Considering Quixote

[25yearsmlc]

Daniel,

This is a bit long b/c I think there are some opportunities here for learning more than what meets the eye. So here we go...

Please chime in if you have any opinion:


I'm a little confused here. There is a situation and an undercurrent here.

Re: the situation...so, let me see if I have this right. Your w had the kids out of town for spring break but stayed a bit longer to help her sister/dog...now she'd like to extend it a week more, but it's during the school year...

Is this b/c your wife does not want to come home yet?
Is that what's really bothering you?

B/c you mention the rental car AND your parents being available to come get the kids, and fly them home, so that, what? Your w can remain there longer? Travel more? Bring them home later by car, or what? Are those really the ONLY reasons?

Okay, I'll go with the assumption that the kids could get home via plane, and therefore the rental car is irrelevant.. And that leaves the issue of missing a week of school. Right so far?

VACATION---Are they with older relatives who have limited time left on earth? Are they doing fun, exotic things, even learning stuff, WITH family they are getting to know better and bond with?

In other words, What's the big attraction, beyond the normal bonding family stuff?
And what's the fear you have about it?

Are you concerned w is house hunting or job hunting there? Other than missing school (which I'm not minimizing), is there something specifically that you fear about them being there?


W wants to stay on vacation an extra week, despite the kids' school starting back tomorrow.
Which of these options is better for the kids?
Extra week of vacation?


Truly it Depends on the pros of the vacation and the cons of missing school.

There ARE times it is so worth it to miss school!!

We took our youngest d, then 12, to Europe in order to see her older sister perform in the theater in Europe. We also brought my terminally ill MIL.
Went to Venice,Italy, saw the show in Germany and stayed in Budapest too...We all learned a ton of history and art and geography...AND spent real time with dying MIl, my kids sick grandma.

-AND-- D12 missed 2 full weeks of school. It was So worth it (not just emotionally for the family memories d14 (now she's 14) will always have that otherwise she would NOT) and when I compare that to her "losing" b compared 10 days of mindless or tedious homework, a few interesting assignments she can learn over a weekend, or listening to a kid read out loud about something, or watching some videos and going to gym class.

CERTAINLY sometimes the travel & missing school IS what's best for the children... the answer DEPENDS on several factors...

The principal told me, off the record, that he'd do the same if he were us.

And at your kid's age, it's hardly academically fatal to miss a few more days.
Easter is coming up, so they may even have Friday or Monday off. So how many days are they really missing? And before a holiday or right after a break, there will be other kids absent, and the material will be slow getting off, imo.

When we lived in Alaska, we took vacations From there in the winter, like in late January. For a good 2 weeks.

I recall ZERO questions being asked about where we were going or where we were. But that's Alaska in the winter...we needed sunshine and everyone knew it.

I don't know your kids' schools or their requirements or flexibility levels, so we have to advise in a bit of a vacuum.

Daniel, is worth it in terms of the vacation/family time itself?

well, we know they are all young enough that they're not missing difficult concepts that will haunt them until college...but

Like I said, I don't have enough info to assess this.

Check yourself.. for an undercurrent I feel periodically popping up in your views.

Is it possible you're seeing her request as a "win/lose" thing, between your w and you? If so, WHY? And do you expect gratitude from her? Think about those expectations...

To me It feels as if you think she's asking YOU for a favor, as if it's costing you something, rather than you both making a decision about a -vacation vs school-.

Is there a way to be a "team" of 2 parents deciding things together here? 180?


Try not to look at it as a win/lose thing, b/c that is scorecard keeping all over again. Most Everything I say to you COULD be turned around and said about her but that's sooo useless. It's like 9 y/o's saying "I know you are but what am I?"

You are here and we are working on you, not her. Don't forget that.

Scorecardss will stink for your kids, forever...hey--instead of the same old,

show her a NEW way of problem solving that does not make anyone "right" or "wrong"...make sense? That would be a nice little demonstration of a 180, correct?


Daniel-IMO---for most women--
it is the PROCESS of decision making/problem solving, that is more important than the actual decision made. This is important to fully realize.

The PROCESS of it is a bonding experience, it shows real respect & love and commitment to finding solutions AND it usually results in better decisions. Plus you have "buy in" from both people so if the decision needs to be reversed or modified, no blame needs to be assigned. You can both, again, process the new situation and make a new decision... our judicial system is based on procedures that are more likely to free an innocent man than if we had none and simply were "winging" it...but in real life in our marriages, when we don't have a PROCESS for problem solving, we end up making bad choices, getting mad about them when they don't work out OR getting mad even though they did work out---b/c we were not included.

My h bought a snowmobile in Alaska. We had discussed it in theory. Then He saw a good deal and went and got it. I ASSUME the process was a few days but I don't know b/c he didn't involve me and I cannot recall why, or if there was a reason (other than I had a newborn).

But I would have loved to have been there and helped get it home, and feel involved. I was shut out. It bugged me a lot and even though the choice itself was a good one (it was a good deal) being shut out of it, and presented with a fait accompli, took much of the joy out of it for me. Like he took that away.

It's a small example but I hope it makes my point. Do you get what I mean? So focus on HOW you approach problems TOGETHER and come up with a process for it. Maybe see if the DB coach can advise or suggest reading for it...

