Detached, but not Broken-a diary of a LRT

[Broken74]

Thanks Yas, I agree with you she even used those words herself in January. Now that things are even keel between us that has made the detaching a lot harder. Our interactions have been pleasant and positive recently.

As far as the catalyst for where we are primarily:
1) I was verbally abusive (alcohol induced) on a handful of occcassions during our 1.5 year marriage, I think primarily driven by the financial stress I was feeling as well as the stress of acclimating in the role of stepfather to my 3 stepchildren.
2) After she hit her "breaking point" but prior to our physically separating, she started an EA with another man.
3) Things got really ugly after I found out/called them both out on this/confronted OM etc. He now carries a concealed weapon around apparently for fear of me for whatever reason, aside from being a 5'5 Clay Aiken look alike he has no reason to be scared, he's not worth my time ;-).

Hey maybe I'm growing as I can air my faults without saying but I did this, this, and this now... ;-)

Most of our texts are general conversation now, since the dealings with the kids are her responsibility now. I have tried to be involved, asked to do things with the kids but that is a no-go at this point because she doesn't want to "confuse" them. But it is ok for them to approach me when it is fundraising time at school, and I welcome that.

I honestly am not trying to bribe and control her, but I am pointing out what she already knows in that her life would be much easier with a partner. I have always been there for her and sadly I still am and she knows this... That is part of my trying to show unconditional love for them though.

That is a good idea to set up a monthly deposit to the college funds, if nobody else is going to invest in their future at least that's something I can do.

She can't see my changes and she still doesn't believe I don't drink.

The frustrating thing for me now is that as far as our interpersonal relationship goes, it's the best it has been in the past six months. There is obviously no love being shown by her (aside from her genuine concern when I was visiting the hospital), but our communications are jovial and pleasant, almost like the early dating days. The problem is this is making me have EXPECTATIONS that something more signifiantly positive is going to happen soon. I really think she is starting to see the light just a little bit, but perhaps this is mind reading.

I feel I am in the best spot since all of this started, and even though that may the case trying to DB is harder than it has ever been...

Thanks again for your feedback and thoughts Yas as always they are greatly appreciated! :-)

[25yearsmlc]

a few small 2 x 4s

Thanks Yas, I agree with you she even used those words herself in January. Now that things are even keel between us that has made the detaching a lot harder. Our interactions have been pleasant and positive recently.

As far as the catalyst for where we are primarily:
1) I was verbally abusive (alcohol induced) on a handful of occcassions during our 1.5 year marriage, I think primarily driven by the financial stress I was feeling as well as the stress of acclimating in the role of stepfather to my 3 stepchildren.


How has any of this^^^ changed? Why or how would you interact differently with the kids if you were to reconcile?


2) After she hit her "breaking point" but prior to our physically separating, she started an EA with another man.
3) Things got really ugly after I found out/called them both out on this/confronted OM etc. He now carries a concealed weapon around apparently for fear of me for whatever reason, aside from being a 5'5 Clay Aiken look alike he has no reason to be scared, he's not worth my time ;-).


she feared you enough to get a restraining order, correct? And OM fears you enough to get a gun? is it possible you are, intentionally or not, intimidating to people?

Do you think that is attractive?

Hey maybe I'm growing as I can air my faults without saying but I did this, this, and this now... ;-)

Most of our texts are general conversation now, since the dealings with the kids are her responsibility now. I have tried to be involved, asked to do things with the kids but that is a no-go at this point because she doesn't want to "confuse" them. But it is ok for them to approach me when it is fundraising time at school, and I welcome that.

I honestly am not trying to bribe and control her, but I am pointing out what she already knows in that her life would be much easier with a partner.

that^^^^ IS bribery and trying to control. If she "already knows that" then why on earth are YOU pointing it out? Stop that.

You complain that you are in limboland and that you are not "really" DBing...so how can WE help you since that forms the basis of our approach?

I have always been there for her and sadly I still am and she knows this... That is part of my trying to show unconditional love for them though.

That is a good idea to set up a monthly deposit to the college funds, if nobody else is going to invest in their future at least that's something I can do.

She can't see my changes and she still doesn't believe I don't drink.


b/c you are still pointing things out that she already knows, which is verbally, at least, more of the same old you. And b/c you DO still drink. You said so yourself.

A "handful" of verbally abusive episodes that deeply wounded & frightened her may not seem like much to you (part of the problem) but in 18 months of marriage? That is a LOT.

and IF I truly believed alcohol was a factor at all - in the demise of my marriage, it would be an "allergy" for me that I'd never touch again. Simple as that.

