Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson] So Inspired Member
Registered: 11/18/10 Posts: 198 Hey Busto, good to see you here. I have no advice, I'm in no position to offer any. Just wanted to say hello. _________________________ You will never leave where you are until you decide where you would rather be.
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#24914 - 11/19/10 04:45 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: So Inspired] LovingAnyway Board of Directors Treasurer Member
Registered: 08/05/10 Posts: 2214 Bustor,
How do you feel about your acts of love in your last post?
LA _________________________ The Paradoxical Commandments
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Originally Posted By: LovingAnyway How do you feel about your acts of love in your last post?
The acts themselves feel quite natural to me, and it feels great to act lovingly to her. I'd already been doing some of this in response to communications that my W initiated. My only concern is if she feels pressured from them or if the acts are unwelcome/unwanted. The parts that are newer are me calling her to see how she was doing/how her day was going. I like calling her and talking to her, hearing about her world and feelings, the same way I liked when I got to visit her at her work last week (had never done that since she returned to work).
My D2 was sick today, so I stayed home with her and took her to Dr's office. Texted W about how D2 was doing. W was finishing a big deadline for her job today. I congratulated her for finishing and said me and D2 would like to take her out to lunch to celebrate. W said yes, so we had lunch.
A little later, subject of Christmas came up. I told W that I wanted to book tickets today for me and the girls to go visit my family. I told her I would love it if she came. W told me she was not sure that she wanted to think about it. I said I understood from previous convo that she thought the might feel uncomfortable with other family members if we were still separated. I told her that if she decided to come, I'd do all I could to help her feel comfortable and protected and see that we have a blast. That there was a slice of pie with her name on it at this pie place we like to go to. W said she was afraid how certain family members would make her feel if we weren't back together yet. W said she didn't want me to get mad if she decided not to come. I said she was free to make whatever choice she wanted, I would not be angry, and the offer stands should she decide to come.
She has generally been pretty friendly to me today (other than the Christmas thing which in some ways I see as emblematic of the bigger theme of her not taking the BIG steps associated with reconciliation, just babier steps of sort of connecting). When arranging the lunch on texting, she wrote that "she really wanted to meet for lunch." I told her I liked a new shirt she was wearing, asked her where she got it and said she looked great in it. She thanked me for and accepted the compliment.
_________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Oh when talking about her hesitancy about Christmas, W again talked about feeling anxious and scared, said her feelings weren't about who I was now and not even entirely about what I had done to her previously, but about things that happened to her in her past (meaning her parents and 1st boyfriend). That she couldn't control them and was still working on them. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#25009 - 11/19/10 07:21 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] LovingAnyway Board of Directors Treasurer Member
Registered: 08/05/10 Posts: 2214 Bustor,
Can you trust your wife? Trust has two parts...the amount of trust you give and the other half is earned.
Has she betrayed your trust?
She can feel fear and uncertainty and act bravely, anyway. You know that because you can do that, too. You are doing that right now. You invited her. Respect she chooses.
What if you created and signed a post-nup? Where you lay out all you will give up to her instantly upon any further infidelity? Seriously. You are not going to change back. You feel really good about acting from love and letting the response go.
She can fear. You're great acknowledging her fear. Don't react to her fear or your own. State what you fear. Share with her how afraid you are of losing this beautiful family you both created and which she held together when you were beating on it through neglect and adultery. Tell her why you know you won't change back...won't seek distraction; you'll seek her. That you will hold yourself to telling her when you want to distract and close off, even during crisis, and that you will still choose her.
Your greatest desire is to be by her side as she heals herself from all that happened to her in the past. That's how you will help her heal. And you will provide her just compensation, for life, for what you did to her and the marriage through your betrayal.
And ask her if she'll consider standing by your side while you heal from all the wounds you inflicted on yourself; not a single one of them was justified. Really share this with her...because not a single wound you inflicted on her or the marriage was justified, either. You did them. They are done. You won't do them again because you will protect the marriage against any more justifications. You see them for the lies they were and won't allow them. You will protect her by protecting the marriage...so she will be protected even if you want to do some hurt to make her stop hurting you. You won't do that anymore.
You need her help to spot self-lies that slip past you. You need to lend her some of your bravery, pointing how just talking to you is brave, takes courage. New promises from new knowledge.
