Registered: 09/06/10 Posts: 1388 Loc: Gateway to the West Originally Posted By: bustorama Originally Posted By: Not2fun Originally Posted By: bustorama Random runner girl came up to me near end of night and started saying "bye Jimbo it was great talking to you (I had never seen her before and my name does not resemble Jimbo). Told her I was not Jimbo, but I could be if she liked. She started getting super touchy feely and affectionate. Asked her her name. Was the same as my W's. Oh. the games our Muses play.
Quite frankly, you are doing your wife a favor by divorcing her. For the one having had the affairs in this marriage, you sure are not displaying having learned any lessons from them.....tis a shame too...
I appreciate your honesty, Not2Fun, but I do not agree with you on this point. My EA's were in August-September of 2008. I have been trying in many different ways to repair things with my W since then. I have not been emotionally or physically intimate with ANY woman since October of 2008 (my W), yes, OVER 2 years. I have been propositioned/pursued MANY times in the interim and have never reciprocated. It may not be clear to you from how things come across on-line, but I am a joker, and I was not reciprocating this advance either. I find humor in almost everything.
Regarding the serious matter of affairs and boundary crossing, I have developed self-control and will continue to exercise it, as I did last night.
There is nothing humorous about any married person telling someone of the opposite sex "I'm not Jimbo, but I could be if you like....". It's even less humorous coming from the spouse who had the affairs.
Think of it this way....just how do you think your wife would re-act if she had read this?
Or even still, if this was one of your daughters going through this and you found your SIL behaving like this, what would you do?
"Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny."
Think on it....
Not2fun
_________________________ If you aren't being transparent, then you aren't being authentic. If you aren't being authentic, then you are being a hypocrite."
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Originally Posted By: Not2fun Originally Posted By: bustorama Originally Posted By: Not2fun Originally Posted By: bustorama Random runner girl came up to me near end of night and started saying "bye Jimbo it was great talking to you (I had never seen her before and my name does not resemble Jimbo). Told her I was not Jimbo, but I could be if she liked. She started getting super touchy feely and affectionate. Asked her her name. Was the same as my W's. Oh. the games our Muses play.
Quite frankly, you are doing your wife a favor by divorcing her. For the one having had the affairs in this marriage, you sure are not displaying having learned any lessons from them.....tis a shame too...
I appreciate your honesty, Not2Fun, but I do not agree with you on this point. My EA's were in August-September of 2008. I have been trying in many different ways to repair things with my W since then. I have not been emotionally or physically intimate with ANY woman since October of 2008 (my W), yes, OVER 2 years. I have been propositioned/pursued MANY times in the interim and have never reciprocated. It may not be clear to you from how things come across on-line, but I am a joker, and I was not reciprocating this advance either. I find humor in almost everything.
Regarding the serious matter of affairs and boundary crossing, I have developed self-control and will continue to exercise it, as I did last night.
There is nothing humorous about any married person telling someone of the opposite sex "I'm not Jimbo, but I could be if you like....". It's even less humorous coming from the spouse who had the affairs.
Think of it this way....just how do you think your wife would re-act if she had read this?
Or even still, if this was one of your daughters going through this and you found your SIL behaving like this, what would you do?
"Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny."
Think on it....
Not2fun
Again, thanks for your message and honesty.
I see two separate issues here -- one is my thoughts/intentions and the second is how my words (actions) might be "heard."
Regarding my intentions, I know what I meant and did not mean in my words and in the way I said them (very jokingly). In no way was I serious about "being Jimbo" or doing anything with this woman. I think she knew perfectly well that I wasn't "Jimbo." As far as I know, there is no one in our running group named "Jimbo." I was amused with what I saw as the situation (her approaching me with a Jimbo ruse) and I was trying to be playful about the "mistaken identity" in a way that would make this "meeting" not awkward for either of us. And then the painful irony that this person who was interested in me had the same name as my W, who is not....
