Can you please help?

[fightForMyHubby5]

Hello,
And thank you for reading. I believe that my H is having a MLC with an A included. I would like to get your help, as I am desperate...

I am 30, he is 31, together for 12 years, married for 3.5. We do not have any children. First sign was when my H turned 30. He was very upset and did not want to celebrate (for the first time). We talked about this issue and he said that everything was fine. After that, he started exercising regularly and having protein shakes. He also changed his diet. The year before he bought a convertible car. He also changed the way he dressed, but not very much.

When I turned 30, I told him that I wanted us to have our first baby. It was something that we had discussed earlier (when we first got engaged and then when we got married) and both of us agreed that we wanted to have our first baby when we were 30. When I brought this issue up, he was very upset and told me that he was not ready yet. I got mad (I know that it was a mistake from my part) and started questioning the reasons he did not want to have a baby. Was it because he didn’t love me enough? Was it because he was just not ready? So, after a week I discussed my concerns with him and after that discussion I told him that I am fine with our decision to wait a little longer.

A month after this he came home one day and told me that he wanted to move out for a few days to “find himself”. He moved in with his parents. I was devastated. Two days after that he sent me an email describing that he has never thought what he wanted to do with his life. He told me that he may wanted to move out of the country. He also told me that all this time we have been together he was just trying to make me happy ignoring his needs, etc.

I thought that he just wanted some space. I tried to give it to him. Two months after separation, I told him that I couldn’t do that anymore. He agreed to move back in. When he came home he was very cold and distant. He didn’t want to touch/kiss/hug me. I was really hurt. It was like I had a stranger in my house. I started snooping. One day I got his iPad and checked his emails. I found some suspicious emails from a girl. I confronted him the next morning and he told me that she was “just a friend”. He cried. I went out for a few hours just to calm down. When I came back he apologised and agreed to try. Nothing changed. On November he moved out again to his parents. We have been separated since.

All this time I have tried to create some distance and to detach. Unfortunately I have found this website in December. I have bought and read both DB and DR books. I am trying really hard to apply the techniques Michelle is suggesting, but I find it difficult since we are not living together. We have contact (every 2-3 days we talk to the phone). We also meet for coffee once a week. He says he does not want to try for R at this moment, but this is not his final decision. So I leave him space, try not to start R talks, although I find it very difficult. There are times were I cannot hold my temper and my anxiety. And when I fall into this, I fall big time ...

So I am writing to you with the following questions:
1. Is this a MLC or just an A?
2. What are the best techniques to use when we are separated?
3. Can I use 2-3 techniques together?

Sorry for the long post, any help will be much appreciated!

[Rick1963]

Welcome and sorry u find yourself here. Post often until u are out of moderation. I'm on my phone and can't post the 37 rules somen will sOon. You must control your temper. Don't worry if he is having an A or MLC. Right now you focus on you. Work out have fun look good at all times. Look and be happy even if you feel depressed. Tell us what complaints did H have about u and the M?

Time is on your side

[fightForMyHubby5]

Thank you Rick,

I was starting to worry that I did something wrong since my posts weren't shown . Do you mean the 37 rules of the 180? I already have them printed out and stuck in my purse

His complains were that:
1. He always was doing everything to please me (I had no idea that he didn't want some of the stuff I wanted together...).
2. I was often dragging him to the shops on Saturday mornings (I agreed not to do that and things were fine).
3. I was getting upset that we did not spend much time together (he works 09:00-18:00 on weekdays and then goes to gym 3 times/week and gets home at 20:30, I finish everyday at 14:30, having plenty of time to go to the gym before he comes home). After discussing this issue we agreed that it is ok for him to go to the gym as it is something that pleases him.
4. That my family was too "traditional". My parents are happy to have us for lunch every 2 Sundays. He didn't like that...

Do you believe that these issues are so important for a couple to D?

I respect his concerns and told him that I am willing to work on them. That was before reading DB and DR, from which I;ve learned that "actions speak louder than words". So I have started working on these issues. I have become more indepenant, going out with friends and rejoined my gym club. I have also joined some new hobbies (being a volunteer and learning italian). Anything to keep me busy in order to take the pressure off him...

[tenbusrider]

Gotcha covered, Rick.

Fight, the good thing that I can tell you is that even though you didn't find this place until after he left the second time, the information is still extremely beneficial.

I'm going to post the 37 rules. You may have already seen them, but if not, these should provide you a guide to traveling what could and probably will be a long, hard road. You're in good company here. Print these rules out, keep them with you, and read them anytime you feel lost or confused.

Post more information, and you're sure to get some thoughtful and hopefully helpful and relevant responses.


1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes

[fightForMyHubby5]

Thank you T for the rules.

So, for now I will need to focus on improving myself. I know that I have some faults that were annoying my H (as I described earlier), so I need to focus on them. I am trying very hard not to snoop and follow his moves (I was doing this all the time, until two weeks ago when I stopped). I have found that I am calmer that way. Need to stick to it...