I believe most women want to feel listened to, and included for decisions, treated with respect, not manipulation, no "decisions by intimidation" or a war

of attrition in which one person just wears the other out until they surrender/give in. [b] When you see that it's usually the same person surrendering, watch out.[/b]

That's such a common & destructive pattern that ends A LOT of marriages.
I'm not saying it's you, but that it's common.

SIDENOTE--The "surrenderer" usually ends up being the WAS, and the "winner" is usually stunned as an LBSer. The LBSer will say "but he never told me he was unhappy" and that may be true. But to the surrenderer/WAS, What good would it have done?

Most WASs have tried to warn their LBSers and many truthful LBSers realize that indeed, they were warned. But til the day of the bomb dropping, there didn't seem to be the need for real change...in their minds.

Something big enough had not happened yet for them to care enough to really CHANGE. When the bomb drops, they feel like they got hit with a ton of bricks.

But when they dust themselves off and begin to really LOOK in the mirror, often they see the warning signs they chose to ignore at the time...to avoid conflict or digging deep (Oh, the irony).

To the WAS who was constantly surrendering or giving in, shrugging & saying "it's not important"...(and sighing)

it may appear to others that it makes for a peaceful marriage. In reality, it builds up a lot of anger.

I've known 2 women who said they "never fought with their h's"....TWO, in all my years...one was my younger sister and the other a childhood friend.


Both of those women had h's who left them - and the women were SHOCKED & devastated by being abandoned.---- their h's were seething surrenderers, and maybe your w is too.

We, the witnesses to those marriages, were sad but not shocked...but I digress...


Daniel, when you write or speak, please be clear & direct-esp with your wife. Don't make her guess. Clearly stating what you feel or think, Obviously helps communication, but it's also a sign or responsibility on your end. AND that btings me to that undercurrent I was mentioning earlier.


Being clear when you communicate is responsible b/c it means you own what you say. You can handle the effect of stating an opinion, such as others not agreeing. "Hinting" is generally counter productive. It belongs on a sitcom.

It's a way of trying to squirm out of something later, with phrases like "No, I did not actually SAY that"--
so you can try to avoid being accountable for implying it a hundred times...


Sometimes you dance around things when you know your real answer, a truth about you, won't "sound so good"...if you "rehearse" it and don't like how it sounds but it's truly how you feel and you are embarrassed by that,

one of your options OUGHT to be reassessing that opinion. Maybe you're wrong and your conscience is guiding you or maybe you need to empathize more and realize that in the grand scheme of things, getting your way on a small issue, is not helping the grander cause.

If you really feel that you want something, but objectively let's say it's selfish as hell for you to expect it...then work on being mature enough to change that want of yours.

Don't pretend you don't have it, or hint around about it and then act offended when someone says "gee Daniel, that's a selfish request"...

For instance-when we were talking about porn in your marriage and how it did NOT help things...
Remember that question I asked?

I asked you how you'd feel IF
your w said sex with you was "sorta hard" on her b/c she'd have "to focus on you instead" of just herself, AND

that she often preferred "porn/self service" to making love with you. Do you recall that question?

You changed your answer and explanation first, b/c you knew it sounded pretty lousy.

And then you avoided answering the "how would you feel IF" questions...so that's where I was going with this tangent. Not to slap you about the porn, but to identify the rehearsed nature of your wording, and how it hinders your r's.
You need to know how what you say sounds--so you can own it OR change it for real.

Meaning, if something you feel turns out to be damn selfish or mean spirited, it does not make you a demon. But you have to stop rationalizing it OR pretending it's not what you said or wanted...

"owning it" means you can change it for real. You can deny yourself things that are harmful even if you want them b/c that's what mature adults do.
And it's worth it!

So Daniel, own your comments and don't expect mind readers in life.
I could not accurately advise here b/c it SEEMS as if you are upset and you won't say so or why... is it really that the kids are missing 4 or 5 days of school that bothers you? Really?

It's crucial to stand back objectively.

If you were your kids, which would bother you the most: would you be bugged about maybe getting behind in school and missing your friends for a week,

MORE THAN-

you'd mind missing out on being with cousins/grand parents, sleeping in and having a fun vacation?

you can also ask your kids...at least the oldest.


W would bring them back next Monday. I am fairly confident that she would, as the rental car is due back then (W is very worried about $), and it follows a race she was planning to run.

does the phrase "fairly confident" mean you are merely concerned about her timing the return, OR that you are worried she might NOT return?


My parents are able to fly them up here tomorrow night, so they would go to school on Tuesday. Then Daddy and they get to figure out what being a single-parent family feels like.
Neither option, I think, is wildly crazy.

I don't know what you mean here. Daddy is you. So are you wondering what a single parent's life is like? You'd take them to school and be with them at night, which is what your wife does now, correct?

And why do you say "neither option is wildly crazy"?

What's crazy about them returning now?

Are you trying to say you want them ALL to come home now - and anything other than that, is going to hurt you? That's okay to express, but be clear. I feel like I'm decoding.

Assume I'm a dullard. Assume I need you to tell me directly what is bothering you about which part of this. Otherwise this is too much guesswork and mind reading.

If i were also emotionally invested (as a wife & husband are) it would be too complicated & frustrating to deal with innuendo and guesswork.

Use declarative sentences to speak your mind, with as much love as you can...and when I say "speak your mind," of course I mean in a DB way.

You were smart to Post here and explore your options first... and remember to check yourself BEFORE you act or speak.."is this action/wording going to help my cause or push me further from it?"


Keep on posting and hang in there. We await more info...