Registered: 11/16/10 Posts: 989 She's made it clear she wants no kind of relationship with you other than parenting yoru daughters.
Personally, I would not go.
If she brings it up again, tell her you will not be attending.
Top
#37228 - 12/17/10 09:28 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] TimeHeals Member
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 2324 Loc: Tennessee Get some rest, do something aside from focusing on this for a bit that is life-affirming (excercise, good nutritition, visiting family without talking about marriage issues, any old thing - enjoy life for a few hours here and there).
_________________________ Your Time Perspective Can Heal Mend the broken, make strong the weak and vanquish the evil.
Top
#37236 - 12/17/10 09:40 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: TimeHeals] bustorama Member
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Thanks to both, ya, where I was headed.
Tis the season also, unfortunately, to see my L. Ho Ho Ho!
Edited by bustorama (12/17/10 09:42 AM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 08/31/10 Posts: 7915 Originally Posted By: bustorama 2) Are you dating/going to date? Well, considering you don't want to be my wife, I guess that's no longer any of your business.
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 6390 Originally Posted By: catperson Originally Posted By: bustorama 2) Are you dating/going to date? Well, considering you don't want to be my wife, I guess that's no longer any of your business.
Busto.
This with a few substituted words is exactly what I told mine when she saw some strange female names on my phone the other day.
I'm not even dating.
It is not calculated move to generate jelaousy, it is a simple reality.
_________________________ "A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand
Top
#37446 - 12/17/10 05:54 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] rob x Member
Registered: 11/12/10 Posts: 1383 Originally Posted By: bustorama Thanks so much for all the input guys. Can you explain why cross out these?
I didn't do the editing but for your situation, less is more.
If you provide the $10 dollar speech, you will get the same response you've always rec'd because this probably isn't the first time you've written a letter or note to her that was longer than the book of Job.
A few words will probably have more of an impact than an essay.
If you've been one of those "letter writers" in the past, (I remember that was one of the old rules we used to talk about on DB, stop writing letters, it's just another form of pursuit) and she is used to getting the long winded verbose speech from you, think about her surprise when she reads 20 words instead of 2000.
Expecting you to be the old you and all of a sudden you're not, people take notice of stuff like that.
just my 0.02 cents
_________________________ “Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”
Top
#37447 - 12/17/10 06:00 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x] TimeHeals Member
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 2324 Loc: Tennessee Quote: A few words will probably have more of an impact than an essay.
Yep, and you skip right past that awkward "Dear God, does he expect me to read all of this? Can you say 'obsessed'?" moment smile _________________________ Your Time Perspective Can Heal Mend the broken, make strong the weak and vanquish the evil.
Top
#37616 - 12/18/10 11:40 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: TimeHeals] bustorama Member
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 I gave the speech, dropped the rope.
Context was a buddy of mine told me that his W (who is friend of W) said MY W had told her that I had gone somewhere and met someone and had a PA (which is not true, was EA's). I called W and asked her why she was telling other people lies about our sitch. I said I didnt know what I could believe from her anymore. She started getting angry at me, said that wasn't what she had told her, things got jumbled like in a telephone game, that she couldnt deal with this, that she was at the movie by herself, hung up on me.
My buddy then called, said W was texting his W, lighting her phone up. His W had gone into restroom and was pissed, wtf was going on. Friend comes over to hang out. We shoot the shinola. He agree re: dropping the rope and cake eating. We discuss his sitch with W which is still improving. Apparently, my W had taught his W to delete him from facebook and talked about how controlling her H was, etc. etc. to contribute to their downward spiral which fortunately seems to have reversed.
Anyway I wake up this AM and call W. Give her the speech more or less as written. I added one line at the beginning in the apology where when I said I had changed to who I should have been I also said that I had been willing to work on my half of the marriage. Then I said, this sitch isn't working for me, etc.
W's only reactions were:
1) She was not going to be friends with those other friends anymore
2) She did not want me to be influenced by stuff they said and think bad about her
3) That she did not want me to think she was a liar
I more or less said, whoever you choose as your friends is your life, and I said I wasn't sure why she cared about 2 or 3 since we wouldn't be having much contact.