You are a family...you are married. Both of you. Doing things as a family is living in truth. Awkwardness, comfort zones are part of lies we tell ourselves from our fear, which is a feeling...living backwards. You will be her safe harbor, her mobile comfort zone, wherever you go, correct?
Tell her. You're okay she feels anxious and scared. You know those feelings really well...tell her how those are what you wanted to get rid of, get away from you, so you got away from yourself and distracted...put your feelings ahead of her. You know so you won't choose that again. You can feel anxious and scared and act from love, anyway.
LA _________________________ The Paradoxical Commandments
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Originally Posted By: LovingAnyway Can you trust your wife? Has she betrayed your trust?
I trust her more now than I did shortly after she separated. Initially, I experienced her separating as a breach of our marriage and of my trust in her. I also did not trust the nature of her friendships with some guys shortly after the beginning of the separation and did not trust her or the guys. As we have gone along this process, your question has made me realize that I am regaining some of my own lost trust for her.
Speaking openly, I also have some trust issues of whether she really would like to mend things between us and mend our family or whether she is happy with the status quo and pays lips service to the idea of reconciliation from time to time because the status quo is a safe, cake eating landing for her (until something better comes along).
I also have trust issues if we reconcile about whether she will again withdraw affection and love as a tool or a punishment, as she did in the past, instead of communicating verbally about her angers, hurts, wants, and needs.
Originally Posted By: LovingAnyway What if you created and signed a post-nup?
I think she is much less concerned with any $$$ than with her emotional well-being. I can't promise to give her back a whole heart as recompense for further infidelity. At some point, that leap is at her end. I could promise to walk away a pauper if I breach again, and I think it would miss the mark.
Originally Posted By: LovingAnyway You feel really good about acting from love and letting the response go.
Ya, I act from love now, not out of expectation or manipulation.
Originally Posted By: LovingAnyway Your greatest desire is to be by her side as she heals herself from all that happened to her in the past. That's how you will help her heal.
I'm starting to wonder if perhaps I am doing this already, but from the closest distance that feels safe to her right now??
[snip] When *I* initiate talk about the R, it is quite anxiety-provoking to her. Fear, fear, fear. Pressure, pressure, pressure. When SHE initiates, that is when she is ready to listen. Wanting to hear. That is when I can share thoughts and commitments like those you suggest with her.
_________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 So, last night, had end of season soccer party for my D5's team. Was fun to see the girls get their trophies and celebrate. W came and seemed a little agitated when she first arrived about where D2 would sit, and which food was which and who was going to drink what. I helped get D2 situated, tried help W feel at home and got her a glass of cab. Socialized some with Dads then went back to talk with W a bit. Flirted with her a little crudely (she said something about our D5's social calendar being more full than hers then I said I'd like to "fill her calendar"). Not very Cary Grantish, but dammit she looked irresistible, and the beer was talking. W was not pleased. I need to put a lid on this sort of stuff, though.
After soccer party, we went to get frozen yogurt next door with girls. Said bye. W called me at home a couple hours later while buzzed (drunk dialing?) after returning from her girl friend's house. Talked for 10-15 minutes about random funny stuff, so I guess my calendar line didn't do irreparable harm.
In AM, D5's soccer game was rained out, so she went to ballet instead. W met me and other D's there. She looked great, and I told her so. We talked and hung out while D5 danced. Went to toy store afterwards and D's picked out thing for birthday party and for themselves. Then we all went to lunch at BBQ place. I listened to my W's statement as a question (W: I think I would like some ribs, what are you thinking of getting? M: Let's get a full slab of ribs to share with slaw and beans on the side).
On way into BBQ place, W saw a hot yoga place so we went in and checked place out. W was excited about it, got me a schedule too, showed interest in my showing interest in it there and over lunch. I need to figure out a way for us to do this together sometime (tricky with the 3 D's).
W told me she had signed up early that day to spin in the AM at the gym. I asked her to sign me into the class to join her on her smartphone. (so we are spinning in AM -- this is easy for us to do cause the gym has drop-in daycare).
At some point in day, we were talking about a mutual couple friend's relationship that has been on the rocks in which I've given the H some advice to try to turn things around for the both of them. Their R is improving, but there are still some residual trust issues on his part and control issues on her part. When W and I talking about it, it almost was like we were indirectly talking about the same issues in our R. In finishing talking about it, I said I never will try to control you or anyone else again. I never wanted that. She said, I can never be with anyone who tries to control me.