[fightForMyHubby5]

Journalling.

Last Saturday he came by the house and picked all of his remaining clothes. He didn't take anything else (like his guitar or any other belongings). I arranged something else at the time he was going to the appartment. I knew that if I was there I would appear as needy and maybe crying while watching him.

Once he finished he called me crying asking to meet and talk. I refused to meet as I became very upset. I explained that I preferred to talk from the phone as I felt that if we met we would not be able to talk calmly. He agreed to talk from the phone later that evening. I called him late afternoon. He didn't answer and after a few hours I got a text message apologising for his reaction in the morning and that he preferred we do not talk. I didn't reply.

On Sunday we did not have any contact.

On Monday morning he sent 3 sms and called me asking to meet again. I refused again.

I need time for myself. I need time to find myself and concentrate on improving me.

Is it wrong to turn his invitations down?
Also, did any of you had this kind of reactions from his/her WAS? Do you know of any possible explanation for this behaviour?

[labug]

His complains were that:
1. He always was doing everything to please me (I had no idea that he didn't want some of the stuff I wanted together...).
2. I was often dragging him to the shops on Saturday mornings (I agreed not to do that and things were fine).
3. I was getting upset that we did not spend much time together (he works 09:00-18:00 on weekdays and then goes to gym 3 times/week and gets home at 20:30, I finish everyday at 14:30, having plenty of time to go to the gym before he comes home). After discussing this issue we agreed that it is ok for him to go to the gym as it is something that pleases him.
4. That my family was too "traditional". My parents are happy to have us for lunch every 2 Sundays. He didn't like that...

Do you believe that these issues are so important for a couple to D?

These are symptoms of the problem.

I would guess he feels controlled by you and before you start with the "but..." think about it. I heard similar things and aftr calming down and really looking at our relationship, I could see why he felt that way. Doesn't mean I agree with everything but I understand his feelings.

I think you were OK to not see or talk to him if you felt you weren't ready. It's better to have no contact if you will backslide into pursuing, begging, telling him you've changed. Save the contact for when you are stronger.

Detach. Yes, I know you are separated but you aren't emotionally detached yet. Let him go in your mind.

Dig deep.

Try not to obsess over the past, look to the future and envision the person you want to become.

Read other threads here, you will pickup ideas.

Good luck. Keep posting.

[fightForMyHubby5]

Labug,

thank you for your reply! Your post was a trigger to me. It reminded me some of the complaints he had 1 year ago, when he was saying that I want to have full control of my life and plan everything, while he was more relaxed. Thank you again, I need to work on that!

I am trying to detach, I have stopped snooping and contacting him. The problem is that I am despite the fact that I do not contact him, I am constantly thinking of him, wondering how he is doing. I am not worried whether or not he sees OW, I cannot control his feelings towards either of us. I am just worried if he is ok, if he is better now that I have withdrawn etc... This makes me really sad

[leopoldstotch]

FFMH5, welcome to the best place to be at a time like this! If you are not already seeing a counselor I highly recommend that get yourself to one ASAP.

Time really is on your side and you have a great opportunity to work on yourself and become the person only a fool would leave. I think you did the right thing in not talking to your H when he wanted too clearly you are not ready to talk. I would suggest that the next time he says that he wants to talk and you aren't ready for it that you tell him that you are not ready to talk but that you will when you are ready.

As far as asking whether it's an MLC or just an A really has no bearing on the situation as it's just a label. Please realize that there is nothing you can do about the OW that will eventually run it's course as I'm sure the OW will begin to pressure your H wanting more from him. You are on the right path by no longer snooping as it does nothing but bring you pain.

What are you doing for your GAL activities?

[fightForMyHubby5]

Hi Leopold,

my GAL activities so far are:

1. I have rejoined my gym (I am an athletic person, was working out 3-4 times/week for the last 4 years, but I have stopped due to this situation). I am getting back on track though.
2. I have joined a class to learn italian.
3. I am spending more time with my friends.
4. I am volunteering in some unions.
5. During this time I am staying at my parents' house as I find it easier not to snoop this way.

I have lost a lot of weight and I am now underweight, but I am statring to find my old self. I am gaining some weight.

Sometimes I am so angry for my husband's selfish behaviour that I do not want any relation with him. Other times I am feeling sorry for him and I really want to help him. I know that he has to help himself and that this is not my problem. But there are times where I am getting really sad. I am a "fixer" and this drives me crazy. Is this normal? Sometimes I am afraid that there is nothing left in this relationship...

I do not have anyone to support me through this. All my friends and my family strongly believe that I should get a D. This is my fault as I was telling them everything. Now they have made their mind that he is not good enough and I should stop thinking about him and move on. thank you all for being here for me, as you are my only support in giving me strength to continue fighting...

Regarding seeing a C, I visited one in October for 5-6 times. During our last session he told me that I should get a D. I didn't like that, and that was the last time I visited a C. I am now afraid to try another one. Maybe I will consider it though as from what I am reading in other threads it will be very helpful.