Edited by bustorama (12/19/10 01:44 AM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Top
#37618 - 12/18/10 11:46 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] believer Member
Registered: 09/02/10 Posts: 12109 Good job, Bustorama! I think you are the first man here to drop the rope.
So we're going to look toward you as an example for the rest of the guys.
Now batten down the hatches. The Mrs is going to do all she can to keep you involved in her drama.
OK, so W had asked what time we were gong to gymnastics class for D2. I told her between 9 and 9:15. W said ok, then appears at 9:55 (with 5 minutes left til end of class). Go outside and kids start getting loud and ornery. I say I am going to take the kids home and come back at 11 for D5's dance class (bout an hour, home is like 3 minutes away).
W starts flipping out, I can't tease her like that, show me the kids and then take them away. Going crazy saying you cant just change on me all of a sudden and take it all away. I say, today is my weekend to have them and I don't feel like sitting around here for an hour with all this drama. She says I'm not causing any drama. I said I don't mean you I mean the kids. Take kids to car.
W follows me to car and starts making huge scene. Saying about the kids needed to know everything, they would know, she would tell them everything. They might be too young now but she would tell them everything when they were older. I said, W, not in front of the kids. She keeps reacting. Climbs in car and starts kissing D2 and D5 like crazy. After like 4 minutes of this kissing, I say ok, W, I need to go now. More ranting and raving at me. I say again, W not in front of kids. More ranting. I say to W, Boundaries, please watch the boundaries, not in front of kids. She's still inside the car kissing them. Guy who was in parking lot drives away and stops, then looks at me with a look like Dude Man I'm sorry she's nuts, shaking his head. Finally I convince her to get out of car. She yells something at me about [Bleep!] with the wrong person. She was going to get me good. She was going to get her lawyer to nail me to the wall.
I get in car and drive away.
Phone starts ringing. I pick it up and she tells me she is going to file an emergency restraining order on Monday to prevent me from taking the kids to Christmas -- order that I can't take them out of state. I say why would you do that. She says because I am stopping her from seeing her baby's. I just all of a sudden changed the rules and their routine. I am being disruptive. I say this is my weekend. She says well if this is your weekend, then next weekend is my weekend (when I would otherwise be in Houston). I say I thought we had agreed that I was taking them to Christmas and for which days. Why is this only an issue now?
W says because I am being a dick and taking them away. She says ever since you started talking to that friend of yours, you have become a raging [Bleep!]. He is such a control freak. He is abusive to his wife. He controls her. He doesnt let her do anything. I say I'm sorry you see me as being a raging a-hole now. I say if that is true about how he treats her now, it would suck to live like that. I wouldn't ever want to be in a relationship like that. W again says about emergency restraining order.
W goes back to the friend thing. You have changed since you started talking to him. First accusing me of the text, then I got mad at you for that and blocked those people on facebook because I was pissed off at you and when you asked me about it I was scared and panicked and lied to you. Now you see me as deceptive and a liar, I'm really not. I'm not lying. (I stayed quiet). She said why would you want to just blow up our family like this. Take everything away. Take my babies away for Christmas. You never asked me about Christmas, about the dates, if I was ok with it. You are so controlling. I said something about how she had been invited to Christmas before when we were together.
THEN she said your family doesnt even want me to come. Your mom and sister never want to talk to me anymore. They probably hate me and don't want me to come. Well that's ok I don't talk to them anymore. Then she spewed some about how I had been so mean to her since Thanksgiving with all the accusations and calling her a liar, going off about how mean I was. I said, I hear alot of pain.
She said yeah I am in alot of pain, with how you've changed recently and all of a sudden today, wanting to change everything, take our family away. And your family not loving me.
Too tired to type...more later
Edited by bustorama (12/18/10 05:45 PM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 09/09/10 Posts: 880 It'll get better...eventually.
My ex-wife was like that when we were seperating. She'd fly into a screaming, hectic hissy fit. It was bad enough that it'd take all I had not to break out into laughter at how hysterical she was being.
_________________________ Some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great. I just am great. --K. Powers
Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it. --Prefontaine
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 I eventually talked her off the ledge about the restraining order, so I don't think she will file that. Would be very annoying if she did.