W took D5 to bday party and dropped her off at house afterwards. I had pulled out some boxes of pictures she mentioned she wanted to scrapbook and gave them to her. Told her I had had fun with her today, and she said yeah, that was a really fun meal.
Hanging out now at home with D's. D9 has friend over that stayed for dinner, might spend night.
_________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Oh I forgot to mention, I booked tickets for me and D's to go visit my folks for Xmas. I emailed itinerary to W in AM. When she called me in AM (shortly after), I said oh by the way, I emailed you the dates that we are going to Xmas. W said, oh yeah thanks I got that. If I come, I won't be able to go for all the days because of work. I said, that's fine, if you decide to come, I will pick you up. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#25661 - 11/21/10 01:42 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] bustorama Member
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 D9's friend spent night. Her folks and sibs came by for a bit and had a beer with them (well, not her sibs). W called at some point before they came over for no particular reason. Then txted later tonight to remind me about a shutterfly thing she wants us to do tomorrow for my mom. Said she'd see me tomorrow at spinning and we exchanged a couple random txts. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Went to spinning this AM. A little hectic getting out of house with 4 sleepy girls to motivate. Got there and W called to say she was running late. I managed to snag the last 2 spin cycles next to each other and set up our bikes with towels, water, etc. Txt'ed W that I'd hold off the masses. If she could get here, I had a bike and water with her name on it.
W arrives and is in stressed about computer issue that had scared her, she thought she had lost all these photos. I validated, omg. Tells me about how much she loved Superbad (what she watched last nite). I cracked a few lines of the movies to her. She comments how I used to say no dudes did spinning and look at all the guys that were there (she hated that I stopped taking care of myself before and opposed her attempts to try to get me out of my depressed, slothful mode). I said, yeah I sure was wrong and dumb back then. She said, well, you were just wrong. I said, "I was Mr. Wrong," and smiled at her. While spinning, W starts telling me about the ribs she started making this AM in her crockpot. I say, oh, I'm drooling. She invites me to come over with the girls and eat them in PM. She says we can eat them while we work on the photo collage for my mom. W says she is thinking about getting electrolysis. Says she wants to do it around her bikini line and love trail, so she won't have to worry about that for various reasons. I say yeah that sounds great, if she wants to do it she should go for it, that it also would be hot. W says she is trying to exercise more so she'll look good in her bridesmaid dress. I say I can't wait to see her in it, I bet she'll look awesome. W says she is stressed about all the stuff she needs to do today. I ask her to tell me about it. She does. I offer to pick up dresses for D's for upcoming wedding so she won't need to do to that.
When we finish, it's time for me to take Ds to swim lessons. W meets me there after getting cornbread and slaw to go with the ribs. We txt a bit while she's getting that. We watch Ds swim and she shows me some convos on her FB and tells me about her convo with a friend. Then W wants to have lunch all of us together, but says she is stressed she might not have enough time because she has to go to spa appt in 25 minutes. I say, I don't want you to feel stressed, want you to have time to get into relaxation mode so u can enjoy the spa. How about I'll take girls to lunch on way to pick up dresses and u can unwind a bit at ur apt before u head to spa? W seems grateful and says, yeah, says we can meet up after spa for the ribs.
So, me and D's had lunch at burger place. Got end of Jets ridiculous comeback there. Picked up dresses. Now back at home. Ribs in a bit. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#26054 - 11/22/10 03:02 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] bustorama Member
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Rib night was interesting. Ribs were great. W was seeking compliments and assurance from me on various things, and I was giving happily. Told her the ribs were awesome (they came right off the bone, great from scratch sauce), recipe was a keeper, and I was looking forward to her making them for me again. She said yeah, they would be even better next time, did I really like them? Then W baked a banana bread with the girls. They were all so cute making it together. I offered help and did various AoS. W and I picked out pix together for book for my mom (for xmas present). W reciprocated by doing other things. I got a real sense of comfort from my W. She seems more comfortable with my telling her how great she looks or looked in picture than she used to.
I realized now something I hadn't realized before that alot of times when W is saying sorry she isn't helping with X because she is busy with Y, it seems she is actually seeking validation and affirmation for doing Y.