The frustrating thing for me now is that as far as our interpersonal relationship goes, it's the best it has been in the past six months. There is obviously no love being shown by her (aside from her genuine concern when I was visiting the hospital), but our communications are jovial and pleasant, almost like the early dating days. The problem is this is making me have EXPECTATIONS that something more signifiantly positive is going to happen soon. I really think she is starting to see the light just a little bit, but perhaps this is mind reading.

I feel I am in the best spot since all of this started, and even though that may the case trying to DB is harder than it has ever been...

Thanks again for your feedback and thoughts Yas as always they are greatly appreciated! :-)

Detach and back off. Don't point out your changes. That itself would be a change.

Be kind and gentle to her and concerned for the kids. Help them when you can but have no expectations of them. That truly does help bring you closer.

[Broken74]

Thanks 25, I greatly appreciate your taking the time to review my sitch and provide feedback.

Regarding the kids, I have read and reflected a lot. They truly need a positive role model in their lives, because their respective fathers certainly are not. I am ready to treat them as my own, should I be afforded that opportunity in the future. I really do miss them and the things we used to do.

The OM certainly was intimidated by me, and he had a right to be at a point in time, but worrying about me now is his own head messing with him. Even though I forgive them both can't say I mind lol. My wife tried to get the DA to drop all charges. She filed the restraining order as a means to an end to get me out of the house, so she could try to rekindle the EA that I busted up. I am a physical presence but I am generally not an intimidating person, my W would attest that she never feared for her physical safety. All this being said I understand that her viewpoint may be different, as perhaps she though differently since she got caught outside her marriage with another man... As you can see this still gets me spun up but I continue to work in this area.

I see your point on the bribery and how that can be construed as controlling. What I can't figure out is how to apply the DB principles while at the same time "be kind and gentle to her and concerned for the kids". That's what I have been trying to do, but I can't go dark/LRT and be kind and gentle to her and concerned for the kids, unless that just means responding in kind when she reaches out to me... Which I realize is what I need to do.

25 you really have a way of making me be able to see her perspective. You're right, the handful of beers I've had were at work related functions, and there's no excuse for it, but I haven't got intoxicated. I know that doesn't matter.

I am going to heed your advice 25, it will be easy for me to back off for the next few days at least, and if she reaches out I will be kind and gentle as I have been for her and the kids, and see where it goes from there.

Thanks again for your feedback it's much appreciated :-)

[Yasu]

Broken, I'm not sure 25 touched on this. This Uncondional Love you speak of, does not mean you will come back to your wife on whatever terms, or no matter what happened in the past.

It is more like the way your love would not change for your Mother if she were convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison. The love for your mother would not change, if it is there to start with. The reason it won't change is because it is unconditional.

I may not be quite on target with my example. And please DBer's reuse me if I am wrong. Broken, I am now just starting to wrap my own head around these concepts - so please forgive any confusion I may have. However, you may learn from my journey.

When you spoke that your wife knows you will come back to her no matter what, I'm not positive that is unconditional love - in, at least, the CONTEXT of your post (particularly 25's observations).

Recently, I made a serious judgment mistake. I thought my six months away had helped me develop detachment. Indeed, I developed a withdrawal from my negative encounters with husband, and was busy with a big renovation project, and had made a number of new friends.

My mistake was equating withdraw with detachment. I am not detached. In fact, after now in my fourt year of this separation, my new therapist pointed out to me that in terms of the grieving stages, I'm hovering around "bargaining" and bouncing into denial once in a while.

...note. Going thru DB process, detachment, real detachment is absolutely necessary or you will remain in denial. There are some posters where you can see this. I'm close to being one of them, that is why my final boundary is to endure the Court system once again in my life. Not of my making. Anyone that would put me thru something like that has crossed a nonnegotiable. Actually, just the threat has sealed the coffin for me.

Please learn about real detachment. This will enable you to discuss matters with your wife in a business manner, and allow you to listen and learn from her as you grow during this period that she asked you to leave. This is a gift of time, and unconditional love will always be more preferable to anger, one-ups-man-ship, causing jeleiousy, or using intimidation - no matter what subtle form.

