The Climb - Thread #6

[Denver_2010]

Ugh Navy. I SO relate to you and your situation. Your W seems to have so much anger built up inside of her just like mine does. I believe that they both have to get that out, heal, forgive, and ultimately begin to trust again, before any true reconciliation can happen. That may never happen for either of us.

I see obvious signs that my W gets that and is now trying, but for a very long time, I didn't see evidence of that at all. But something that I have learned over the past couple of months, is that even when I wasn't seeing outward evidence that my W was trying, she was. She has been trying throughout our entire S. I suspect that your W is too.

The anger that she displays is clearly a sign of a lot of hurt. Whether or not you agree with the reasons for that hurt, it is real to her. I did a lot of bad things in my M that clearly hurt my W. But it seems that I get blamed for a lot that I didn't do.

Why? IMO, it's because of the anger that they had to build up to use as fuel to leave us. Without that fuel, they would never have had the strength to leave the M in the first place.

The residual of their doing that though is that they convinced themselves that we were the sole cause of all that is bad in their world. Some of that's true, some of it isn't.

But it is true for them right now.

NOTHING that you can do is going to change that.

Only time will heal her Navy. Time and Navy being the best person that he can possibly be.

I have a couple of 2x4's for you, but take them with a grain of salt. You have been at this for nearly as long as I have. Or longer. I don't recall. Point is, is that you are an experienced DBer and hardly need to be told that your choices or actions are right or wrong. But they are my thoughts on what happened after the ball.

I was working on putting my foot down with regards to being blamed for my W’s misery and her treatment of me. I’ve had some successes and some setbacks as a result of this. I can’t say that the setbacks are really unexpected, but they still hurt. W still blames me for her lot in life, and anytime I don’t put up with that, she gets PO’d.

Quick note here Navy. I think that there is a difference between not putting up with something, and pointing out that you and W have covered particular ground, that you have taken responsibility for your actions, apologized, and have taken steps to correct.

Personally, I don't think that it's a good idea to shut your W down when she wants to talk. Even if that talk is redundant statements of how bad of a H you were in her eyes. You want her to talk to you. You want her to get her anger out.

But if you say, "W, I'm no longer listening to this", I personally think that you are minimizing her feelings by telling her to stop talking.

How about trying, "W, I feel that we've talked about how bad I was a lot. I feel like I've apologized and sought forgiveness from you. And I feel that I've done a lot of work on myself so that I don't repeat my mistakes with you or anyone else ever again. But, if you want to talk about this some more, I will listen. I just don't have any more to say about it myself." Something like that? And then, just listen.

I know that you have done A LOT of this over the last year+. Maybe you are at the end of your rope. I would definitely understand that because there have been numerous times that I have felt that way. Only you can answer that though.

Then W decides to say “you realize they’re going through the early stages of what we’ve been going through”. Ok fine…I understand that the other W is building resentment now, just like my W was when our D was born. But I see some huge differences between how other H and I. I don’t want to get into specifics since he is my friend, but some of the things I have heard he’s done and said really make me cringe.

So I respond to W: “I agree…but I don’t think that I ever treated you the way he treats his W. I was clueless and selfish at times, and at times was a far from perfect husband, but I don’t think I deserve to be lumped in with other H”.

Here is my main 2x4. You minimized the way that she feels. It may not be based in reality or fact Navy, but it is true for her right now. And frankly, she didn't even accuse you of being similar to other W's H. At least not the way that you described the conversation.

I think that you can validate the way that she feels without necessarily agreeing.

"Yeah W, I definitely wish that we would never have had to go through that." And/Or, "I wish that I had never hurt you the way that I did."

And W exploded. All the same things we’ve gone over hundreds of times, but this was certainly the most she’s ever yelled…she was really screaming at me. “You mistreated me for 6 years. You didn’t listen when I told you how unhappy I was. You weren’t there for me and D when she was born. You are such a selfish person. You don’t understand what I went through. You obviously still don’t get it. You’re pushing me, forcing me to share the bed with you, I only came back because you guilted me into it, Etc. etc.”

Sounds an awful lot like my W during the SB weekend. She spewed such venom that weekend. She told me later that it felt good to just let all of that out.

I think that you handled it well. Except for choosing to go sleep in a different room. IMO, from experience, that is never, ever a good idea.

I told W: “I understand you were unhappy, and I understand why. And as soon as I understood how unhappy you were (which I acknowledge was much later than it should have been) I did 4 things: figured out what I was doing wrong, stop doing it, own it and apologize for it, and learn how to start doing things right”.

W then told me I was changing my story and called me I liar. I told her I wasn’t and repeated the 4 things and that I know I have done them and will continue to learn how to be a better husband for the rest of my life.

Right here. You totally contradicted yourself. Earlier you were saying how you were not that bad. But here, you talk about how you were bad, what you've learned, and what you've done to fix it. I don't think that you are a liar, but you did contradict yourself.

Then W said she could never talk to me about anything and that is why she is so close to the BFFs. That every time they had a “girls night” it was so she could get away from being miserable with me.

That's how she feels. That's how my W has felt. Very recently, I've told my W that I want her to feel safe in telling me everything and anything. And I've focused on doing a painful amount of listening to my W. About anything and everything... not just how bad I was... although there is still plenty of that at times.

It's weird, my W has a lot of interesting things to say. And she's excited about life in general. It's actually made me really happy to see that side of my W.

We ended it there, and she went to get ready for bed. I went into our room and laid down for a second, then decided I didn’t want to sleep in the same bed as her. I went and slept (well, mostly just laid there awake) downstairs.

Again, IMO, never a good idea to leave the marital bed. I will never do it again.

D6 came down in the morning to play Wii. Shortly after, W came downstairs. I looked at W…and the first thing she said was “sorry about last night”. I said “I’m sorry too”.

I actually think that her apology is a very good thing. A sign that she still cares, and possibly a sign that she is trying in her own way.

I don't know Navy. I get that nothing seems to be progressing with your sitch. I do. I'm not sure if the answer is for you to tell her that you don't want her to be unhappy and offer her the chance to begin the D process, or if the answer is for you to just give her more space and time. Whatever wounds that she has that she puts on you took years to inflict, that is obvious. Maybe you just haven't given this enough time for those wounds to heal. THAT is definitely my situation, but that does not mean that they are the same.

Good luck my friend... with whatever you choose to do.

Denver