If you knew more about the opportunities I've steered far clear of over the last year, I think you would understand that I do not think in terms of having As. To me, these approaches are like cruel, ironic jokes. If you also knew the circumstances of my EAs -- I initially compartmentalized/rationalized my EAs as not being real because they were virtual (with people in a game with character names) -- then you also might know that my crossing the boundary of an "in the flesh" A is something that didn't happen even at my worst and certainly would not happen now. I am quite comfortable with my thoughts and intentions.
The harder issue, I realize from your second message, is how my playfulness might be "heard" by someone not in my head. You heard something different than what I was thinking. In hindsight, maybe she did as well and that's why she started getting touchy/affectionate. Maybe my W would as well if she overheard (I'd like to think not because she knows me well, but I can see now given how I hurt her that she might hear something different now, whereas she wouldn't have before).
So, while I can't control how others "hear" me, I CAN act/speak in a way that others are less likely to "mishear" me. Lesson taken.
In that context, something I would like you to consider -- there are people (from DB) on this forum who are more familiar with me, my personality, and my history than I believe you may be. From private messages they sent me, they did not "hear" what you heard in my words and actions.
The solution for me is to disambiguate my words and actions in a way that aligns transparently with my thoughts and intentions. Thanks for speaking up again. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#46642 - 01/07/11 08:51 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] catperson Member
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 7915 Maybe those more familiar with you wouldn't see that. But this woman did NOT know you. So she likely did take it the way Not - and I - did.
One thing I think that men are often completely oblivious to is what it feels like to be a woman, lol. As in, what it's like to be around a guy and try to figure out his 'clues.'
Another thing I think men often fail to take into account is the VERY sensitive nature of how we view sexuality, how we feel men perceive us and how we feel they think of us (i.e., in terms of just being an object for their pleasure, etc.).
We're very aware that your libido drives you much more than it does us. Erego we're also very aware that we are likely to be taken advantage of, and that some men WILL forego expected moral standards to GET that libido taken care of.
Note I'm NOT saying that's what YOU did. I'm saying that women often go around with a little bit of radar up for such actions and words that men aren't aware of.
Not saying this to drag you down or anything. Just thought it might be a worthy moment to carry on the 'learning moment,' lol.
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Yeah, the same way that men can be oblivious to women's clues and catspeak, hehe.
Your additional point of feeling like a (potential) sex object/target and all that may entail regarding your perception of how others interact with you or others is a big one. I know it has operated in my sitch too insofar as my W sometimes would interpret my meeting her emotional needs during separation as being me pursuing her sexually, instead of simply as trying to love her or connect with her.
When she said something like that to me once, I said something like, look I haven't had sex in over 2 years, if this was just about sex for me, don't you think I'd be long gone by now? I probably should have validated her feelings about it more, but I was thinking, "Really? I haven't had sex for 2 years and am still working at things at my end, and you still see me as just some sex hound?"
I can see, ESPECIALLY if you have been hurt in the context of a guy gratifying his libido -- like in my affair, how that radar would be on full alert and for quite some time. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 09/06/10 Posts: 1388 Loc: Gateway to the West Originally Posted By: bustorama
If you knew more about the opportunities I've steered far clear of over the last year, I think you would understand that I do not think in terms of having As. To me, these approaches are like cruel, ironic jokes.
My question to you is, why have you put yourself in a position to even have these opportunities?
Not2fun _________________________ If you aren't being transparent, then you aren't being authentic. If you aren't being authentic, then you are being a hypocrite."
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 5195 BR, YOU had the affairs and yet you are still out there flirting or trying to hit on other women. How about doing the women and yourself a favor and waiting until your situation is resolved before putting yourself in these positions. _________________________ It's not who you are underneath, it is what you do each and everyday that defines you.
Don't go shaking the HO tree and expect an angel to fall out.
You guys take one, one little encounter and paint it as if Busto is out there hitting on every skirt that comes by. Geez. Maybe you guys are perfect, Puritans, but in the real world, women do flirt with men. Happens all the time, even to perfectly happy married men. And flirting back, with NO GOAL of humping skirts, isn't a crime against humanity.