I will keep reading your thread, as I have to keep working on detachment and GALing. I'm feeling so much better with my new medication! It sounds like a crazy a$$Ed dose, but it is really working. Today, I finished, copied, and over-buggers one year's worth of financials, credit card statements, retirement fund statements, bank accounts, etc. I even made a copy for opposing council. Wasn't that nice of me! (I had some help!). But it's done! Yipee! Best to you. Yas

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks 25, I greatly appreciate your taking the time to review my sitch and provide feedback.

You're very welcome. I believe you are trying in your way. Let me show you a few patterns you have you MAY want to change.


Regarding the kids, I have read and reflected a lot. They truly need a positive role model in their lives, because their respective fathers certainly are not. I am ready to treat them as my own, should I be afforded that opportunity in the future. I really do miss them and the things we used to do.

good^^^so, HOW will YOU interact differently with them if you are given that chance? Be specific. Envision it in some detail....

The OM certainly was intimidated by me, and he had a right to be at a point in time, but worrying about me now is his own head messing with him. Even though I forgive them both can't say I mind lol.

my gut says "no you have NOT forgiven them". A part of me wonders if this is about "winning" her back...Not so much loving her but just not wanting to lose.

Do you understand my concern? (You don't have to agree w/it, but do you see it?)

you did not really address my question about your apparent ability to intimidate or whether you believe it's attractive. Or seen as a strength?


My wife tried to get the DA to drop all charges. She filed the restraining order as a means to an end to get me out of the house, so she could try to rekindle the EA that I busted up.

See, this^^^ just strikes me as more deflecting and "tit for tat" and more denying what "really" is your wife's perspective. I think deflecting is a pattern for you to avoid digging deeper.

I truly am not sure you get where SHE is coming from. And if you don't or can't, then that's bad news.

I am a physical presence but I am generally not an intimidating person, my W would attest that she never feared for her physical safety.

so did she lie on the petition for a restraining order? Would SHE SAY she lied?


All this being said I understand that her viewpoint may be different, as perhaps she though differently since she got caught outside her marriage with another man... As you can see this still gets me spun up but I continue to work in this area.

see, HERE^^^ you blame her for maybe having a different viewpoint of YOUR behavior by deflecting and attacking her for being "Caught outside her marriage with another man"....

what does THAT have to do with whether you are intimidating to her?

To justify it? Oh, that would be another pattern for you then, wouldn't it?

I see your point on the bribery and how that can be construed as controlling.


What I can't figure out is how to apply the DB principles while at the same time "be kind and gentle to her and concerned for the kids". That's what I have been trying to do, but I can't go dark/LRT and be kind and gentle to her and concerned for the kids, unless that just means responding in kind when she reaches out to me... Which I realize is what I need to do.

you answered your own question. It means you do NOT have control over if and when she reaches out, but you DO have control over how you react to it.

I don't see how being kind, gentle & ethical will ever be something you regret.


25 you really have a way of making me be able to see her perspective. You're right, the handful of beers I've had were at work related functions, and there's no excuse for it, but I haven't got intoxicated. I know that doesn't matter.


I'm the daughter of an alcoholic w/a PhD, and 3 other graduate degrees who functioned quite well at work. When he drank, which he did for a solid 20 years (nearly all of my childhood) he was often goofy, and or verbally AND physically abusive and irrational.

I could never understand how he could wake up in the morning and see the wreckage he'd done the night before, (even if he literally could not recall it--it was him) and NOT stop drinking cold turkey. Seemed we were not important enough for him to stop. But I see his addiction now for what it was, a disease. I only wish he had the tools that we have now.

I KNOW that If I ever hit my spouse or kid

OR called my kids ugly names and ranted/vented on them "BECAUSE" I'd been drinking...(which is me using alcohol as my excuse), then it'd be something that never touched my lips again.

My father died when I was about 30, of liver cancer (yes from drinking). He had been sober a few years, thankfully.

He had a TON of regrets but he did a lot of reconciliation work in his short (7 weeks from diagnosis to death) time left.

He sincerely asked for my forgiveness-- and I had done a lot of work on it already. I said "You are forgiven" and I meant it.

It was the holiest experience of my life.

Don't wait til you are on your deathbed to say you are sorry. He wasn't able to say it to all those whom he intended to...much was unsaid for them. And unresolved.


I am going to heed your advice 25, it will be easy for me to back off for the next few days at least, and if she reaches out I will be kind and gentle as I have been for her and the kids, and see where it goes from there.

Thanks again for your feedback it's much appreciated :-)

good luck!

[25yearsmlc]

Broken

I MIGHT have posted this piece to you before, and if so, I apologize. But many people, (both men and women) have said it helped them.

