Divorce....with a side of crazy...

[SunFunOne]

S15 can decide when or IF he wants to meet OW> it is his choice. Usually the walkaway spouse tries to force the issue and sometimes the kids cave. But they still have the choice. The trouble with the whole thing is that if he's anything like my ex he will say "I'm not going without OW". That means seeing the kids less. But my kids were ok with that and have held firm to the NO MEETING HER decision.

Barb

[imthemom]

yes..my L thought it was pretty funny, as did I...but today im not laughing so much. I hate that its come down to what it is now. Because of the completely outragaouse demands he had put in his purposal I was forced to respond with some that were just as outragouse to counter his...I feel like crap, thats not the way i normally handle my buisness in my life. Ive always tried to be reasonable and rational..in all my years of dealing with my son and his disabilities Ive had many IEPs with the school system and have a reputation of being that..so much that they will recomend me speaking to parents to help when there is a problem with other IEPs. I work for the school system and have a lot of contact with parents and special needs students.
I feel like this has just got into a huge mud slinging fight and it really doesnt even need to be that way..we dont have a lot left to split between us ...its just the support that he refuses to pay even though he sees us struggling and going without and he is living worry free running around spending money on ow while his sons quality of life is no where near what it was for the last 15 years. I dont understand how I tolerated 15 years of his alcoholism, taking care of everything from the kids to the house completley alone, before i gave him an ultamatem and moved out...then his affair and now Im this evil b$&*# that he hates so much....
How did I get here? I feel like im looking around and saying "what the H just happened????
I dont want it to be this way...I understand he wants to be divorced and I cant change that but all the uglyness feels so ...well, ugly. I thought we had more respect for each other then this....

[kat727]

I know how you feel. Ex said some far out stuff that cut to my soul. Sadly, we can't control what they say or how they act. Stay true to who you are because you have complete control there. You can get through this and stay true to yourself.

kat

[karen43]

Hi! I visit here occasionally, and saw your post. I have had some experience with a crazy ex. I went through all the court stuff; my ex filed requesting to give me no child support or alimony after a 20 year marriage. He requested I pay half his credit card balances, which had been used to pay for his lawyer and frequent trips with OW. But after the D was done, he did wind up paying child support and permanent alimony and I did not have to pay any of his credit cards.

In dealing with a crazy ex, I figure out what is best for my children and me; I will not agree to anything that will hurt my children. If your ex acts ugly or nasty, that is on him, not your problem. Things in court will probably work out way better for you than he expects. I have not had to resort to mud-slinging; I find that pretty much everyone just thinks my ex is a complete jerk. It will all work out for you also...

Karen

[25yearsmlc]

ok..Im really trying to stay calm, but I got his "purposal" offer and am completely freaking out!!!!...
I have an appt on Mon. to go over with my L but Im am really scared..
I dont even know were to begin but he is offering a quarter of the state guidlines for CS and a little over that for SS...because his L says he is not guarenteed the overtime he has always worked and says that I should be working full time (I havent since the day we married)

California will impute SOME income to you but they'll also use his highest wages to determine CS and SS...that's how they do it here. I don't know what his L is trying to do, OR if he's just listening to your h and abiding by that. But you have the W:-2s so in my opinion, that's that.

Yes you will need to work OR learn to live on less than you expect. But they'll impute to you a min wage job income if you have not worked in years, unless you have a certification for something or some degree. Let's say you were a Registered nurse years ago.

IF SO they'd impute the "average NEW RN's salary"....For us They also used my h's Highest income, not his new chosen LOWER income for the fellowship.

Also in California there was a case that IS THE LAW here, about "highest earned income". The case was about a CPA who divorced his w of many years.

He Left her and the kids and became a minister and wanted to pay support based on his new, much lower salary. The court said, "no, pay what your family was accustomed to, (despite your MLC").

The h appealed and said "but public policy says I'm a nice guy and I really do earn less, and I'm a minister and all, and this is what I make NOW"...(b/c I chose to switch careers damn the consequences to others who rely on me for support and have for their whole lives)

and the State's highest court said (in effect) "Tough. Do that great stuff for society on your own time. Why should your w and kids take a pay cut b/c YOU changed and YOU feel better now?"

So they based support on what the minister had made as a CPA a few years earlier...

I can't say for sure, but i would think the overtime is what you and your family are used to him earning and what you relied on... if it wasn't a fluke, that's that.

There is also something called "deliberate underemployment" on the part of some h's. Courts see through that. I would not worry so much, truly. Assuming you have a L that you trust.

And please do NOT accept less than state guidelines. That hurts you and your son. Why would you do that?