N2Fun, he put himself in this "position" by being in a running club, something that sure seems to fit the GAL idea. Exercise, socializing, etc.
He explained himself, pretty clearly, yet you still felt the need to rag on him. Get over it. _________________________ The best things in life aren't things.
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#48207 - 01/10/11 12:45 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Pinhead] catperson Member
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 7915 I agree.
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#48248 - 01/10/11 07:52 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson] Not2fun Member
Registered: 09/06/10 Posts: 1388 Loc: Gateway to the West This was not the first incident, only the first one I commented on.
It was only a question, to a man, who I thought had wanted to save his marriage...seems I misunderstood...
Good Luck Buster....
Not2fun _________________________ If you aren't being transparent, then you aren't being authentic. If you aren't being authentic, then you are being a hypocrite."
But, if I was out trying to hit on women, please know that I would not at present have not kissed ANY woman in more than 2 years. I have been flirted with or hit on in the most random places since we've been separated -- dentist's office, Costco, family pizzeria, gym, running club, etc. I'm not running around at meat markets, cougar clubs, etc (unlike my W, incidentally). I smile and am open and playful when I talk to people (of both sexes). It's who I am. I will hire you a mariachi band too if it makes you smile. I won't, however, let myself get into a relationship with or connected to someone of the opposite sex, not while my sitch remains unresolved.
I knocked out 13 mile run on Saturday. Half mara in less than 2 weeks. Felt good to cover (almost) the distance. Left knee is a little achey breaky. Need to update my "to do" thing.
Re: my marriage, before I withdrew into NC, Not2Fun, I tried lots of different things over many months to reconnect with my wife (all the way back to August 2009 if you consider the pre-bomb and certainly since April 2010), to show her how much I love and appreciate her, to make amends for ways that I hurt her, to be present for her and responsive to her needs, as she would let me. Her main spoken hurts to me don't even seem to be about the EAs, but rather about the neglect and abandonment that happened around the time of the EAs. It seems I may have neglected her and hurt her too much (or at least that she has to work through on her own whether it was too much for her), because she has not and did not respond to my Plan A'ing. Rather, she has increasingly entered a mindset of entitlement and resentment of 'I have him wrapped around my finger," of banning me and everyone remotely associated with me from her Facebook, of getting her friends to ban me from THEIR facebook, of lying to me about things involving her Facebook, of not sharing her day-to-day or emotional world with me.
I still have enormous love for her and would gladly continue working at being the husband she always deserved if she decided she wanted to try to be the wife that I also deserve again. She has made it clear through her actions and words, however, that that is not what she wants right now.
Edited by bustorama (01/10/11 01:22 PM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#50249 - 01/13/11 12:49 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] bustorama Member
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Hey folks,
Things going well, and I'm feeling good. Some productive days at work, had a good teleconference today and meeting today. Some big deadlines ahead at beginning of Feb. 5 I need to keep up with.
Some success on the home organizing front.
Spun yesterday and did a quick 5 miler (for me) with my running group tonight. Went out for pizza and a couple of beers afterwards. Met some more new people. I really like the social aspect of my running group, everyone is so friendly. Met another guy running the same half as me next week and we have similar target pace, so we said we'd try to hook up at start line to run together for at least first half.
Few more calls and hangups with no msg from W. There have been several of these. Ended up celebrating D3's bday with a cake and movie with her sisters. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#50417 - 01/13/11 11:25 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] Pinhead Member
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 627 You need to update your sig... wink _________________________ The best things in life aren't things.
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Been busy with work, training and a bit D's.
Spun at gym Thurs, ran Fri night with my group and went out for dinner and desert with group at some new restaurant I hadn't been to before. Fri AM had last "long" run in prep for half mara with group in park. Stupendously pretty morning. We lounged on park grass in shorts and sun and celebrated end of long run training with the beer that never fills. One of the girls brought little bundt cupcakes for everyone. Pretty epic morning. After that went home and cleaned up and went to viewing party for my alma mater's basketball team. Met some new people there including one guy from my graduation year.
