MC says to call it quits

[Accuray]

Sorry Oldtimer, I saw this and read it. Responses below:

Suppose there is a child who acts out, the parent reacts badly, the child sulks until the parent patches thing up by giving the child a piece of candy. The child gets very good at sulking. The parent tries to hold out, but pays in the end by putting up with the sulking for a very long time and ending it with only double the candy. In this case, "giving in" or "having no backbone" does not improve the relationship, indeed, it reinforces unhealthy patterns.

Better would be to (1) stop reacting badly -- the parent needs to quit playing the same role in the pattern, and (2) do something different than battling wills and giving candy in reaction to sulking, like, for instance, detaching from the sulking, go about business as usual, be normal and positive, etc...

I understand completely what you're saying but I'm not sure how to apply it. I feel like it was me that was sulking after the "no" versus W. I realize I was sulking. It is very hard for me to respond positively when I would really like to have sex and W says "no".

That's not every time I would like sex. Sex drive for me goes in cycles. At some times I don't want it at all. Other times I can take it or leave it, and some times it becomes very important to me. It's the last instance when it's the most difficult to be rejected. In the other cases I can go on my merry way and you'd never see a post about it.

I realize the fact that it's "hard" to respond positively isn't an excuse, and I also realize this is a change I need to make. I am working on it, I'm not there yet. It's a work in process. I have realized that it's easier to let it go if I don't then hug W after the no. That's in "The Solo Partner", if you feel reactive behavior coming on, apply physical distance until it passes. That may appear to W as punishing behavior or sulking when in fact it's coping behavior. At one point I explained that to her.

To me, it seems you and W have a similar dynamic going, you ask for sex, W responds in an unloving manner, you react badly, she sulks, you give her the mea culpa candy of being the bad guy, rinse, repeat.

Not always, since piecing W has usually responded in an "accommodating manner" -- I guess you could construe it as loving as she's doing something she doesn't necessarily want to do for me. Obviously an accommodating manner is different from an enthusiastic or engaged manner, but it's my challenge to either accept that this is how it is with this woman or leave. MC made that very clear -- there is no changing it, only take it or leave it literally.

The first thing to do is to stop reacting badly to quit playing your role in the pattern. Make a list of different things to do: take some space and self sooth, make a flirtatious joke about next time, suggest an alternative like a cuddle. Maybe only the first of these works, who knows? Experiment and find something that does.

Yes, good advice!

The second thing is to detach from the sulking and leave it alone. Go about business as usual, be positive and upbeat. Detach. It is HER sulking, you needn't own it.

Yes, good advice again. Once again, challenging and a work in process. I have realized this and am progressing on this path.

Nope, I haven't read that book.

The book is great, I recommend it. It talks about "The Pursuer / Distancer Dance" which I very much identified with. To your point, it talks about the fact that we get into patterns in our relationship, and the one feeling the most pain from the pattern needs to be the one to do the work to break it.

I believe we were in this pattern. I wanted more emotional (and physical) intimacy than W. She told MC she wanted more distance in our marriage than I want. This imbalance lead to pursuing behavior on my part. When W wouldn't reciprocate, I would get frustrated, upset, and try harder.

The book says that to break this pattern, I have to stop pursuing and distance. If I distance consistently, either W will start pursuing, or she won't, which would mean she's done with the relationship.

It says that once the pursuer starts to distance, the distancer will wage a no-holds-barred campaign to get the pursuer to pursue again, but once they do, they will start distancing again, and that's the dance. As soon as I start to pull away, W will do just enough to pull me back in, and then retreat again. That pretty much summarizes what's been happening.

The book also says I need to drop my expectations for anything better. It says to assume that W will never be any more loving towards me than she is now. Feel sorry for myself, grieve that fact, get through the pain, and then decide to stay with that reality, or leave. That speaks to acceptance, which is basically the same thing MC told me -- accept things as they are or leave, there is no path to improvement based on where W is now. He said that W has accepted herself and the relationship, and is therefore not motivated to do anything differently. To try to encourage that will only lead to frustration.

So WRT the advice in the Solo Partner, I cannot continue to want more intimacy than W wants to provide. That is a state of imbalance that is not sustainable. That leads to me feeling like I'm always doing more and not having my efforts reciprocated.

Therefore, I've been distancing, I've been taking things down to her level and seeing if I can be comfortable there. I do not initiate hugging, I do not say "I love you" unless she says it first. I don't have R talks or talk about how I'm feeling unless she does.

This has obviously taken a lot out of our relationship, because she would sometimes reciprocate or mirror when I would initiate. When I don't initiate, she initiates much less frequently or not at all.

She's noticed this and it bothers her. She told me that she's noticed that I've withdrawn. She said that my behavior is making her anxious. She said that she knows I'm not happy with her, but I'm not talking about it. She keeps asking me to talk about how I'm feeling. I told her to talk about how she's feeling, and we can discuss our feelings together. She said "no".

I'm not being cold or distant, I'm being happy and friendly, just not intimate unless she initiates. I'm finding happiness through my own activities (GAL, etc.). I've been reaching out to her to connect less, because she is not initiating connection and I don't want to always be the one to get things going.

"The Solo Partner" says that the distancer will believe they can get more out of the relationship than they are willing to put into it. When the pursuer stops pursuing, they feel this loss and want it back, so they'll do just enough to try to restore it. I'm not going to bite.

"The Solo Partner" also says that what I'm doing will make things worse before they get better, and that is definitely accurate, things are worse, but I'm not ready to give up. It would be very easy for me to start making overtures and providing assurances again, I would love to do it, it would feel good to me, but I know where it's going to lead.

W historically complained that she felt she didn't measure up, that I has expectations that she wasn't capable of meeting. I have checked in with her recently if she still feels this way. Based on her response, it's clear that my distancing and taking things down to her level has relieved this problem for her, but it's replaced it with having her not feel pursued. I don't know which one is worse for her.

None of this stuff is sexual, the sex topic was a lightening rod on this board. Sex is the tip of the iceberg, the stuff below the waterline is more important to me.

With that perhaps more complete picture, I'd be interested in your feedback Oldtimer, although it would probably help if you at least browsed through the book.

Accuray