the same time when I get my next dog. I felt bad my Sheltie didn't have a buddy (or girl) to play with. Maybe that would have helped soothe some of his excess barking, hehe.
LA -- We had a great night! It was so good to see both of them, and they were both very warm, supportive and fun. In terms of my sitch, my roommate said he was proud of me for owning my mistakes and working on myself and to keep controlling what I could control and not try to control or feel responsible for what I couldn't. He's a smart guy. =) That was only a small part of what we talked about though. He and his wife are both doing really well and their 2 girls are adorable. We talked about them coming out maybe over the summer for a family vacation and us all hanging out (their girls are around the same age as my oldest D).
The dinner itself and wine were killer, too. Also had a tasty mojito. I love that place and want to go back. I'll be seeing my roommate again in April along with a ton of my other friends at my college reunion.
I got through my crazy work deadlines last week in one piece. Still doing my running and went spinning for first time in a week or so this AM. I love exercise so much, and it does so much for me. It's a shame I stopped doing it during my dark years and allowed myself to slip deeper and deeper.
Last weekend, I took girls and one of neighbor girl friends to zoo. They had a blast feeding the lorikeets and giant animals in the petting zoo. We all went out to dinner for pizza afterwards with the dad of my D's friend and his son. The dad's W stopped by in the AM dropping off my oldest after sleepover. She came in for an hour while girls played and did karaoke, and we caught up some -- I hadn't talked to her since December. She is one of W's friends, but she says W has sort of dropped off the face of the earth to her. She brought the subject of W up and I steered subject away from that, but perhaps I should have been explicit and said, you know I'm trying not to think about that right now, I'd rather talk about XXX.
D's also had swim lessons and dance lessons, where I caught up with other neighbors. I keep meaning to have them over for BBQ, and keep not having time. Some times it's tough juggling the 3 D's and their school stuff with work with GAL.
This weekend W has girls. Haven't made plans yet to do anything. I sort of need a home project/chores catchup weekend from all the grant madness. I need to call the painter I picked and get them out to paint the house. It will look killer.
Oh, I just realized I didn't answer LA's question. Planning to continue with the current dimness. There are some points of strict NC I'm not sure how to manage with 3 kids. In our standard schedule, any "exchanges" happen in the context of school or day care, so there is no need to see one another. But, there are occasional exceptions I'm not sure how to deal with. Like today D3 had a 3-year checkup at the doctor's office, and I wanted to go. I've always gone to them since she was an infant. So I went and W was there.
She had an unhappy look on her face, tense body language and vented that she was overwhelmed at work and with deadlines, mistreated at work, sleepless, needing to take tranquilizers, stressed by girls' behavior when she had them and asking when the next therapy appointment for D5 was (we started her in IC therapy over the summer and she goes more or less weekly -- I take her to most of them). Why does this general unhappiness seem to be a pattern (rule?) in sitches on here??? Is it the human response to a broken relationship? Or does it come first and help drive escape from the relationship?
Edited by bustorama (02/10/11 06:49 PM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 5058 Loc: TX Originally Posted By: bustorama Why does this general unhappiness seem to be a pattern (rule?) in sitches on here??? Is it the human response to a broken relationship? Or does it come first and help drive escape from the relationship?
In my completely uninformed opinion/mindreading, I think a lot of our spouses are very unhappy before they leave. They think leaving will make things better, and when they find out that firing us doesn't magically fix everything, the unhappiness shows itself more, especially around us, "the cause of all the issues". (In my STBXH's case, at least, this seems to be true.)
And part of it is also that leaving any relationship hurts, and if you are the leaver, you also have a tad bit of guilt, especially if there are kids. _________________________ D6, S2
I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.
Separated Oct 2010 Divorced Jun 2011 New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4
Registered: 12/28/10 Posts: 955 Originally Posted By: bustorama Why does this general unhappiness seem to be a pattern (rule?) in sitches on here??? Is it the human response to a broken relationship? Or does it come first and help drive escape from the relationship?