Cupcakes for girls and swim lessons today. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 She calls and hangs up about once per day (no answer, no message). I haven't initiated any contact to her. That has not been hard for me because I didn't initiate any contact to her earlier in our sitch from about June until October. The only change from that earlier time is my now not answering her calls. It's a little odd to me that she is not leaving messages because she used to, but, whatever.
I am picking girls up today (is my day today and tomorrow cause of holiday tomorrow), so I will see her in the context of that. I don't have an intermediary, but I should be able to get in and out of that quickly just based on arriving shortly before swim lesson starts.
Otherwise, NC -- all of our normal kid "exchanges" happen at school so we don't need to see each other at those and I have stopped going to the weekend activities when she has the girls. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 W asked "if I was mad at her?" when I picked up D's. I said, nope, just real busy, rounded up girls and left for swim lessons. Lessons went pretty well. I'm icing my right knee, it's a lil sore from yesterday, but nothing to worry about I don't think. D3 is napping. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 I don't agree with her behavior, but I would not say that I am "angry" at her. I am disappointed and hurt by her choices. I have told her previously that I am disappointed in her choices.
However, from what I have read about the experience of infidelity from the side of the betrayed spouse and how it can be like post-traumatic stress for many, it's difficult for me to be "angry" at her for her escapism / self-protection, especially since I am not walking in her shoes. Am I over-empathizing?
In terms of "consequences," it seems my absence from her life is about as significant a consequence as there is when it comes to me, no? _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#52607 - 01/17/11 12:02 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] catperson Member
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 7915 Originally Posted By: bustorama I don't agree with her behavior, but I would not say that I am "angry" at her. I am disappointed and hurt by her choices. I have told her previously that I am disappointed in her choices. Then why did you not tell her so THIS time? By you NOT telling her the truth you are CONDONING what she does to you. Do you think that's logical?
Quote: However, from what I have read about the experience of infidelity from the side of the betrayed spouse and how it can be like post-traumatic stress for many, it's difficult for me to be "angry" at her for her escapism / self-protection, especially since I am not walking in her shoes. Am I over-empathizing? Most definitely, you are. Why do you feel it's your job to make sure SHE is not upset?
Quote: In terms of "consequences," it seems my absence from her life is about as significant a consequence as there is when it comes to me, no? Um...don't flatter yourself. Seriously! Really, you think that not having you around upsets her?
Consequences for a cheater include (1)exposure so that she knows that her important people now think poorly of her; (2) having her life NOT be a cakewalk when SHE chooses to leave the life she had with you; (3) no longer getting YOU around to care about her, take care of her, make life easy for her, and bite your tongue to make sure she thinks you don't hate her.
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#52669 - 01/17/11 08:34 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson] Medc Member
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 5195 How is HER behavior wrong???
She left a man that cheated on her and is living her life. I applaud her resolve. _________________________ It's not who you are underneath, it is what you do each and everyday that defines you.
Don't go shaking the HO tree and expect an angel to fall out.
medcmbers@zoominternet.net
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#52746 - 01/17/11 11:00 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Medc] catperson Member
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 7915 Ooops! Sorry, I was confusing you with someone else. Just ignore me...
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#52849 - 01/17/11 01:02 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson] LovingAnyway Board of Directors Treasurer Member
Registered: 08/05/10 Posts: 2214 Bustor...
For clarity: You answered her question with "Nope, just busy"?
LA _________________________ The Paradoxical Commandments
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Originally Posted By: LovingAnyway
For clarity: You answered her question with "Nope, just busy"?
Ah, you and your truth darts. Dishonesty by omission.
While it's true that I am not angry, maybe a more honest answer would have been something along the lines of, "No, I'm not angry. I am, however, removing myself from this situation because the choices you are making concerning our marriage don't work for me and are hurting me."
_________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
