Wife of 6-Years is Divorcing Me pt. 6

[25yearsmlc]

It seems like my head and heart has been topsy-turvy. But first, I need to clarify a few things and recap on the history of our marriage and the separation:

- Left my career and home country Xmas 2003 and came to small (college) town Texas.


Why did you come? Did you already know your w?

Where did you guys meet? How long did you date?

- Went through major culture shock (but was in self-denial about it).

My future wife tried to help me, but I turned to porn in my private time alone.
- My fiance was also going through a bad bout with her parents. Later we found out through therapy that she was a victim of emotional incest by her parents.

- My fiance confronted me the first time when she found porn on my computer, I was aggressive and very angry. I threw a shoe across the room and held her against the wall (just like her father did to her mom, according to my wife)

Well....thanks for the honesty. I didn't know the way you reacted to her discovery. Wow...
At that time you were not ashamed, you were pissed, correct? (At least that is what SHE saw?.) How would you react to her discovering something like that, NOW?


- Married December 2004. The damage was already done due to my addiction, disrespect of my wife and my low self-esteem; I didn't see it at that time, but even our honeymoon was a disaster.


what did you think was going on inside the m? And IS she American?

- Despite pre-marital counseling and my promise to not use porn, I still used it. I was back to it even after the honeymoon.


So it's fair to say there is a track record of doing something that really hurt her, then lying about it and then promising not to do it again, a promise which you broke. Okay...she is still hurt and angry.

I was a POS; I didn't know what was truly important, i.e. God and my wife and I forsook both in a big way.
- 2005, we both started separate (same counselor) counseling sessions. I tried to deal with my addiction,


how? What changes did you make then? Were you able to stop?


she tried to deal with her past/parents/psychological damage. Shortly after, she decided to break all contact with her parents, and this went on for 6 years.

ok that^^^ sounds like a healthy response of hers, supported by her counselor, right?


- Had a hard time finding work. Part of me couldn't handle the disparity of coming from a great career to a small college town (and as an alien)

so you resented the downgrade you agreed to by moving there, or were you blindsided by it?

where I could only work as an illegal in Chinese restaurants or door-to-door sales. My wife was always the one who pushed me out the door to find work.

not sure what this^^^ means. Are you legally a resident or not? You got unemployment insurance so I assume you are legally present.

And isn't it natural she'd want you to work or go to school or do something? You were depressed and unhappy. That was harming the m. She was working hard and pregnant and you guys needed money.

Again, I'm not sure why you found yourself in a place offering you so little, only to be unhappy about it & react in a destructive way too.

Also not sure how you two chose to marry in the first place...any insights there?


- My wife confronted me many more times (once a year) over the next 6-plus years when she found evidence of me using porn. I would always first deny, then lie and get angry. Rinse and repeat. We were both caught in a vicious cycle.

well, YOU were "caught" repeatedly, which I guess IS a cycle.

But you still did not stop. That was very hurtful & very frustrating for her I'm sure. So what did your Ind counselling achieve?


- 2006, graduated from college and stayed a year to work and find out my wife's next steps (or more precisely, which med school she'd be accepted).


So, I'm confused. YOU graduated from college or she did? NOT Sure what all this means.

- 2007, moved to North Bay, CA for wife to pursue medical school. She wanted to be in family practice w/ OB-Gyn emphasis.
- I had a hard time finding work, even here in CA. It was a bad year for the economy. No production engineering work (which I was back in Malaysia) here; they'd moved to China. God opened a door in the training world and I took it. It was only a contract job, but we needed the money.

so you DID find work? Did you find any work at all while in Texas, other than delivery work? Did you have a college degree then?

- Not long after moving here, we found out that we were pregnant.
- Planned for a home birth. After a 30-hour labor, had to go to the hospital. One of my wife's ongoing resentment with me is for not stepping in when she felt that the midwife was screwing up the home birth. I followed along because I felt the midwife (as tired as she was) knew what she was doing, more than I did.

so she did not feel protected by you or that you fought for her? And this still bothers her?

Have you ever apologized for hurting her, however unintentional?

It IS very scary to deliver a baby, esp your first. I find her desire for a home birth WHILE wanting to be an OB, surprising. Was that HER choice or yours?

My paternal grandmother and aunt both died in childbirth. It can get very scary to be in a lot of pain and assume it means danger. Which it may...


- My job contract ended in Dec 2007, and I hunted until I finally found another training-related position in June 2008.


So she saw you unemployed for 6 months, while she was pregnant and in medical school? Just asking to clarify.

I was pregnant my 3rd year of law school and it ain't easy. I ended up finishing law school at night but if I'd had more than one semester left, I am not sure we could have done it.