Every time you accept less you are saying you deserve less. Don't teach your h that.

and figured out the amounts based on his base pay and my "full time" wage...we have tax forms for the amount he makes every year and he has made at least 30 grand in overtime every year but does not want it figured in.
he has paid my truck payment since we seperated and wants to be reimbursed for half of that amount, he is asking for double the time we agreed to for our S15 and he hasnt even consistantly seen him for his weekends since June and I have also documented that ...but my L is saying S15 will have to speak to the judge now since he is of an age to speak for himself...he is so devistated by all of this I didnt want to drag him into it and we had already agreed on that.

any child over the age of 14, if he's not delayed in some way, would be privately asked where he wants to go. He won't be on a witness stand and he wont' be really cross examined. The family judge knows this [censored] for your son.


STBX works so much he cant even see him alt. weekends and the one night a week we set up...S15 just spent the weekend with him last weekend and that was the first time since Jan...He knows he cant have him due to his schedule but wants it on papaer so his support amount will be less.....WHO IS THIS PERSON???!!!

he is like 90% of non custodial walk away spouses...sorry but that's how they do it. When I did legal aid I had 4 different men saying they did not want to terminate their parental rights, as their ex w's were asking them to do. (The ex's had remarried men who wanted to adopt their children.)

Each of these 4 men was way behind on support. They adamantly refused to give up their rights as fathers, even if they had not seen their kids in months or 2 years in one case...but

when I suggested that they could have their arrears flat out cancelled if they let their children be adopted by the new stepfather...3 of the 4 said yes...

how sad is that?

I cant believe he is going to take this to that point...at this point I am not settleing for anything but have seen these men go into court and win on things that just seem obviouse that they should have to pay from friends experiences and I am terrified....

Um, WHERE, exactly, did you SEE that? You sure you didn't just "hear" it?

Who made you so afraid? If it is your L, hire a new one.

Yes There are horror stories out there - but in California - it's not a magical potion with crazy unexpected results that no one can predict. The vast majority of the time it follows a logical course.

This is a long term marriage with one person earning signficantly more than the other, and with a child...it's not that unusual. There is a mathematical formula they use.

The guidelines should apply. I think you'll be better off than you realize. Surely you'll be more secure than you are now.

Lose the terror. It's counter productive and may force you into signing something idiotic and bad for you and against your interests AND your son's...

we would not even survice on what he is agreeing to ....we would have to move and give up what little we have now...
after 19 yrs it has come down to he just wants out of his responsabilities and will do what ever it takes to get there....

I guess i wait to speak to my lawyer but I just feel so violated after reading those papers...

your feelings are natural responses to unnatural requests. But unfortunately it's like bartering now. The other side starts at a much higher (or lower) number than is reasonable and hopes to come out near the middle or somewhere...they know they won't get it and he knows he does NOT deserve it. Shame on him- except his L may be saying "it's a negotiation, shut up."

To me, this is not going to be that complex.

(MAYBE his L wants to gin up some billable hours and is acting as if there's a lot to debate).

My L was smart and fair and to the point. She became a friend, actually.

I wanted to argue a novel theory (for this state it's novel) and since this is community property (California is community property).

I thought my h's MD was a "marital asset" and I should get half of what that was worth...or maybe take a third of his income for life...I did want to argue that.

My L said it had a "5-10% chance" of prevailing...but it freaked my h out.

I didn't pursue it and we didn't get that far anyhow. But like I said

I believe you will actually come out of this ahead of where you are now. And you'll have predictability too. That will yield some security.

I hope there is a retirement fund somewhere, or another house or something for you to rely on when you are a senior. Is there?

If not, that will be something you can change when you know what is coming in and when.

[25yearsmlc]

PS

I didn't know your son has a learning disability...is that it? What kind? Will he be able to support himself someday?

And as for the state guidelines,---why look at those as the goal or ceiling of your requests?

I say look at those as the FLOOR and go up from there...like a sticker price(?)

but if your son has special needs, I really mean it. No way would I even discuss taking less than the minimum...

[imthemom]

thanks 25...Im actually not as worried as I was now that Ive met with my L and weve started our response...she agreed that there purposal was crazy. There is both an anuity and a pension fund that I will get half of and he is not fighting that...he is mostly fighting the support issues and has added other things, IMO, to have barganing power to that point. He is asking to be reimbursed for my truck payment that he has made since we seperated..(he lived in our house rent free for 2 yrs while it was in short sale so he paid the auto payment and insureance while I paid the credit card bills) Apparently there is law that says I am intitled to half the rate of what rent would have been in that house for 2 yrs...so we have offered to forgo that if he dropped the truck payment..its basically a back and forth to get him to drop his ridiculouse request.