W talked about what a great weekend she had had. I said yeah mine had been good as well, I had enjoyed hanging out with her and the girls. W asked me if I could help her in the bedroom (she wanted me to help put on some sheets that are a nightmare to put on). I said, "Oh I can definitely help you in the bedroom." W displeased again. I keep self-sabotaging with this flirting.
She said something informative this time though (similar to what I've heard other WAS say) -- "is that what all this connecting and talking was about? Is that the only reason you came over here?" I said, I didn't mean for you to be uncomfortable. I was only flirting with you. She said I don't want to flirt with you right now. She had talked before about feeling like I viewed her as a sex object, and I guess she still feels/fears that my giving is coming with expectations (of sex), there's still distrust of my acts of love. That that's all I'm driven by. I need to lead to the point where SHE wants to initiate flirting, let her lead on that. There was a positive vibe going on up until I did that, though. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
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#26312 - 11/22/10 01:00 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama] LovingAnyway Board of Directors Treasurer Member
Registered: 08/05/10 Posts: 2214 What if W wasn't seeking compliments? What if she were listening to your honesty and wanting to really hear your thoughts? Sure can seem like fishing for compliments...if you think compliments really say anything about the other person, rather than the one giving them.
I'm celebrating your choice to show up, all your acts of love and your dedication to your marriage, Bustor. I don't think you blew it with the desire to flirt with humor.
Your response can be refined to speak more of your truth, though, instead of explaining it. You're spot on with the information she was giving you...your response affirming, validating and acknowledging it..."I hear you really fear me acting manipulative, only connecting and talking to get something out of you. I think I understand. I'm want real connection with you. I love talking and being with you. I now know I put my desire to hear you laugh ahead of you knowing you're loved. I got it. I will watch my temptation for humor and not give into it."
Her fear of you making her a sex object is hers. Don't take that on. You weren't insulting or wrong, Bustor. You were funny...and you got her distrust. You won't build it by responding with you wanting to control her feeling uncomfortable. You're not that powerful. Acknowledge her feeling uncomfortable for what it is...hers.
If she stated "That's all you're driven by, just getting sex" then say "Ouch" if you don't have a statement to validate it as her chosen perspective. Gives you a minute to detect where the ouch is coming from...taking her statement as fact (even if she states it that way) or not. Leading is not controlling...Leading is speaking up about what is yours, what is hers and what is the marriage's.
She'll get there. You felt positive, happy, connected and pleasure from your own acts of love. Keep that going for you. She reacted how she reacted. Validate that, too.
Did ya get the troublesome sheets on?
LA _________________________ The Paradoxical Commandments
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Originally Posted By: LovingAnyway What if W wasn't seeking compliments? What if she were listening to your honesty and wanting to really hear your thoughts? Sure can seem like fishing for compliments...if you think compliments really say anything about the other person, rather than the one giving them.
Ya, I put it poorly. The simpler explanation is yours -- that she cares what I think/feel about her, perhaps especially so because I didn't seem to before.
Originally Posted By: LovingAnyway Your response can be refined to speak more of your truth, though, instead of explaining it...."I hear you really fear me acting manipulative, only connecting and talking to get something out of you....I want real connection with you. I love talking and being with you. I now know I put my desire to hear you laugh ahead of you knowing you're loved. I got it. I will watch my temptation for humor and not give into it. If she stated "That's all you're driven by, just getting sex" then say "Ouch" if you don't have a statement to validate it as her chosen perspective. Gives you a minute to detect where the ouch is coming from...taking her statement as fact (even if she states it that way) or not."
I see. I hinted at some of this by saying that she was not a sex object to me, that I saw her as so much more (I won't every deny I am attracted to her sexually). She had said something about me as seeing her as weak (I guess manipulable???), and I said I actually see you as one of the strongest women I know, especially for what you have done here in the separation (referring to initiating the separation and her working on herself). I see how what you wrote above is a better way of validating her feelings about my flirting without "owning" her feelings/reactions to my flirting.
She made it clear shortly after that she didn't want any more R talk, that ahe had had a great weekend and didnt want to ruin it, and I nodded and switched the subject to the bedsheets.
Originally Posted By: LovingAnyway Did ya get the troublesome sheets on?
Ya, quite a struggle, but got 'em on.