- Aug 2008, our bundle of joy was born! My parents came to help for 6 months. My wife grew to resent me (and my parents) more because I didn't stand up for her when she wanted certain things done a certain way, but my parents did otherwise. I saw it more as misinterpretation on both sides.


Alamo, I'm sorry. But I completely agree with your wife here. NO parent, NO PARENT - should stay with an adult child that long, OR
with a couple who just became parents, b/c they MUST FIRST bond together and form THEIR own family...

unless the parent lives with them and that only happens when BOTH spouses agree to have an inlaw live there.


Never heard of any inlaw staying that long...OMG...and it so much worse when there's a new baby.

A parent can visit for a week or two TO HELP w/childcare or housework, not take over or disagree or make trouble.

The FIRST sign of trouble, they go.

Your wife did NOT get to decide or control who was in her home just as she became a new mother.

Alamo, It's NOT a "misinterpretation on both sides". it's You being conflict avoidant

AND not putting your wife first or getting your parents to leave so you 3 could bond as a family unit on your own. This was very damaging, imo.

Even now, I am not sure you can see that. Do you?

Nonetheless, I sat down with my parents to talk about it, but according to my wife I should've done right off the bat.

agreed.. Do you see that you waited too long to avoid conflict, and that your avoidance of dealing with it, actually worsened the situation? I'm not sure you get it yet.

- My bouts of addiction was still happening once every few months. I was growing tired of it personally; I knew it was a very bad thing, I knew it was serving me/us no purpose, but I still didn't let go. I still didn't have the resolve to say: "Stop. No more."


what can I say? Thanks for the honesty but my gut says she knew it was still happening and

she had no reason to believe you'd change. She probably wanted to see if she could accept the porn in the marriage, or if you'd get a job you liked, but she could not accept the porn and she began to feel you were not a good provider...

*** The 2 things people want in their spouses are as follows:

Men want their w's to 1) be attractive, and 2) have peace in their home (presumably means no nagging or yelling)

whereas

wives most value in h's #1) Security and #2) Fidelity.

Security means marrying a good provider so that a woman and her baby can count on dad to "bring home the meat". I think it's also feeling safe physically, AND that she will be protected by her h.

Fidelity means forsaking others...

Think about that.



- Moved to a nice home in Dec 2009 closer to my wife's school. Even with our issues - my addiction, my wife's crazy school schedule/stress, a growing child, etc - I thought we were making strides to be stronger. The hold of porn was getting weaker in me. Our sex life was getting more and more passionate. Our date nights were consistent again. But then...
- May 2010. Company downsizing led to me and most of my department being let go.
- June 2010. Wife tells me that she's separating from me. She says it boils down to two reasons: I'm always going to be addicted, and that I'll never be able to keep a job.


Ahem, no offense but, she has a point. What have you done that disproves or at least undermines these opinions of hers? Have you changed? How so?


Says she's been apathetic for a year now. She took the master bedroom while I took the guest room (my first weak resolve; she CHOSE to check out of this marriage, she should be the one staying anywhere else except the masterbedroom.)


-I don't know what you are arguing here^^^. That she inexplicably kicked you out or what?

Or that you were angry at first, like you were whenever she discovered more porn?


- I lose all sense of direction.
- Feb 2011. Wife moves out with our son.
- Mar 2011. Wife files for divorce. I respond a month later w/o a lawyer, not really by choice, but because I was jobless. I also move to a smaller place and close to our son.

how'd you move or pay for it or rent something, if you could not hire a L for 2 hours, to read your legal paperwork?

Were you just being conflict avoidant and passive again? Are you in a place that surprises you now?

Looking back, now, can you see how YOU GOT here?
It wasn't always by actions you took but also by actions you did not take.


- Quit my job Nov 2011 (because I was unhappy and for once the economy had picked up enough that I could shop around for another one) and found a new one in Jan 2012.

so you got a job, but then quit? And two months later you got another one.

You see how that Plays right into her negative image of you, right?

While you were working, did you hire a lawyer to represent you?


- Feb 2012. My wife informs me that she is moving to SC for residency and is taking our son with her. She says that I'm welcomed to move there too.

There are many other nitty-gritty details in between that definitely play into the whole picture since we married, but that's probably too much right now.

FYI, while together, her loans were NOT taken to keep us afloat. Losing work was usually unexpected and therefore the loans did help, but she/we never took it for living expenses. Unemployment benefits, significant cost-cutting and tax returns helped out quite a bit, though.

After she moved out she did come up with a figure (approx $4500 - I can't remember at the top of my head) that I owed her for the times she helped me and my parents (we lent some to them when their nursery school was hit bad in 2006-7). Since then, she chose not to pay her half of our son's daycare fees, which is fine to me.

So you guys lent your parents money and they lived with you

or was that a separate time?

FWIW, with your dire finances and inconsistent work history, how do you feel that lending your parents money you really didn't have, made your wife feel?