My S21 in his SS...he raised him from the age of 3 but has had no contact with him since Aug. which is sad. they were VERY close. that is one thing that has really hurt me but im keeping emotion out of it. He is legally blind and has cerebral palsey due to a head injury at 6 months of age. He is not a factor in this since he is not his son but he knows (we agreed before we got married) that I work part time to allow me to be home to care for him since he cannot be left alone for long periods of time. I work now, and always have, around his schedule to be home when he gets home from his program and to be home when he is on spring and summer break. That is the whole reason I took this job with the school district 8 yrs ago. It was the perfect fit with S21s schedule. and he was always our first priority.
and at this point, S15 is in no position to be left alone all afternoon with the trouble he has been getting into, STBX knows this also, we have discussed it many times. I have worked part time since we got married 18 yrs ago. and yes he has consistantly brought home 4-5 times the amount I make and ALWAYS includeing OT...tax forms will show that.

My experience with the court system has been for myself (with S21s father) and a friend. My friend actually ended up paying CS to her ex becus he said he could not work full time due to a surgery he had yrs ago on his foot..but he was able to do other things with no problem. She did not have the money to fight it and he did...eventually she got the S dropped but not until after she struggled for years and had to work long hrs in order to support herself her kids and him...I know that doesnt always happen, but my ex also dragged me into court every chance he could to fight for custody of my S21 (he did not like paying support either) and thankfully my STBX made enough for us to fight him everytime. but it cost a fortune and we would always agree to drop his support amount to get himto drop the custody issue...

And everything that my ex did, that my STBX hated so much, is exactly what my STBX is doing now....from not being there as a dad to not wanting to support him. Obviousely I am looking at why I am ending up with these kind of men...and yes I am working on that everyday!!!! that is my concern now, working on me and being a better person with a lot more commen sense and a lot more self worth.

[25yearsmlc]

(sigh)

wow...well, first off, I'm pulling for you.

I'm so impressed with your strength in adversity, and your ability to focus on self improvement in the face of it all.

I DO think that's the one "upside" to DBing, regardless of marital outcome.

WE get better as people, which eventually leads to a lot more inner contentment, and you know, that matters a whole lot.

I can see why the loss of communication between your xh & your s21 bugs you so much. Yes he's a step son...but still. And fwiw, which isn't much,

My gut says that in TIME, when the dust settles and legal matters are not in flux, your xh may want to rekindle a r with him along with his own son...

I know there are some lbs'ers who find that so offensive and unfair that they object to it.

But 1) it really is not up to us, and 2) I think it's never too late for parent/child r's b/c one or both always seem to retain hope for reconciliation. There's no such thing as "moving on"....for a mother who gave up a child, for example.

3) the new r that develops, if it does, may not be perfect. OR it may be weirdly great compared to what the LBSer got.

I know my dad was a better grandfather than he was a dad to me, b/c when he became a grandfather, He was a recovering alcoholic, not an active one.

When I saw his gentle nature with my niece or my son, a part of me felt a sense of loss. But that was the little girl in ME....wishing he'd stopped drinking 20 years earlier (FOR ME!!!!)...

but now I believe that something a little positive, given late, IS still better than nothing ever given,

but
all this^^^ is for future debates, we hope...so, til IF & WHEN that happens, let's not borrow from tomorrow when today's plate is plenty full.


So S21 has physical disabilities only, but Is he emotionally mature and mentally able to function? Will he ever be able to support himself?

(Does his bio father do anything for him? I realize he's 21 now, "On his own" (??)

but with the blindness I assumed he'd get some lifelong support from you both. Since I don't know his level of cerebral palsy, I guess the question to ask now is What is your son's functioning level? Is his "program" that he is in, a college? Studying to be what?

sorry to ask, but Is self sufficiency something realistic to aim for, for him?

Wow, I can see why your oldest boy is such a father figure for the younger ones!!

I can also see, in a way, how much responsibility your h may feel and be fleeing from.

To folks who may be in a MLC, AND OR are recovering alcholics AND OR just want out of a marriage they feel was bad, having bills, step children and children of their own,

all seems to equate with feeling trapped. (Yes, it IS ironic, given your respective position.)

To them at this time, "responsibility" is a bad word.

ALL questions asked are "accusations", all requests are "Demands", etc.

What do YOU do with that?

I believe if you continue to behave as a woman of strength and dignity, NOT losing your temper, but remaining calm in the winds he creates,

never fueling his negative images/justifications for leaving

(or at least as little as possible)

then Your Dignity through all this, will confuse him and undermine his "data" about you, and you'll never regret it.


AND that there's a real chance the old h will someday feel comfortable enough

safe enough, to dig deep and find himself. That will allow the loving memories of a strong marriage & good times that you once had,

to resurface.

For now, stay in "self preservation mode" while also

NOT getting angry about it.

Do you Remember the concept of "turning your marriage/pain/anger over to God"? It helps!

We do that when it's too much for us to carry or it's weighing us down

and stopping US from being happy....

same goes for legal worries!!! Turn them over to your L (and God!)

The law favors you on most issues.

Your son's welfare will always be a concern but the 3 of them together, what a blessing they are.