Re: her complaints about the the texting and the facebook hiding, I said, let's start from the premise that suppose my friend had been saying stuff to me indicating that you might be having an affair (or dating someone depending on your perspective). And start from the premise that you in fact are NOT having an affair (dating someone). I can see a chain of events happening where I confront you about texting, you get pissed off to hell at me for doing that and get so mad at me being in your business that you ban everyone associated with me off your facebook, then I creep on your facebook page and find you are lying to me about being on facebook which TO ME confirms the idea that you are hiding something, then I find you lying about something else, and meanwhile you get more and more pissed at me and lie to keep me as far out of your business as possible. Do you see how that scenario might happen. She says yeah. I can see totally that.
Then I say the other scenario is that you ARE having an affair and all this stuff also lines up with that scenario. And she says do you really think if I was having en EA that I would just be texting away right in front of you? And at my cousin's wedding? REALLY?!?!?! I say it seems strange, but people do pretty strange things when they are having A.
I say, in either scenario has anything really changed? Really? And she sort of hesitates. She says, well that makes sense to me, but we are separated, and I don't want you in my business, worrying about who I am texting or talking to or if I am going out with my GF. I'm not doing anything wrong. And I say, no, nothing has really changed.
W's anger seemed to have reduced after this conversation (I think it was part of what talked her down from talking about the restraining order further), so that's good in terms of the no restraining order.
W was taking D5 and D9 (her SD9) to Nutcracker this afternon. On way to house, she called and asked me if I wanted her to bring me cash from the ATM and if I wanted her to pick up a vest order for me at the shoe repair shop while she was at each. I said sure, that'd be great.
She's still out with them. I was bone tired and took a nap in afternoon after cleaning house up a bit. D2 took a nap with me in my bed -- first time I've ever done that. She was really funny. We just finished dinner. Gonna get her ready for bed and then elliptical.
Oh, W dropped them off while I was mid-msg. She came into front of house for first time in quite awhile. Said she liked the Christmas tree. Asked about a chandelier I was putting together on the ground (I had ordered it awhile ago, replacing this fugly chandelier that she used to hate). I asked about the Nutcracker and the kids' place they had gone to afterwards. Said I was glad she had done that with the girls. Smiling, PMA, eye contact, etc. She was smiling, eye contact back. Looks like no restraining order in the works.
I took my ring off in the morning.
Edited by bustorama (12/19/10 12:37 AM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 5058 Loc: TX I'm confused. If you really mean that you are done with W, then why are you letting her run errands for you? If you are done, aren't you supposed to be focusing on your role as coparent? _________________________ D6, S2
I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.
Separated Oct 2010 Divorced Jun 2011 New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 5058 Loc: TX If you are cake eating, so is she. She still gets to act like your wife when SHE wants to, while keeping you at a distance the rest of the time. The most effective message would be to lean on her only as much as you are willing to have her lean on you - if you wouldn't be bringing her cash from the atm, then don't let her do that for you. _________________________ D6, S2
I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.
Separated Oct 2010 Divorced Jun 2011 New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4
Top
#37836 - 12/19/10 08:00 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: CajunRose] Pinhead Member
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 627 Busto,
I agree with CR. Don't let her do these little "favors" for you. She may do stuff like this to whittle down your resolve, and return the situation back to the previous status quo.
Also, I'm sure you've realized this is going to be a super stressful period for you, so be sure to eat, exercise, and get as much rest as possible. Easy for me to say, I know.
Remember to be aware of the role of being passive and avoiding conflict in your relationship. It's natural to not want arguments, drama, spew, etc, but stick to what you've decided is best for YOU and your three girls. _________________________ The best things in life aren't things.
Top
#37863 - 12/19/10 10:48 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Pinhead] believer Member
Registered: 09/02/10 Posts: 12109 Yes, you are getting off track a little.
No use discussing whether or not there is an OM or who she is texting.
Really make up your mind that the current drama isn't working for YOU.
Start to get strong and in control and know that you can do it and deserve nothing but her best. Is she a wife that is being the woman you need? Unless she can meet your requirements and truly wants to stay in the marriage, let her go.