_________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 I stayed home with D's today cause D2 is sick. Told W about it and arranged for her to come pick them up around 5:30 after she finished a project at work.
I called W mid-day. She said, hi what's up. I told her I was just calling to say hi, calling to see how she was doing. She said she was stressed about her project. I asked her a bit about that, anything I could help with? Then W asked about D2. I said well, she's still sick but seem to be doing better. Then W asked, "So what's the plan for later?"
I paused. It sounded like Catspeak to me.
My manbrain was thinking, you're coming to pick Ds up at 5:30, no?
Instead, I said, "What'd ya have in mind?"
She said, "I dunno, I'm kinda in the mood for sushi."
I said, "That sounds great, let's do Katana, and said to D5 who was standing next to me, we're gonna take mama to sushi after work to celebrate her finishing her deadline."
W and D5 seemed happy. Then W out of nowhere said, "I really had fun this weekend," as I was getting off phone.
W called a couple times in next 20 mins to get some help with computer issues with which I was able to help her. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 09/06/10 Posts: 1388 Loc: Gateway to the West NICELY handled!!!!!...... claps
Not2fun _________________________ If you aren't being transparent, then you aren't being authentic. If you aren't being authentic, then you are being a hypocrite."
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#26616 - 11/22/10 09:17 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Not2fun] LovingAnyway Board of Directors Treasurer Member
Registered: 08/05/10 Posts: 2214 Super kudos...way to go, Bustor.
You rock.
LA _________________________ The Paradoxical Commandments
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
Registered: 10/12/10 Posts: 1218 Quote: It sounded like Catspeak to me.
you have been trained well young SkyWalker. _________________________ You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end which you can never afford to lose with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
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#26813 - 11/23/10 09:18 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Coach] pookie69 Member
Registered: 11/09/10 Posts: 6390 Originally Posted By: Coach Quote: It sounded like Catspeak to me.
you have been trained well young SkyWalker.
_________________________ "A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand
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#27296 - 11/23/10 04:47 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: pookie69] LovingAnyway Board of Directors Treasurer Member
Registered: 08/05/10 Posts: 2214 LOL for both Coach and Pookie's posts. smile
LA _________________________ The Paradoxical Commandments
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
MALovingAnyway@gmail.com
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#27368 - 11/23/10 06:39 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: LovingAnyway] kimmie lee Member
Registered: 11/08/10 Posts: 2738 Loc: SEATTLE, WA I head off to meet my bud for a few beers and Jackass 3D.
You are such a GUY!! :rofl:
God bless you! _________________________ THE FOG comes on little cat feet.
It sits looking over harbor and city on silent haunches and then moves on....C. Sandburg
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Well, I haven't posted in a bit over a couple of weeks. Sitch has taken a severe turn to the south. Let me summarize the series of events (some bad errors on my part, some things I think W's issues) that have brought the current predicament:
1) 11/22: At the "celebration" sushi dinner, D5 started acting up like crazy. W, agitated, said maybe the dinner was a bad idea with all the uproar from the kids. I did several things to try to help with D5. D5 keeps being disruptive. It seemed to me that D5 was acting out because W was giving all her attention to D2 and D5 was fighting for W's attention. I said in a calm voice, "Honey, I think she wants your attention." Wrong thing to say.
W started cursing me out in restaurant, got up with girls and asked for bill. I went outside and W followed me out cursing more. W ripping into me for questioning her parenting in front of D's and making it look to D5 that W was not giving her attention. I told her you are right, I am sorry I undercut your parenting, especially in front of the girls. Apology not accepted, super pissed. W says maybe we shouldn't have dinner together anymore until D2 gets older (wtf?????).
W says she wants my respect, not my love. I let her go back to her apartment. Later that night, I leave an I'm Sorry card on her doorstep with some things she likes (Red Vines and flavored water) saying some of the ways I respect her, including her parenting, and apologizing again for undercutting her in front of the girls.
2) 11/25: Full day at Legoland with W, kids and W's cousins and cousin's kids in town for other cousin's wedding. Tiring, but generally good. Afterwards, we have Thanksgiving meal with W's extended family in town for W's cousin's wedding. W seems tense and angry at me at outset, seems to blame me that we arrive late. Seems tense about all her family being there, I think she feels judged by them that we are separated; she feels that they perceive me as Mr. Perfect, Mr. Good Guy, she is Ms. Bad Guy. (she has said this several times) Not much positive couple interaction.