Also, my wife is the one who requested alimony and child support. I'm not pursuing any of that.

That ^^^ makes more sense now. She will have him more, unless you fight for him. I doubt she'll get alimony for long, if any.

In terms of the 30% time ratio -- the only way to enforce it, according to my lawyer, is to proceed with the divorce process and go into mediation. You probably have read from my earliest post that my wife wants a divorce, not me.

well what is it that you offer her as an alternative to divorce? Be specific and detailed.

And does this legal belief that only by acting, legally, can you assert your rights as a father, mean you'll do nothing but wait and see?
Has that worked for you so far? I'd see it as giving up on son.

I wonder if it's Passive, conflict avoidant and then later you can blame her for leaving.

Any truth in there?


According to some family counseling people I've talked to, one of the biggest turn off to wives (yes, even WAS) is if the husband goes through with the divorce. It shows that they've given up.

once she files for div, which she has, then you doing nothing in response, screams of "giving up" and passively throwing up your hands.

It does NOT send out the message that you are fighting for her or the m or your son.

The days leading up to my wife leaving with our son (in Feb 2011), I was tempted to just hold on tight to him and not let go, but as I journaled here, it was creating a lot of duress with my wife.

Back then, when I first started DBing, it felt like the more I did, the more it pushed her away, so I backed off. Plus, she was doing all this hostile conversations in front of our son and I did not want him exposed to that. I'm paying for it now, but at that time, I thought it was prudent to do so.

Marriage as a contract. Well, I can go into the whole spiritual/religious aspect of it all when couples vow to each other before God. True, I respect my side of the vow, but let's not forget that the vow applies to both sides -- through THICK and THIN, through the HIGHEST and the LOWEST and so on. My wife has her own responsibility to uphold her vows. She chose not to. On a spiritual level, God has NOT released us from our vows to Him. He hasn't given up on us, so why should we do the same to Him or each other?


...Not to enter a contest here, but do you feel you upheld your vows to her?

You don't think you broke them first?

Do you see how she might view it very differently?

Another FYI - since separation, my wife has changed the reasons why she left me.

maybe she's adding to her list b/c I don't see the need for her to change her reasons. The porn thing alone suffices for most women.

But seriously, what difference does it make NOW?


Last week when she told me I haven't changed, it was about money, she said. That "I still use/keep money behind her back."


b/c you kept the tax refund? B/c she didn't know about your new job?

She also says that I'm a walking liar. I stopped her and said that when she left our home, she said that had enough of my porn addiction and the lies that went with it. It was never about money.

actually you wrote above that one of her reasons for leaving was your lack of work. So that's a money thing, isn't it? What's new here?

And keeping the tax refund probably seemed dishonest to her. So maybe that is what she means.


I admitted that my lack of work put us in tough situations, but that was never the main issue.

Who says? And so was it the finances AND OR the porn?

Alamo, Why does this matter NOW?

She didn't respond to that and changed the topic back to why she's just taking back what she put her effort/money in during our marriage. I responded, "Well, if that's true, I'm right here. Of all the things you spent on our marriage, you invested the most in me." She said, "Money and things can't hurt me."

I replied, "That's true. I can understand how much crap I put you through. But this experience has been good to me...for my addiction and all. In fact, your leaving was the best gift you gave me that brought me to where I am right now." My wife said, "It was the best gift I gave myself too."


both^^^ things can be true.

Another point: Not to downplay why she left me -


this whole paragraph below DOES downplay why she left you. She was clear as to why she left, and had good reasons, to be honest.
To me, ALL this stuff below is deflecting from your role, and what YOU can now do ----which is focus solely on yourself and your personal work.




I strongly believe that the psychological damage caused by her family created in her (and still does, IMHO) low self-esteem, self-mutilation (she'd cut herself), severe grudges (her parents had cut off ties with their own families. Long story) and a sense of justice (that people own them for the hardship - real or self-justified - they've been put through). This is not speculation or my theory - her parents/family have disowned their parents, god-parents and even children. When I first moved to TX, some people had advised me that if her family had a history of disowning even their own blood, I better not get on their bad side either. Did I listen? No.

How does ANY of that address your porn, your lying about it, the broken promises to stop it, the anger you expressed to HER, when she discovered yet another betrayal by you,

AND the way you put your parents ahead of her, and her sense that you were not a good provider?

Those were legit reasons for her to feel unloved and uncherished and you admitted it HERE...so what is all this deflecting now? It's
irrelevant (and UNcontrollable) crap...

and None of it addresses the real issues of why she left.

So you are still NOT targetting the right things to work on or talk about or spend your energy on...still.

I don't get it. Where's the DBing? Why would SHE believe YOU have changed?

Help me understand what you think happened.