So if you've already seen it, it wouldn't hurt to read it again and if not, then definitely see if any of it applies or feels authentic to you....

so here it is--it's from Denver's thread of long ago....and the DB moderator posted it somewhere as a "classic" post.

FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED * WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET, & HOW SHE COULD BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….

"When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than. I even got chills when she talked about the FB issues, because I've been there and done that, bought the t-shirt Of course, my H went a step further and cheated, then left, adding an extra crunchy layer of goodness to my sitch.

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H. Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes.

So, I can see where your W is coming from. When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope.

You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.


And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to win.

Even you today you say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win.

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell."
_______
__________________
Me: 32, H: 32
M: 12 years T: 13 years
No kids

[Broken74]

Thanks Yas and 25, I greatly appreciate all of the valuable feedback.

I appreciate all you guys points and think they are spot on. I found out this weekend by her admission that my W is still engaging with the other man. I've decided that that is unfortunately a deal breaker for me, and told her I will be filing the divorce papers in August. I am done being the fallback for someone who holds 0 respect for me.

So I'm going to continue working on myself, but this one can be considered another marriage to put on the garbage pile. She was so incredibly cold and callous I think it's time for me to admit to myself that I was just a stepping stone and have beeen played this entire time.

Ces't la vie right? I'm going to start another thank you thread that will be last one. I greatly appreciate you guys feedback obviously you both took a lot of time to write it out, and I greatly appreciate that.

25 you may be right in that I was just fighting to win, because either I don't love her enough to continue with all this nonsense or I just don't want to play anymore. I really feel bad for my stepchildren, God only knows how many other men are going to drug through their lives...

Thanks again to all who have read and responded, I wish you more success than me. :-(

[Rick1963]

Why wait till August to file? I'm not saying that you should reconsider, it must be hard to deal with some of her stuff. But why give up on yourself? If you have worked on you than that is a success right?

[Broken74]

Hi Rick, I'm in North Carolina so it can't be filed until the one year separation date. I should have worded my last sentence better, I'm not giving up on myself I will press forward, but I am done trying to do anything to try and reconcile. Basically my W is an adultress and I have to accept that, and she has no ethical problem continuing to try and build a relationship with her affair partner, after putting me through the ringer financially, playing my emotions to avoid the legal ramnifications of the affair for both of them, and just in general being a ridiculously cold, manipulative, cant!

This is like uncovering the affair/bomb day all over again. I am mentally quite squirrely and the only think keeping me from making a pretzel out of this low life Dr. mf she is still dealing with is the fact that I would get locked up immediately.

This entire ordeal has been such a joke from day 1. I am really trying to take a step back and calm down, but it is an extreme challenge. She again mentioned my behavior as being irrational after my getting slightly peeved upon her admitting that she is seeing the original affair partner. So basically not only does she have no remorse for the Affair itself, she is going to continue down that road I'm sure he's met all the kids by now etc.

Not my problem anymore. He can have her. She has a doctors appointment today and I am still concerned about her. I still love her and wish she would change her ways. I personally just cannod deal with this anymore, I am going to either have a heart attack or end up in jail if I continue to go down this road.

She is the WAS from hell... She cleaned up her act during the holidays to milk me for the Chirstmas expenses and put her in a new car, banged me a couple of times then started seeing this douchebag again after the holidays.

I will miss my stepchildren and her, but I won't miss the constant struggle in my head, which I am interested to know when it will stop since I am have came to grips with the fact that this is truly over...

[25yearsmlc]

Broken

if you KNOW it's a deal breaker for you, so be it. Not sure why the particular OM matters so much, but I'm sorry for your pain.

But stop labelling and condemning her behavior.

Truly, It does NOT HELP YOU...


in fact it brings out the worst, most critical & judgemental part of you

and that's part of what you want to conquer in yourself, or so I thought.

My anger consumed me, and didn't help my kids OR my r with my h either. Until I realized that it was hurting me more than anyone else and probably confirming my h's desire to leave...did I really work on it.

Your anger & irritability was a problem you admitted having before you knew of the OM. Why aren't they still problems for you to work on?

You want her to regret her choice, then make sure you stay on course with those changes. Plus you don't want to be here again after R's w/another woman.

The negative mind reading must also stop. You do NOT know what she felt or meant at Christmas.

You don't know how conflicted she was or for how long.


All you know is YOUR part & that's all you can work on.

Why not make that your focus?