Here is my take on it, but it could be wrong, I'm sure someone will let is know though!
When the LBS gets the bomb, we are kind of forced into this kind of unhappy, stressed state. We immediately start thinking of the failure of our marriage, the stress that comes with the splitting of lives. That's where OUR heads are at. We get plunged into that almost immediately.
The WS however, seems to feel relief first. Freedom from the unhappiness, the prospects of a better life and future. They are the optimists in this situation.
As the LBS gets through this, we do the things we need to do to make our new lives better. We GAL, focus on is and our families, and do the healing. The WS on the otherhand thinks the split is the key. They don't usually do as much work on them as we do. They don't examine the relationship, the future, themselves. Then, when life ISN'T much better just because they left their spouse, reality kind of hits. The main difference at this point, is wether or not they realize that it wasn't our faults completely.
For instance, my stbx just told me that 'he's always cranky and tired, school [censored] and he is having issues with breathing, like theres a weight on his chest sometimes'. Me? I think it's stress and anxiety. He thinks it's medical. He's not to the point where he realizes that leaving me isn't going to make him necessarily happier. He's not past blaming me. He thinks it's the stress of the divorce and school. And it probably is. But not using someone around to help him deal with this stress anymore is causing him to have physical symptoms. Is it possible it's medical? Sure But his life is NOT roses alone.
But I don't think he will ever admit that part. There will always be another excuse for his unhappy. Me on the other hand? I got DUMPED. I am downgrading my home. My bills are going to jump, while my income went down. I'm a single mom every day of the week, and he's a dad 3 days every two weeks. But you know what? I'm HAPPY. By all accounts, I should be miserable while he is happy in lala land. But that's not what's happening.
And it kind of makes me giggle inside. Working on me and my life did so much. So so much. And he's still stuck being miserable.
Edited by Thirty78 (02/10/11 07:38 PM) _________________________ Me: 31 Kids: 10, 8, 3 Bomb: 08/10 The rest doesn't matter.
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 5058 Loc: TX I nodded along with that whole post, Thirty, and laughed out loud at the end. I think you've pegged it - and the end is exactly how I feel. _________________________ D6, S2
I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.
Separated Oct 2010 Divorced Jun 2011 New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 So, very strange yesterday.
W called and left a VM message crying asking could I call her that she wanted to talk about "us."
So I called her up and asked how she was doing, what was up.
She said she had been crying tons over the last month, like she was on a crazy rollercoaster between neutral and low. That she had permanent red marks under her eyes that she was crying so much.
I said that sounded terrible, what was she crying about, what things were triggering the low?
She listed off several things unrelated to "us" (work stresses, money stresses, etc.) and then said but a big one is "us", that she keeps thinking about getting back together, but she feels stuck, that there is a "block" on her love that she can't remove or break through. That she really wished she could move it, but she can't.
So at that point, I'm wondering why she called????
Instead I picked up on her saying something about being scared because of what had happened before, and I said I understand that you feel scared I get that. She said something about never wanting to go back to the way she felt and the way things were. I said I never want you to feel that way again ever, and I don't ever want to go back to the way things were. Was there anything she wanted me to do or something I could do to help?
She said no, then she went back to the feeling a "block" and went back to her old script about once her feelings switch off they never switch back on.
So at that point, I was really thinking this is going nowhere, why did she call. So, I said something like, I'm truly sorry you feel the way you feel and that you feel stuck. I feel so much empathy for your hurt and pain. I wish I could do something for you to remove that block, but I can't. I've done everything I can at my end. It doesn't sound to me like anything has really changed about how you feel, so maybe it's best if you talk to someone else about your feelings. She asked me if I was mad at her, and I said those are your feelings, and I am not mad at you for having them.
And we got off shortly after that.
Then she called me 30 minutes later. I (stupidly) answered the phone, and she asked me again if I was mad at her. Then she said she didn't mean to hurt my feelings and said something about she cared about me very much and wished she could change how she felt. I said I understood that she felt she couldn't change her feelings and got off the phone again.