3) 11/26: W involved in lots of wedding prep stuff and also completing some mutual 4 am Black Friday shopping (stuff for girls), so I offer to help how I can. She asks me to pick up some stuff for her, which I do, including the bridesmaids' dresses and the bride's dress. Later also is day of rehearsal / rehearsal dinner. D's are flower girls in wedding, so we participate in both. W again seems agitated. Seating at dinner is a cluster-eff. W sits where she would be between cousin's wife and our D2, and I would be 3 seats away from W across from her cousin. W seems agitated by D2. I suggest alternate seating arrangement where W and I could sit together and I could help with D2. Would involve lots of shuffling. Kids get confused on how to shuffle. W gets more agitated and annoyed by the seating crap, angry at me. Finally gets sorted out. D2 and D5 start misbehaving. D2 won't get out of W's lap. W acting very annoyed/irritated, says she has horrible headache. I offer to help and eventually just take D2 and walk to restaurant bar with her. D2 still bored, so I go next door to drug store with D2 and pick up some Tylenol. Come back and give Tylenol to W. By this point, W is almost ignoring me. W's parents and siblings arrive. I talk to them. W later thanks me for Tylenol and "everything else."
4) 11/27: Day of wedding. Previous night I had told W's parents who were visiting in town that we should get together for brunch with girls so they all could hangout (I had girls overnight). W would have wedding prep stuff with bride at 10. I had thought W would start out with us for brunch and leave. I call W. She is super stressed because of time, seems sleep-deprived. Angry at me, saying I am putting time pressure on her. I don't understand that she in fact did not intend to go to the brunch at all. I ask her if she has spoken to her parents. W still angry, why am I stressing her out. I say ok I will call your parents. Cannot get through to parents. Call back asking for W's mom's cell phone. W agitated, yelling, LEAVE MY MOM ALONE. I told W I had promised her folks and the girls we would get together for brunch, please give me her number. Some drama about cars being shuffled. W starts hanging up on me. I call back tell W this is not working for me. I can't have her treat me like this. More spew from W, THIS is not working for me either, eventually get W's mom's number. I have brunch with girls, W's parents and BIL.
After brunch, go to mall with BIL and D's to pick up socks for D's, undershirts for me and BIL and a Spanx thing for W she had asked me to get. Pick them up. Drop Spanx off with W at wedding hotel with D's to prepare for flower girl stuff. She is in full alien mode, almost no eye contact, alien voice, angry.
Wedding: I arrive with BIL. Go to wedding prep room to see what I can help with. W gives me huge armloads of stuff to carry back to car. W starts pouring champagne down my throat asks me to take lots of pictures. I think oh maybe we will have good time tonight. I take stuff to car, then go back to ceremony in time to start taking pictures. Nice ceremony. Officiant talked about 3 key elements essential to long healthy marriages. Talked about owning your mistakes, forgiving your partner's mistakes, and adapting/changing. I looked at W for much of service, but almost no eye contact returned. She looked mostly at D's.
At some point in reception, W's uncle came and asked me about sitch with W, said he was surprised and concerned. I told him I appreciated his concern and hoped things would work out. I said I knew W's initiating the separation had been a hard thing for her to do, but had been a strong move on her part and the right thing to do at the time cause our previous relationship had been unhealthy. I said I knew it had been hard for W, she had been struggling with depression. All this later came back to haunt me because uncle apparently started calling W in days after wedding trying to convince her to work on M. Said single life was hard, I was a great guy. Also said he was concerned that she had been depressed. W FURIOUS at me about this conversation, said I was trying to turn her family against her and make her out to be crazy. I told her how sorry I was that uncle had called her and that I had not intended in any way to throw her under the bus. Admitted it was wrong of me to even go into this much detail about sitch with her family, asked her what she would prefer I tell them and she said just to thank them for their concern that it was a private matter. She was so mad at me for this she didn't talk to me for 3-4 days until explaining to me what she was mad about.
W and I danced a little bit. At first we were dancing mutually holding D2, then uncle came and held D2 so we could dance just with each other. She did NOT seem to like this one bit, seemed super nervous and uncomfortable with the dancing.