Top
#37865 - 12/19/10 10:59 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: believer] bustorama Member
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 That texting discussion happened in the AM in the same convo about the restraining order. She kept bringing up the lying, texting, facebooking I think under the impression that, for me, THAT was what was not working. In that discussion, I was trying to communicate to to her that regardless of whether there was or was not an OM, that 'nothing changes.' That this STILL was not working for me regardless of whether there was or was not an OM (based on her viewing herself as separated, me not in her business, etc., me: 'nothing has changed.'). Maybe not clear enough from how I wrote it (or said it?).
Edited by bustorama (12/19/10 11:00 AM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Top
#37873 - 12/19/10 11:45 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] believer Member
Registered: 09/02/10 Posts: 12109 You know, Bustorama, we all have been through telling our spouses what we need, trying to explain it different ways ad infinitum.
The only way to break that cycle is to show them by our actions, by letting them walk.
Top
#38121 - 12/20/10 09:19 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: believer] Soleil Member
Registered: 11/16/10 Posts: 989 Well I am glad that you gave her hte speech. Like everyone has mentioned, now you drop the rope totally. Her acting crazy that day in the car is typically normal behavior from a spouse that gets told by the other that things aren't working.
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 I am so pooped. I slipped back yesterday, but, by the end, back forward today.
So yesterday, she called in the AM. She was asking something that I was non-responsive to. I kept saying, do what you think is right. ok, I gotta go, etc. She said this real happy, sort of plaintive THANKS! at the end of the convo.
Then she called in the PM asking for present ideas for D9/SD9 and for niece (on my side of the family), again real happy chipper sounding. I said get them whatever you want to get them. She said do you think SD9 would like blah, I said Use your own judgment. I'm sure you'll pick something fine. She tried similarly with my niece, "What about for niece, would she like this." Again, I said whatever you decide I'm sure will be fine. Then she went back to D9/SD9, ok what about between this model and that model? There are these things here on sale, blah blah. I said, W, I don't call my ex-W for advice on run-of-the mill presents and she doesn't call me for advice either. She said, OH I WISH YOU HADNT TALKED TO THAT GUY, EVER SINCE YOU STARTED TALKING TO YOUR FRIEND EVERYTHING HAS GONE DOWNHILL. I was quiet. She said something about how things were so much better before.
I said "You feel that things have gotten worse since Thanksgiving." And she tearfully said yes. I said, How are they worse today? She said because now you won't even talk to me, answer my questions. I said, W that is the reality of our situation. I don't talk to my ex-W hardly at all. That is how things will be with us. That's just the way it is. W again said something about being mad that the guy had turned me against her (the dynamic here was new, I felt her fighting for my attention and wanting SOME relationship between us).
Then I failed the test badly, I said, you felt things were better before Thanksgiving, that there was more trust between us? She said yeah it was alot better. That things have gotten bad with all these accusations.
I unfortunately? backtracked (FAIL!) and said if we could get back to that place, would you want to, would you want to pick back up from there and move forward, trying again. And she said yeah. So, I said, ok listen, I'm willing to try just a bit longer and work on things from my end, what about you, will you work on things? There was this big pause and I could feel the dynamic shift and she said, well I can't promise you anything like that we will reconcile. Sometimes I feel like I want a divorce, sometimes I don't, sometimes I cry and cry for hours, sometimes I am the happiest person in the world, I am all over the place. I am a [Bleep!] mess. (should I push for her to get back on meds??????). BTW, I guess this is part of why it is a mistake to let a WAS/WW lead?
And I said, I'm not asking for reconciliation, I'm asking if you will work on things. And she said, I can only promise to work on myself, don't push me, don't push me. And I backed off and said, well I will keep working on things at my end for a bit and decide based on how things go whether or not to keep going.
I took the kids to aquarium. On way back, I called W and asked if she wanted to join us for a bite and she said yeah. We go and eat at this pizza place. Have a good time. At dinner, W tells me that she is no longer friends with that friend from previous night and now also apparently one of her BFF left her in tears because she also banned BFF in her FB banfest. BFF (who I am also friendly with but not nearly as friendly as W), asked W did you ban me on FB. and W told her, Yeah, there has just been all this drama involving a friend of H's telling something to H that got him upset that I don't want to go into. And I've tried for this sitch not to affect the kids but now it's starting to because of this person so I decided to delete a ton of people off FB (I don't follow the logic????). And it's nothing personal against you, I even deleted some of my own family, etc. etc. Anyways, after eating, I go back to her apt where we put kids to bed, split up presents for Xmas (some for her place, some for house), I said how do you feel about coming with us to Xmas. No I need to do this for myself (go to hometown with folks). In other words, all of the same old miserable crap from before I said I was done. She did agree we should start working out together in the New Year.
