hi everyone! newbie here....could this be a MLC?

[Accuray]

From the other thread where you found me:

Accuray, could you elaborate a little bit more about this? This sounds like it could apply a bit to my situation as well. Suppose that the following (quoted portion)is true, what should or can the LBS do to fix this while still following the DB principles?

im having so much trouble with DBing/detaching/ and also 180s since some of the principles seem to contradict at times. i'm trying to detach but at the same time trying to implement changes in response to complaints H has had about me.

when you get a chance, could you also take a quick look at my thread as well? thanks so much!!

The simple explanation would be that he decided to give up instead of facing continued rejection, and is "convincing himself" that he doesn't have feelings for you anymore to free him from not feeling good enough.

What do you think about that? Do you think H "gave up" because he felt his best effort wasn't good enough, that he put himself out there and his level of intimacy wasn't reciprocated?

A few things to be aware of. I read a great book called "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It". In that book, it talks about just how important it is for a man to feel like a good provider. It's an evolutionary, animalistic sort of need. If he feels like he's not being a good provider, because you complain about what he's bringing to the table, then he's going to feel badly about himself. That feeling inadequate will really do a job on him over time and he'll seek to escape that feeling however he can, thrill seeking, etc. It leads to a feeling of being trapped, and he may have needed to escape.

He may fear, now, that he will always feel inadequate with you, and that's what he's running from.
Accuray

From what I've read of your stich I don't think this applies to you, but tell me why you think it does? Maybe that's more important.

From your description, it looks like your situation is better characterized by "pursuer / distancer" or "one up / one down".

This tends to be a longer term relationship dynamic where one partner (the one-down) is insecure in the relationship / pursuing the other and always feels that the other one doesn't really love them.

The pursued partner (the one-up) feels guilty and responsible. They feel the one-down nitpicks them and is always complaining or looking for more, and they're not motivated to give it.

This is a dynamic that, once it sets in, is very hard to shake and tends to create a long term problem in a relationship. The more the one-down pursues, the more the one-up tries to distance, and that leads the one-down to pursue more and neither party can relax.

The example I read in the book is that the one-up will work long hours or do what they can to avoid coming home. The one-down will complain that the one-up didn't call, doesn't care about them, loves work more than they love them, etc. The one-up doesn't enjoy that and will feel persecuted, so they'll stay away even more to avoid the confrontation.

This is often triggered when one person feels they want the other person more than the other person wants them. They try to compensate for that by proving how much they love the other person, and when the other person doesn't reciprocate, they both get frustrated and try harder. It's exhausting for both parties.

If this makes sense to you, I can share some of the things you can do about it, but I don't want to go into all that if this does not characterize your situation, and only you know that.

What should or can the LBS do to fix this while still following the DB principles

A few VERY important points here. What might have worked to fix the relationship BEFORE the bomb dropped will not work now -- while it can be useful to understand the dynamics that lead you here, it's not realistic to address and reverse them now. Your best bet is to follow the DB principles *for now*.

im having so much trouble with DBing/detaching/ and also 180s since some of the principles seem to contradict at times.

Tell me about the contradictions you see and I'll help you with that. The principles should not contradict.

i'm trying to detach but at the same time trying to implement changes in response to complaints H has had about me.

Detach and give space is the most important. On a 10 point scale, that's an 8, and implementing changes in response to H's complaints is a 3.

Why? As humans we like simple cause and effect relationships. If I press the lever, I get a pellet. If H says I don't compliment him enough, then if I start complimenting him he will come back. But then you compliment him and it just makes him angrier or more distant.

Before someone is willing to blow up a relationship, they have to be "way gone". This isn't a casual complaint. By the time they get here, they've gone through a lot of pain, anger, and resentment themselves. That can't be undone now. To them, it will feel like too little too late, and make them even angrier that you didn't do before what seems to be so easy for you now.

It's important for them to see that you've changed, but not that you've changed just so you can have them back.

(I'd like to copy and paste that sentence for you 4 times, but do me a favor and just read it again)

One one of your posts above, you said that you had an R talk with H and pointed out all your changes for him. That's a major no-no, try your very best not to do that again. Telling H anything does nothing for you and usually hurts your case. You need to show him, not tell him, and you need to be consistent.

You have trained H how to think about you and how you will respond. That "training" creates neural pathways in his brain. If you want him to change his perception of you, those pathways need to be broken down and remapped, and that doesn't happen with convincing, it happens with retraining, which is observing consistent behavior over a long period of time.

Therefore, if you're going to make changes, make them for yourself, not for H. Do it because you really believe it will make you a better person and because you want to do it. If H notices great, but if he doesn't that has to be OK too. If H believes you're putting on a show for him, that will be entirely non-believable to him.

You've asked many times if it gets worse before it gets better. The answer is usually yes. Here's why -- people don't like change. You don't like change, and neither does H. If you start acting differently, H won't like it just because it's different. It's confusing and will throw him off base. When you see that, you'll be tempted to conclude that your changes are making things worse, and you'll revert to your prior behavior. The problem is that if you'd given the changes time to be the new "norm", things would have been better than they were before. That's how we get stuck in patterns in relationships, we back off of our changes too early just because of the discomfort of change. You need to go through the dark tunnel first to come out on the other side. This requires faith and strength, and that's why it's so hard.

It's also important to understand what you're going through right now. You are in panic and shock. That leads to manic behavior. You're looking for solutions too quickly and trying too many things at once. I read some interesting research that said that feelings of "love" are directly linked to feelings of being "out of control". When you're dating, you don't know what's going to happen next. You don't know if the other person will call you back, kiss you, or never see you again. It's that "out of control" dynamic that makes you feel in love.

When your spouse rejects you or walks away, you again feel out of control. This makes you feel like you love the other person more than you should. That is a chemical reaction in your brain that you are helpless against, but it doesn't make any logical sense. Why would you feel MORE love for someone who's treating you this way? It's because (1) they've pushed you away and the fact that you can't have them makes you want them more and (2) they've taken away your control of the situation which makes you feel in love. Spend some time thinking about that. In some cases after reconciliation, the LBS wonders why they wanted this person back after the in-control feelings have been restored. This chemical reaction will slowly taper off, and that's why time will help you feel better. Time is your ally, not your enemy.

Right now, H does not want to be responsible for you. If you make him responsible for your feelings or your sadness, he will resent you for it. Everything you say or do needs to be measured against the yardstick of whether it will generate resentment. Be approachable, be friendly, but do NOT discuss your relationship or your feelings, and do not "mope around" and provide visual displays for H of how upset you are. It's time to be an Oscar-winning actress.

What you want to do right now is make H feel out of control. He is vulnerable to the same dynamic. How do you do that? Whatever you used to do, do the opposite. Read the chapter about 180's. Be unpredictable. Appear to be having fun despite the fact that H will expect that you feel badly. Read about "act as if". Finally, read about GAL -- go out and do things that make you attractive and fun to be around. You need to be a "prize to be won". Once you feel that way about yourself, H will too.

Let me know what you think about all this and if there's anything else I can do to help with regard to pursuer / distancer.

Accuray