Near end of reception, I come up to W and D's near our table. She is texting someone and I walk up she turns screen and sort of hide phone so I can't see. Both of us had had a bit to drink. I say quietly it seems you are hiding your phone from me, who are you texting? (ugh). W says I was just checking what time it was and saw a txt from my GF [name]. Was just responding to her. I flailed on accusingly, well would you mind showing me that. W said yes, but not now, not here in the reception in front of my cousin [seated next to her, I think she thought her cousin was hearing the exchange and was embarrassed]. I said, ok fine, later, how about in the hallway. She says yes, but is very angry.
Shortly after (before any txts shown) she tells me I am drunk and cannot drive home. I said to her oh I'm actually ok (I had had 2-3 drinks all night). She says no you're not. Then I said, just because you are drunk does not mean everyone else is drunk. Then she pushed me real hard in anger and left the reception room in tears. More drama followed and eventually I arranged for BIL to drive all of us home.
When we get to W's apartment, she starts saying she needs the kids, acting as if I am keeping kids from her the whole wedding. I told her I was sorry. I had meant to be helping her, that I had taken the kids to try to help her out since she had had all the wedding activities to arrange too, and I thought that was what she had wanted since she had agreed to it and even suggested it. I said I thought I would take the kids that night since she had been drinking and so she could sleep in, but maybe she would prefer them. She says yes, can I help her get them ready for bed. I help get them ready. When I am leaving I accidentally let an ILY slip, and she says ILY too back.
W later told me that any trust I had gained from her over the last few months went out the window with my power play move with the texting. That I had killed all the trust with that.
Few hours after I get home, W calls me and says D5 is having a croup attack, she needs to go to the hospital and W cannot take her cause she had been drinking. I go over there and am a little out of it cause I am sleepy (3 am). W asks me what is wrong with me, am I drunk or something. I tell her I am sleepy. I stay at hospital til 6:30 am with D5 (she needed steroids). She is fine now. W thanked me for taking her when I come back.
Next day, we go to see Yo Gabba Gabba with W's cousins and kids. Before going to show, W is all irritable. Her mom comes over with BIL. W lashes out yelling at mom with script she usually targets at me. Stop trying to control me, nothing I do is ever good enough for you, etc. D's have fun at Yo Gabba Gabba, but W seems alien-like. On way there, W says she is done talking to everyone. Says she has had it, doesnt want to talk to family, friends, anyone. Just wants to be by herself.
W cancels our having dinner with her cousin and kiddos. Says she is just destroyed from the whole wedding week. On way to retrieve her car from wedding hotel, W starts lamenting about how miserable her life is, about her neglectful parents, her abusive first boyfriend, her bad relationships, me cheating on her, and D5 being mean and abusive to her. D5 then says from back seat, Mom, I am sad that you made a second home. W just buries her head in her hands saying what's next. I told her I was sorry she was feeling the way she way, I really was. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 09/02/10 Posts: 12109 Sounds to me like both you are your wife should stop drinking..... _________________________ In the depths of winter I finally learned there was in me an invincible summer..Albert Camus
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 But wait there's more:
5) 11/28: W declares that she has deactivated FB. Says she has been spending too much time on there. Her account indeed is deactivated. Next day I notice it is reactivated. Also notice that all of my family members are banned from her account (and possibly other people). Not sure if she realizes I know how to tell if her account is active or not (she has my account blocked, but I know the link to her account and can view it when it is active from a dummy account). She has changed her profile pic a few times since reactivating it so she is definitely using it and not just a single login. I haven't asked her anything about FB, so it's possible that if I were to ask her about FB she would admit she is using it again.
6) 11/29: W tells me she has decided not to go to Houston for Christmas. I tell her I see and ask if she minds telling me why. she says because she would feel uncomfortable since we are separated, because of the sleeping arrangements and because in the past we always fought and had tension over Xmas. She tells D5 that same day and D5 starts REALLY misbehaving and telling W she hates her and other real mean stuff. W seems to blame me for it.
7) 12/3: W hardly called me week of 11/28 she later told me cause of fallout/anger from her uncle calling her about separation and cause of me asking to see the texting. Also said she needed space from me and everyone else after all the time together over wedding weekend. I think she told me this Friday night. I thanked her for opening up to me and sharing that with me. Told her I imagined the whole wedding week had been difficult for her, and I knew it was hard for her and also was brave of her to try to take a few of the steps towards me that she did (dancing). She thanked me for that and said yeah that I couldnt even imagine how hard the whole thing was. I apologized for the txt incident and re: overdisclosing to her uncle.