So, this AM, I wake up and call to ask W question about present for her folks. W is all irritable (note that it also is her PMS time), complaining about D2, then says she has to go and hangs up on me. Calls back in 2 minutes and apologizes for hanging up and says she is irritable because I had listened to my friend and believed my friend about the accusations against her. I say I thought we already talked about this yesterday, what he described seemed convincing, maybe I could have asked her about it directly but she likely wouldn't have told me the truth if it was true.
Then W starts spewing about past hurts and how I kept hurting her now and she was sick of me hurting her and then saying sorry and hurting her and saying sorry. All this R talk ensued with W talking about all my various mistakes through our marriage. I listen. More talking. I ask is there anything you want me to say or do or just listen. JUST LISTEN. More venting. Going off over the years and years of ways she sees me as wronging her. (seemingly with no change since D-Day to me).
After awhile, I say, you know, this is unfair. I don't see you acknowledging your role in any issues from the past. She said I am aware of them, you said I was angry and yelled alot and didn't give you attention. I said yes, I think the biggest one for me is that you did not communicate to me. I felt like you expected me to read your mind when you were unhappy. Now when you tell me things, we can short circuit the issue, but in our past relationship you kept things inside for years and years building resentment and withdrawing your affection. The same way my listening to you was not fair, your not speaking up for yourself was not fair.
Then I said, and what about how you are hurting me now. And she said how am I hurting you? And I said by blocking me out of your life, by splitting our family, by haranguing me over and over about things I did 2 years ago, 4 years ago, 6 years ago, which I no longer do, for which I have apologized and made amends and remain remorseful, and which I can't do anything else about now.
And she said, if there's one thing I hate about men it's how they feel they can wrong you and then they feel entitled for you to come running back to them. I said W, I do not feel entitled to you and, at this point, this is no longer running back to me. I have worked my share of the marriage and offered a new relationship. There are plenty of stories of spouses who were angry of their spouse, scared of their spouse, didn't have romantic feelings for their spouse that decided to work on things in earnest with their spouse and came out in a better relationship than ever, happy in their relationship. She said something about how she was working on stuff, how she was in counseling. I said you can't really work on the relationship well while separated, you have to be together, committed to each other, patient with each other, committed to the marriage and working on things one day at a time, with outside help for the couple.
Then I stopped myself.
And I said wait a minute, I'm doing it again. I'm hearing again from you that you don't love me and don't want an R with me. She said I don't love you the way I used to. I said I don't know why I am trying to convince you otherwise. How silly and selfish of me. This does not work for me either. I don't want to be with someone that does not love me and want to be with me.
So, here we are again....
I don't see this going anywhere other than D. To me it seems she hasn't progressed at all in her thinking since Day 1. Can't forget or reprocess the negative past or see her role in it or, alternatively, look ahead to a different future separate from the past based on new relationship skills. Only possibility is if in my moving on her emotional mindset changes and she sees what she is losing in some way. If not, I wish her peace and happiness. She is a tortured soul now. =(
Edited by bustorama (12/20/10 07:09 PM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 6390 Originally Posted By: bustorama She is a tortured soul now. =(
Drop the empathy. It will not help YOU.
_________________________ "A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Originally Posted By: pookie69 Originally Posted By: bustorama She is a tortured soul now. =(
Drop the empathy. It will not help YOU.
Understood. Tough because I do still love her, and she's my babies' mama. I hate seeing her as messed up as she is both for her and for them.
I do need to look out for myself and my girls FIRST, though.
Something that disturbed me in her ranting about restraining orders 2 days ago is that she said she was going to try to make it so I was just an every other weekend dad. I hope she isn't really thinking that. Seems like it would be pretty hard for her to attain given that the status quo for 7 months has been 50/50 and she has been struggling with that even. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