Hang in there, you will do more than "survive" this. I know it.

[imthemom]

Al Anon has taught me alot about "turning it over" and I work on that every day. It has surprised me how hard that is to do, for someone like me, who has control issues..LOL! but I want to so badly it keeps me working on it. We have a "god box" at the meetings that you can write things down on a piece of paper and put in the box to turn them over to god..and I use it weekly!!

The situation with S21 has been a huge sorce of learning for me. I have always been so focused on him and what his needs were that I lost myself in that and became "his mom"... That was my sole identity. His D has always been involved with him but left all his medcial problems to me, and there are many. He has a hard time admitting that he has difficulties and preferse to ignore them. so when S21 had surgeries (6 so far) and therapy he left it to me and STBX to handle and STBX was always there. S21 has been majorly involved with Special Olympics and STBX was a coach as was I...his D did not attend any functions as he hated that s21 was doing sports with "those people"...so you can see what his attitude was about it.
At this time s21 is staying with his D, as hes gotten older he wasnted that and I felt like he has so little control of anything else in his life that I should let him make that decision so he goes back and forth between us for the last 2 years...He has the cognative level of about a 11-12 year old and doesnt really have the ability to attach at a level that we do, so he will one day decide he wants to come home and he will, then he will decide he wants to hang with the guys and go back to his D (who is single) and hang out at the "bachelor pad" with his D for a while..:) It makes him feel grown up...He is conserved under both of us and we both have his best interest at heart and try to work with that. He will never be able to live on his own or work enough to support himself but he does work a few hours a week threw his program and is taking some spec. ed. coursed at the local college.

I have always held out hope that like you said, when the dust settles that the relationships can be restored with all the boys. My s28 is the only one who knows that whole story and he is pretty mad at my STBX...They have also not spoken since this all started last summer, He is disapointed in the way that STBX has bailed on his son and that he has had to step up for him.

Ive told S15 that things are tense now but I know that someday things will be well enough that we will all be able to sit at the same table and have dinner together again as a family...what ever a family looks like for us at that point. S15 has said he misses that the most, when we would all sit together for dinner and just talk and we would laugh so hard the whole time...that was happening right up until STBX met the ow, and then he suddenly stopped comeing around...and then it all fell apart...

Im trying to keep some type of peace even though there are Ls involved and lots of tension...but its hard to speak to him like nothing is going on and have all the back biteing going on with the Ls...it just seems like we are enemies right now but I dont want s15 to see that so I "act as if" when he picks him up and drops him off...S15 spent the night at his Ds saturday night and come home yesterday, He actually was mad walking around the house counting the pics I have of him and his brothers and said his D has more pics of him up then I do and he was upset about that...I know he is just acting out but I never know what to say to him when he gets like that. It seems like it always happens when he comes home from his Ds and I cant figure out what hes angry about...well, I guess its obviouse but Im just never sure what to say...I get tired of being the one who gets beat up when he is angry but I guess thats my position right now..punching bag..:)

If it helps him Im happy to be it...I just have to work on not taking it personally.

[imthemom]

This post is for the most part to vent...am getting so frustrated with how STBX is bad mouthing me to S15 everytime he is around him. I have sent him 2 emails asking him to stop, that it is causing S15 stress and he shou ld not be put in the middle of our problems. Ive told him if he has something to say to me please say it to me..and not to S15 and have promised him that I would do the same, I think the fact that I covered for him and his ow for months and did everything I could to keep S15 from finding out would show him that. I didnt throw him under the bus...

Every time S15 comes home from spending time with his D he is so angry and disrespectfull to me and I couldnt figure out why..then he starts telling me things his D has said and I think, well no wonder. This weekend he cancelled on him but then ended up getting him for one night. When S15 came home he was in his usual fowl mood and I left him alone. Today he is talking about his D and says that he asked his D to take him to get some shoes...his D told him that I have more money then him and that he needs to quit asking him for stuff and ask me, and that he is broke because he is paying my bills.....OMG!!!...he makes 4xs what I make and I cant even buy groceries most weeks...I told S15 we werent going to talk about his D and left it at that but I really want to just sit him down and say "here, look" and show him his Ds paycheck stubs and show him mine....it would be very obviouse.

I wont do that because in my opinion that is not something S15 needs to be involved in but that fact that his D would lie like that to try to make S15 think less of me just makes me want to scream...
He is acting as if IM the one who did something horrible to him, like Im the one who had the affair and walked away from him...I have done nothing and he is constantly attacking me. Both times ive emailed him he says Im right, he trys really hard not to say anything, its not S15s problem its ours...blah blah blah....

Im at a loss as to what I can do....I guess nothing, but Its just so immature and ridiculouse that he goes to that level...AAAAAAGGG!!!!!

ok, vent over......I need to go for a run and get rid of this...