12/4: I have the girls. W had gone out previous night with her GF for her GF's birthday. W starts telling me how miserable the whole singles scene seemed. How pathetic the people seemed. How unappealing it all was. I said, yeah totally, did it make her think of working on us. W gets angry at me, says it makes her want to work on herself. Says she is just trying to share something with me and I personalize it and make it about us. That she can't even trust me to talk to me.
I totally lose my cool and go from that to saying, look, I see separation as a transitional thing, if we aren't working on reconciling, we should be working towards divorce. I do not want to stay like this and have you just going off on me any time I say something. W starts getting angrier. Says she doesnt want to think about it now with holidays and everything. I say, look there are two people involved here, and my timeline is now. She says something about being afraid what I will do to her in a divorce, if I will screw her over. I say if the only reason we are still married is because you are scared of getting and being divorced, then that makes me want out of this even more.
She calls me a couple of times during that day saying she can't talk about stuff like that anymore. It was too stressful for her. She goes to her company party by herself.
12/5: Sunday was the only pleasant day in this run. W txts and is friendly in AM. We talk and I apologize for being on crack in my response to her the previous day and in pushing her so hard. She tells me about her party and shows me some pics/videos. W feels gross about herself cause she is gaining weight and decides to start going to weight watchers. Txts me for us to meet and see Tangled 3D with girls after her movie. I meet her there, she brings snacks to smuggle in, I bring water. Fun at movie with girls. We had talked about getting trees for girls to decorate. Get tree and take back to W's apt. We decorate together. Fun for girls, pleasant night. W txts a bit after I leave.
12/6 Monday -- I called W at work asking a question about something with the house. W says about how much she hates the house, how it never felt like her house, how it always felt cold and unwelcome to her. Really getting worked up. Says she had told me she didnt want to hear or talk about the house. I say ok bye.
Apparently, W gets into monster fight with D5 over there after that (relayed later by both W and D5). D5 says she hates W and wants to be with me (playing us off each other). Next morning, W and D5 fought more. W calls me up on her way in to work and says she doesn't want me to call her anymore on nights that she has D5 because it just agitates W and it makes her fight with D5. I say I am sorry she feels that way, but I will respect her space.
So that's more or less where we are now. We exchanged tiny bit of txts yesterday and talked on phone maybe 5 minutes about girls. Today, I called her at work and said I know the last week or two has been real hard and crazy, and I want you to know that I am sorry if I have hurt you and if there is a time you want to talk about any of it, I'm happy to listen. W sort of gets teary on phone, and says ok. I also brought up the subject of a dinner groupon she had mentioned earlier in week asking if she was interested in doing that with girls and doing decorating at my place at some point. She said yeah, but couldnt talk about it now at work.
Called me back on her way home from work. She asked about doing Indian groupon tonight. I said I would love to, but tonight maybe not a good idea cause D9 was sick (she really is). W agreed. W talked to me about some stuff going on with her work for about 5-10 min. She said she was taking younger ones to gymnastics and dance tomorrow AM. I asked if I should come to that with D9. She said if you want. And I said, yeah, it would be fun.
So over a period of 2.5 weeks, ginormous slideback. My IC thinks alot of it may be related to the holiday/wedding/family tensions issues that arise from our sitch. Plus my bad mistakes re: asking about who she was txting to, the divorce "ultimatum" talk, the telling her she is drunk, the undercutting her mothering, and overdisclosing to her uncle.
Man, wtf is wrong with me.
Anyway, not sure now if I should just give her space and wait for her to warm back up to me or if I should be a little more active (but not smothering) about damage repair (or other?).
Edited by bustorama (12/10/10 11:32 PM) _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 356 Originally Posted By: believer Sounds to me like both you are your wife should stop drinking.....
Agreed.
I think adding to this is the months of the limbo/separation are starting to take their emotional toll on my self-restraint. I really need to reset myself and do a better job at finding other avenues for my impatience and negative feelings. _________________________ Me-40 W-36 D9, D5, D3 T-Since 12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