Then she called back about 45 min later and I didn't answer. It went to VM and she said our D5 was sick, could I call her in the morning (D5 is sick, in fact).
Not sure what to make of this. Not clear to me why she called other than looking for emotional support perhaps? Or taking my temp? I feel like I may have missed an opportunity, but not sure what to do differently if it happens again. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/10/10 Posts: 395 She's taking your temp only to see if she still has you wrapped up in her.
It's not an effort to reconcile. She's feeling empty and wants to make sure you're still there as a backup plan.
Reread your last post. She said nothing of really wanting to try to repair it. She makes excuses and calls them 'blocks'.
She was probably, and still is, having bad days. Nothing has changed. _________________________ me:29 W:25 S5 T:6 M:4 EA?? Exposed: 5/21/10 - Discovered was really PA 1/24/11 OM#1 4/10 - 11/10 OM#2 11/10 - 1/11 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 (fake) W moved out 8/21/10 Found the whole truth 1/24/11 Lied to the whole time. I D'd her - 1/20/12
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 5058 Loc: TX Sounds like you validated a lot, which is good. It sounds like she wants you to tell her what to do so that she can love you again. If she isn't willing to go to counseling on her own (and then with you), there isn't much you can do for her. _________________________ D6, S2
I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.
Separated Oct 2010 Divorced Jun 2011 New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 7915 I would have added two things. About the not wanting to go back stuff...I would have added "Since you left me, I've spent a lot of time with professional therapy (or whatever you've done) getting to know myself as the new, adult me. Learning how I needed to improve and doing the hard work to improve. It sounds to me like you haven't done anything to change or improve yourself, so I have to wonder why you would think anything COULD be any better, if you aren't even being honest with yourself."
And toward the end, I would have added "Honestly, at this point, I feel for you but I can't even imagine being together with you again. I've grown so much and improved so much in the last 9 months that what we had before isn't good enough for me. If you ever reach the point where you're willing to take a good hard look at yourself and get some professional therapy, let me know and I'll be there for you. Until then...I just don't know what to say to you any more."
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Yeah, I agree with all 3 of you re:
1) her hurting and checking if I was still there
2) wanting ME to help her love me again, but not actually wanting to do anything HERSELF towards that,
3) that I should not need to sell myself to her, that it needs to be mutual, her also having changed her view on things, worked on her own issues/seen her own role, and seen the value in the healthier me and in a healthy restart between us.
I forgot to mention in my original message that she prefaced the "block" thing by saying that she saw how much I had changed and how much work I had done, and that's part of why she was crying so much because she saw that I was good again, but she was still blocked and broken
Something I don't understand is she IS in IC. But the stuff she told me before that they talk about in IC, to me, seems tangential not only to our R, but even to her depression/feeling/trust issues related to our R. They have talked about like her job dissatisfaction (over and over and over) or other friends of hers that she has decided not to be friends with or her general feelings of anxiety. So, even in IC, she make choices, in terms of agenda setting, not to work on the R or related issues.
Edited by bustorama (02/14/11 03:51 PM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 5058 Loc: TX Sounds like she still hasn't recognized that there is anything that SHE can do to fix the relationship. You're right, that's her choice. IC only helps if you let it... _________________________ D6, S2
I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.
Separated Oct 2010 Divorced Jun 2011 New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4
Registered: 09/02/10 Posts: 12109 I hope you will quit letting her get her Busto fixes. _________________________ In the depths of winter I finally learned there was in me an invincible summer..Albert Camus
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Was I wrong to call her back in this case? From her message (wanting to talk about "us"), I thought there was real change at hand. How should I have handled it differently? _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 09/02/10 Posts: 12109 My WH did that over and over. When she calls and wants to talk about "us", just ask her if anything has changed, and if she says no, tell her to call if it ever does.
Quit letting her get a whiff of you. She needs to miss you.
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 False starts, false hope. Ugh. I had hoped at the time that it was the universal code for 'something has changed.' _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
